[Aptorian]

Roldom, on 30 October 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

The flood was held back by force fields and the covenent let them out by mistake.

See. That's where things get a bit silly, right?

"Ah, look, the primitive descendants of our dead culture has come to visit us. Oh, they're making a mess. Well, kids will be kids. Oops, they accidentally broke our super advanced containment facilities security measures and let out the single greatest threat ever that destroyed our civilization... uhm... wow, why didn't plan for this during the past 100,000 years."

Why did the Monitor let anyone get anywhere near flood samples in the first place?

How could the relatively primitive covenant break the containment? Why weren't they destroyed or halted before they could cause a catastrophe?

Why didn't the Monitor have counter measures in case of an out break? Like "nuke so and so many miles of ring surface to eradicate the flood" or "Teleport everyone into the sun" or "went the atmosphere", etc. etc. It's just a big plot hole. It would have made more sense if it had been something like one of the space ships ploughs into the ring, maybe it goes critical and creates massive structural damage that unluckily happened to strike one specific section where Flood specimens were being kept for study and before they could be contained the flood spreads to the surviving personel and maybe the Rings biomass. Because of the structural damage the Monitors counter measures fail, cue spread of the flood and things going to hell.

Really, it's the equivalent of the American CDC keeping super small pox viruses in an random beaker on a table where the contents accidentally get spilled because a junkie fall down through the skylight.

Roldom, on 30 October 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

The forrunners do have killer robots but the flood beat them up.

HOW!?! The Monitor would have had hundreds or thousands of years of research and obervations of this galactic extermination I assume was taking place. It would know how dangerous and tough the Flood are and how quickly it spreads. Thus is would have had like a fusion powered forcefield covered death squad of flying flame throwers ready in the millions. AT LEAST. Seriously. It had a 100,000 years to prepare for anything.

Roldom, on 30 October 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

the covenent only find the first halo ring slightly before we follow them there

I'm sure that it gets expanded upon in later games or books, but from the first game it sounds like they know about the rings and they worship them. Even though the Monitors supposedly don't let anyone live to tell of the rings existence.

I guess perhaps the covenant found a ring at some point that was dead and explored it.

By the way though, have you seen the small story segments they inserted into the game via the terminals? I don't think they were a part of the original game but they add a lot of details to the story. It also speaks of old names that were important forerunners. I wonder, do these guys pop up in Halo 2 or 3? Or are they foreshadowing the events of the new trilogy?

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 30 October 2012 - 05:34 PM

[Defiance]

There are 10 terminals in Halo: CE Anniversary. They further explore the history of the Halo universe as well as expanding on some things we learn in 2 and 3. They also seem to be laying out some stuff for Halo 4.

I don't know if you've seen all of the terminals yet. If not, don't watch them until you finish 3, as they are pretty spoiler-filled (you can use YouTube to watch all 10 in a row).

One thing to remember is that the Monitor is bound by the procedures and protocol that the Forerunners designed. This helps explain why 343 was so zealous in his desire to activate Halo. The Forerunners wanted there to be no chance of the Flood overrunning the galaxy. While containing the Flood with what you've listed may have worked, the moment there's a slight malfunction in the defenses is when problems really occur. Had a Reclaimer not been in the proximity of the ring, though, other containment procedures would have been followed. A single Flood spore can destroy an entire species. Of course, the Forerunners made a mistake by not eliminating all of the Flood, given that they decided to keep specimen for 343 Guilty Spark to study in the hopes that a cure/solution to the Flood could be found (none ever was).

The air ducts are for the Monitor and the Sentinels to have quick access throughout Halo's framework. Obviously, this isn't the most effective design.

The Covenant revere the Forerunners, not just the Ring. I'd have to do a little more research as I can't quite remember the answer to this, but I don't believe the Covenant actually found Halo until about the same time as humans. They knew something about them from their worship/discovery of other Forerunner technology, however this was vastly misinterpreted. The Covenant's religion is explored more in later games.

I'm not sure what you mean by the Monitor not being able to observe intelligent life returning around Halo. If you simply mean evolution and the fact of the Covenant/Humanity emerging as forces in the galaxy, one thing to remember is that the galaxy is gigantic. Intelligent life returning isn't even a concern for the Monitor, but I can't really say more as I don't want to spoil anything.

Part of 343's protocol as a monitor of the Halo ring is not to initiate contact with outsiders (an exception being Reclaimers). You learn this in one of the Anniversary terminals.

This post has been edited by Defiance: 30 October 2012 - 06:53 PM

[Aptorian]

Defiance, on 30 October 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

There are 10 terminals in Halo: CE Anniversary. They further explore the history of the Halo universe as well as expanding on some things we learn in 2 and 3. They also seem to be laying out some stuff for Halo 4.

I don't know if you've seen all of the terminals yet. If not, don't watch them until you finish 3, as they are pretty spoiler-filled (you can use YouTube to watch all 10 in a row).

Teah, I recognized that some of the stuff I was seeing was probably meant for people beginning Halo 4 so I didn't look up the ones I missed. Very cool way of fleshing out the universe though.

Defiance, on 30 October 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

One thing to remember is that the Monitor is bound by the procedures and protocol that the Forerunners designed. This helps explain why 343 was so zealous in his desire to activate Halo. The Forerunners wanted there to be no chance of the Flood overrunning the galaxy. While containing the Flood with what you've listed may have worked, the moment there's a slight malfunction in the defenses is when problems really occur. Had a Reclaimer not been in the proximity of the ring, though, other containment procedures would have been followed. A single Flood spore can destroy an entire species. Of course, the Forerunners made a mistake by not eliminating all of the Flood, given that they decided to keep specimen for 343 Guilty Spark to study in the hopes that a cure/solution to the Flood could be found (none ever was).

Yeah, I got from the terminals that the little guy wasn't quite right in the head. Still, less than impressive security in that facility.

Defiance, on 30 October 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean by the Monitor not being able to observe intelligent life returning around Halo. If you simply mean evolution and the fact of the Covenant/Humanity emerging as forces in the galaxy, one thing to remember is that the galaxy is gigantic. Intelligent life returning isn't even a concern for the Monitor, but I can't really say more as I don't want to spoil anything.

Part of 343's protocol as a monitor of the Halo ring is not to initiate contact with outsiders (an exception being Reclaimers). You learn this in one of the Anniversary terminals.

What I meant was that you'd expect a futuristic space travelling race that knows about quantum physics and teleportation and what not, would be able to observe the return of life surrounding the Halo. We have programs like SETI monitoring the sky and looking at planets. You'd think that the Monitor would be doing the same.

[Aptorian]

To change the subject Fez is fucking brilliant. I have no idea how I'm supposed to solve half the hidden secrets and the one that I do have a suspicion about I am too lazy to try and analyze because fuck cracking codes. It is quite satisfying hunting around each level for hidden cubes and passageways though. The world map just keeps expanding and unfolding. I have 20 cubes out of the 30 regular ones so far and maybe a handful of Anti-cubes. I wonder how much more terrain is hidden.

[Aptorian]

A Halo update: Ploughed my way through Halo 2, 3, ODST and am now in the middle of Halo: Reach.

Halo 2 was interesting from a story telling perspective. It's pretty damn ambitious in terms of narration and story. I really liked the opening sequences were you see the celebration of the Master Chief and the fall of the Arbiter. Unfotunately I can't say it was all that succesful most of the time. Maybe I'm supposed to have read some kind of extra material hidden in an old instruction manual but the games are really bad at explaining the worlds set-up. It wasn't until I played ODST (the fourth game in the series) that I understood that Earth was the last remaining planet and mankind was on the brink of extinction.

Even more than Halo: CE I think the second game would benefit from a re-working. Much of the cinematics and dialogue could also benefit from a once-over.

Halo 3 on the other hand was a joy to play. Much more straight forward and fast paced than the first game, coming from 2 to 3 really let me appreciate the jump to the next generation of consoles. The difference between the two games is startling. I can certainly understand why it got such high scores (all though it's certainly not a 10/10 game). It's pretty evident that this was a time when FPS shooters began to change. The game is much shorter but better paced. You can feel how new ideas about what is fun and how a game should play are dominant in this one. Sadly the game is a bit dumber than the second game was and the ending made no sense what so ever. Maybe I was supposed to get some information from the terminals that I could never locate but there wasn't much logic or closure in the ending.

ODST was great. A comepletely different approach to the game. Great characters, great animation, novel story telling approach, not that great ending. I don't know what it is with Halo games and their end game driving sequences. WHY!? The driving in these games suck! Why would you want to end the game on a sour note every time?! I also think the games ending was a bit too happy go lucky. I wonder if this game was supposed to become a spin-off? It certainly has that feel. Like Bungies version of Bad Company. Playing the early segments I think it would be interesting to make a game franchise centered around "CSI" type army investigators that tell the story of a squad/company of soldiers and what they've been through by travelling from area to area analyzing the mess left behind.

So far Reach is great. It feels like more of the same. Just even better.

Still, having played through all but one game now (not counting Halo 4) I have to say the series has its issues. It is RIDICULOUSLY repetitive. 5 games and I'm still fighting the same enemies with the same guns in the same environments in the same architecture with the same abilities. Reach I can see is trying to shake this up a bit but seriously now. Give us some new weapons. Gather some troops from a different part of the galaxy. Develop some new form of warfare that doesn't consist of a dropship putting down a small squad of soldiers again and again and again. Create different kind of super tank than a scarab. How about letting us assault one of those giant battle ships? Or maybe inject a Spartan with a Flood serum that gives him Flood powers. Introduce a new faction... Yeah, I guess I will have to play Halo 4 to see if they are finally breaking the mold but from what I hear this is probably not the case.

I would like a Halo spin-off game that centers on the Arbiter and the civil war I assume has broken out in the covenant realm. I have no interest in reading any of the books so this is the only way I could fore see of the game makers filling out the blanks about what the Covenant is and why they do what they do. From what I can tell they are simply a mass murdering bunch of famatics that decided to stomp on the Human race. I would like a bit more nuance to the game.

EDIT: Also, the anachronistic world building is really starting to bug me. I might be able to believe the game if it took place around the beginning of the 22nd century but this game is supposed to be set in the 26th century. Am I really to believe that mankind is still driving around in jeeps. Manually? On 4 wheels? That we use combat riffles that fire bullets? That we still build cities that look like New Detroit? That people act and talk like they a cardboard cut out from an 80s action movies? That an AI super computer is bigger than a sky-scraper?

EDIT2:

Quote

How about letting us assault one of those giant battle ships?

Just reached such a mission in Reach

This game is pretty damn awesome.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 11 November 2012 - 05:30 PM

[HiddenOne]

just bought myself a console and am playing Halo3 as much as possible over the weekend

[Defiance]

Sucks that you don't like the driving in Halo games. That really does kill a lot of the final sequences. I guess it goes in line with your weird taste in movies.

What didn't make sense to you about the ending of Halo 3?

As for technology, I think this is a problem that most games (and even literature) have and it just requires suspension of disbelief. Take the Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Somehow, in 15 years everything looks so drastically different? Yes, technology advances and may even leap forward at times, but we don't remodel everything in the world each time it does. On a book level, I can even compare it to Malazan. Hundreds of thousands of years and, with a few exceptions, next to no technology has developed (with the explanation more or less being the typical "magic exists, no need for technology" for the most part).

4 does mix quite a bit of stuff up, If you're looking for new guns and some completely new enemies, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

This post has been edited by Defiance: 12 November 2012 - 04:44 PM

[Aptorian]

Defiance, on 12 November 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Sucks that you don't like the driving in Halo games. That really does kill a lot of the final sequences. I guess it goes in line with your weird taste in movies.

There's just so much wrong with the warthog sections.

1. The warthog handles like a drunk hippopotamus on ice.

2. It tips over if the there's so much as a side wind. It's become more forgiving in later games but getting launched out of the car because you hit a tiny bump in the jagged terrain is infuriating. Especially when you are on the clock.

3. The course, at least in the first three games, is anything but straight forward, level or just sane. Everything in the environment seems designed to impede your progress which will make you feel frustrated instead of awesome. Admittedly it's gotten better with each game but I still have mental scars from the first games ending sequence.

And worst of all, which is the part that really annoys me:

3. You have to choose between driving or shooting. You can't do both, like in say Crysis or Borderlands. This is actually realistic and I get that philosophy. What I don't appreciate is that you are then forced to rely on the idiotic AI of your companions. If you put the soldier in the driving seat while you man the turret he'll drive around in circles instead of going for a good vantage point, he'll get stuck in terrain or just simply refuse to move. If you put the soldier in the turret the idiot will shoot at anything and anyone but the thing right in front of you that is launching death from above. He'll waste an entire salvo on one single enemy instead doing a spread to take out a group of enemies and he'll often target the least important aggressor instead of focusing on guys with grenade launchers or the vehicles who can kill you instantly.

Defiance, on 12 November 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

What didn't make sense to you about the ending of Halo 3?

I don't understand what happened at the end of the game.

They find this Ark (How the hell did Earths geologists, archeologists, sattelites and space ships not detect a gigantic, kilometer wide metal circle machine thingy 50 meters below ground right under New Mombasa?!) which takes them to this super Halo thingy that the Forerunners built to control all the Halos. What did it do in the end? They used the under construction Halo ring to kill the Flood but how? Did it kill all the Flood everywhere? Or is the flood still around? If the thingy was capable of only targetting the flood why didn't the forerunners use it instead of committing mass suicide? And while we are at it, why did they commit suicide if life on the Halo's themselves survives the blast from the rings? Why not just leave people on the Halo's to repopulate the galaxy? If the Super Halo did in fact not destroy all the Flood everywhere, then how did Earth survive the coming of the Flood? When Master Chief and Co go to find a solution to the Flood problem, the Flood is heading in mass towards Earth. I am pretty sure the Gravemind arrives through the same portal that Master Chief and Co came through, implying that the Flood has taken Earth. So why didn't everyone on Earth get wiped out/assimilated? While we are at it, what happened to the leadership of the Covenant. The Prophet of Truth obviously went rogue but did all the others die? Or am I right in understanding that they all agreed upon releasing the flood and using the Halo's to kill everything? Who are the Prophets anyway. They seem to be some kind of ruler species, yet they show no fighting prowess which means I have a hard time believing they could maintain superiority in hostile society as the Covenant where the Elites and Brutes seem to rely solely on killing anything that disagrees with them.

Defiance, on 12 November 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

As for technology, I think this is a problem that most games (and even literature) have and it just requires suspension of disbelief. Take the Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Somehow, in 15 years everything looks so drastically different? Yes, technology advances and may even leap forward at times, but we don't remodel everything in the world each time it does. On a book level, I can even compare it to Malazan. Hundreds of thousands of years and, with a few exceptions, next to no technology has developed (with the explanation more or less being the typical "magic exists, no need for technology" for the most part).

Yeah, Deus Ex: HR was really bad about this. But seriously, how hard is it to just make rational guess at when we should be at certain technological levels. Helicopters and machine guns in the 26 century is absurd. Maybe if it was something like a Human colony ship was sent from Earth in 50 years and landed on Reach 400 years later I might be able to understand things but the anachronistic relics really make little sense to me.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 12 November 2012 - 05:23 PM

[Defiance]

1) Simplest explanation is that the Forerunners used some of their advanced technology to hide the portal to the Ark (the Ark itself is the big installation you see at the end of the game that constructs the Halo rings) until such a time as humans would be ready to use it. This would be once they started discovering the remnants of Forerunner civilization, at some point finding enough information to lead them to the portal and then the Ark itself (rather than just stumbling upon it by happenstance at some point).

2) The Gravemind went straight through the portal to the Ark with High Charity. He didn't even bother stopping at Earth. This is because he absolutely did not want the Rings to fire - had he spent his time wiping out Earth, Truth could have fired the rings and he and all of the Flood under his command would be gone.

3) Life does not survive on the Halo rings after they fire. The Halo rings are not capable of targeting only Flood. They destroy all life.

4) The Prophets were the Covenant's religious leaders, whereas the Elites (later the Brutes, until Truth's death) were the Covenant's war leaders. Brutes are, as their name implies, stupid and brutish, but the Elites follow a very strict code of valor/honor. The Covenant believed that the Forerunners were gods and all Forerunner artifacts were sacred, thus their genocidal campaign against the humans (first contact was initiated when the Covenant found a human colony on a world with Forerunner artifacts). Religious zealotry goes a long way. Also, it's worth noting before you play Halo 4 that, even with the three Prophets dead, there's still a large faction of the Covenant that refuses to follow the Arbiter's lead and give up their religion.

5) There are definitely still Flood in the galaxy. The Gravemind and all of his buds on High Charity were destroyed when Installation 04 2.0 fired/exploded, but it's almost certain that there are other Flood out there - if not actual combat forms, then spores at the very least. It's possible that there are still Flood in containment on the other rings, not to mention there may be Flood beyond this galaxy. So, should someone break containment on one of the other rings, there could be another Flood outbreak.


As for the technology, as I said you're absolutely right. It doesn't make any sense. It's one of this instances where gameplay trumps story, as vehicles in the 26th century would be able to take a hell of a beating (and, as a result, be next to impossible to destroy in multiplayer games).

This post has been edited by Defiance: 12 November 2012 - 05:44 PM