[twelve]

Sorry for the delay. The forum was still down for me for a bit when I got to work. Looks like it's all better now.

Fall 1907 Adjustments

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Spring 1908 Movement

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Deadline for movement orders

Friday March 22nd

Lets be early this time folks. I have to leave work early to make it to my brother's wedding on Friday and I'll be out all weekend visiting family so if you aren't early then you will have to wait until my Sunday evening but most likely my Monday morning for resolution. That's almost Tuesday for a couple of you so chop chop folks.

This post has been edited by twelve: 19 March 2013 - 03:15 PM

[twelve]

FYI slackers. The deadline is tomorrow early (for me). For those of you who are usually late make sure you get your orders in ASAP. Though we will find out if EM phone has died if he can't get his orders in and then we will push it back to Tuesday for the extention that he requested.

[Tapper]

Hi guys. I have been looking into the options of ending the game.

Basically, what we have now, is that EM (8) + Gnaw (1) + myself (9) hold slightly more than half of the centres (18). You have 16 (Russia 4, Italy 6, Austria 6).
Any antics in switching sides or stabs aside we will probably arrive at stalemate lines that will maybe shift a centre or two but not much more. Stabbing is in most cases counterproductive.

I looked at it, and the best placed to do it is EM as his three home centres are unoccupied. Hol + Ber + Bel would net him three builds and then completely collapses his position as my disbands would be giving Italy card blanche or giving Twelve a shitload of territory to overrun.
If Germany stabs, it will then be overrun from the east. Plus, it has nowhere to even build an extra unit.
Russia can gain 1 build but who's to say it actually helps them?
Italy cannot stab as there are no unoccupied centres next to them. Plus, where would they build?
Twelve cab stab for 2 or 3 (depending on how he moves) but that collapses Italy and would gain me a lot of air - and I'd outfleet him easily making me the winner of that move.
I cannot stab (Kiel excepted, but that would lose me Munich and EM would retaliate very swiftly with bigger losses).

So, stabbing/betrayal doesn't make sense. Now, any maneuvering to be done will maybe shift 1-3 centres at best.
So what we have now, is that our slight majority could become at worst a slight minority, or your slight minority becomes a slight majority at best, or a slightly smaller minority.

We'd be playing months for that. Since half of the original players are already out of it, whether by elimination or because they had to give up, starting a new game might actually give the replacements more than a hopeless task. So, what about calling it a game as a tie?

[Bonecaster]

Works for me. I'd love to be in on a new game.

[twelve]

Yeah my bid to get EM to stab Tapper failed miserabley. I'd be down with calling this game a draw. I misplaced my flash drive with the JDip file somewhere at home yesterday anyway so I couldn't resolve even if I wanted to.

[Gnaw]

agree

[twelve]

So that is 4 of the 6.

EM, Goat what are your thougths on calling a draw?

[EmperorMagus]

twelve, on 22 March 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

So that is 4 of the 6.

EM, Goat what are your thougths on calling a draw?

I do not like draws.
But there is no other option with everyone wanting draws.
Dammit.

[twelve]

EmperorMagus, on 22 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

twelve, on 22 March 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

So that is 4 of the 6.

EM, Goat what are your thougths on calling a draw?

I do not like draws.
But there is no other option with everyone wanting draws.
Dammit.

Well we don't have to have a draw..... There are options after all....

[goatkiller666]

I'm not 100% convinced that it's a draw... I can sense very very slow progress down in the med. Combined with my team very slowly losing ground up in Russia. But, that'll likely turn into a draw in like 10 turns, so we can just call it now and start a new one fresh.

[Tapper]

goatkiller666, on 25 March 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

I'm not 100% convinced that it's a draw... I can sense very very slow progress down in the med. Combined with my team very slowly losing ground up in Russia. But, that'll likely turn into a draw in like 10 turns, so we can just call it now and start a new one fresh.

I have been looking into stalemate options that are a guaranteed hold, and I am fairly convinced I can pull one off much quicker than 10 turns, really - especially if I don't mind losing Tunis in the process. It would involve switching my fleets around in some silly rotation, but as long as I can do that on pace with you taking Tys, that would quite probably succeed.

[twelve]

Well it sounds like everyone is in agreement.

Diplomacy 2012-2013 ends officially in a Draw.

[twelve]

I'd be down with playing again but I would probably need about a month off and that is probably how long it's going to take for me to get killed all the way off in mafia anyway. If I mod again I'm thinking I would instill a rule changet to help speed the game up. A three strikes and your orders get submitted as hold orders if you are late policy. What are people's thoughts?

[Tapper]

twelve, on 25 March 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'd be down with playing again but I would probably need about a month off and that is probably how long it's going to take for me to get killed all the way off in mafia anyway. If I mod again I'm thinking I would instill a rule changet to help speed the game up. A three strikes and your orders get submitted as hold orders if you are late policy. What are people's thoughts?

Very tough, as a lot of moves rely on the interaction between players.
I'd say it is better to set a limit of at most 1 week for a move, friday to friday, no extensions, same length every week. If your order is not in, all your units support the nearest unit you control, clockwise, regardless of whether or not that move is legal. No replacements for players, either: I guess it was a pretty rough deal for some of the replacements to come in and be fucked from the start.

I guess it also helps if everyone just opens the conversation and partially submits moves, then edits that post as he goes. That way, you can submit your own attack into someone elses territory while you wait and co-ordinate your defense with your ally, or vice versa.

[twelve]

I can get behind most of what you are saying Tapper. I like the Friday-Friday deadline though I was thinking more Wednesday-Wednesday as another option. Your suggestions of ordering support to your own units is a better option that just ordering them to hold. I'd probably want to tweek how to determine what gets supported though as your suggestion would probably benefit certain powers over others. Maybe support the nearest legal support with order of priority going to the unit adjacent to the most "enemy" troops but then there might have to be judgement calls on the mods end that we probably want to avoid.

[Gnaw]

I'm interested in another game. I'll do some digging around the intertubes and see if I can find a method or two for handling firm deadlines.

One idea that pops off my head so is fully crazy and has zero thought behind it. Have a dip knowledgeable non-player make "best defensive orders" for the person. That would have to be a unanimous decision before the game began of course.

[goatkiller666]

Tapper, on 25 March 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

I have been looking into stalemate options that are a guaranteed hold, and I am fairly convinced I can pull one off much quicker than 10 turns, really - especially if I don't mind losing Tunis in the process. It would involve switching my fleets around in some silly rotation, but as long as I can do that on pace with you taking Tys, that would quite probably succeed.

Yeah, if you're aiming for a stalemate, it's totally possible. If that's the case, then just tell us ahead of time so we can start a new game first.

[goatkiller666]

So... have we decided to take a month off before we start the next cycle?

I'm seriously in favor of the Every Friday deadline idea. And I like the concept of having generic "support your own stuff" actions for people missing. However, one of the things that's best about the current form of "any one of these folks can process the turn" is that there's no decision-making involved in that. Not that I think people would fudge stuff in favor of their team, if they had to invent a player's action on the fly... I just think that we're asking a whole new level of commitment from the turn processors, with the added problem of now players who miss a turn could come back and say "Hey, why didn't you have my guys support me THIS way?" Like it's the processors' job to spend a long time making sure that they're thinking of the BEST possible self-supporting defensive stance each turn.

I'd rather that missing a turn be a serious mistake, resulting in all of your forces being at a big disadvantage. So... you know... don't miss. (And if you have to, say something and all the players will probably be cool with giving an extension. Or... you know... submit your turn earlier than the last minute.)

Anyway, I'm not one of those who would process, so I guess mostly it's a question of how much effort you guys are willing to put into it. But that's my $2.50. ($0.02 plus inflation.)

[twelve]

I'm not interested in playing again until this mind fuck of a mafia game is done. So as soon as I'm dead and gone or the game ends, whichever comes first, I'll open up another sign up thread. I'll Set down restrictions such as no substitutes, 1 strike policy every Friday Deadline, after strike support nearest own unit in a to be determined pattern if orders are late. If someone wants to open up a signup thread earlier than that feel free. If someone else wants to mod I'm okay with that as well.

[Gnaw]

twelve said:

1364768379[/url]' post='1044018']
I'm not interested in playing again until this mind fuck of a mafia game is done. So as soon as I'm dead and gone or the game ends, whichever comes first, I'll open up another sign up thread. I'll Set down restrictions such as no substitutes, 1 strike policy every Friday Deadline, after strike support nearest own unit in a to be determined pattern if orders are late. If someone wants to open up a signup thread earlier than that feel free. If someone else wants to mod I'm okay with that as well.

Yeah, the mafia game is a tad intensive.