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Dresden Files Incoming, unpopular opinion on the horizon.

#81 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:56 AM

You can tell where the Vampirism actually takes over. Her eyes go all black and she thrashes around trying to bite him, well after she consented.

If I'm recalling the scene correctly. I'll have to go over it when I get home since its been a couple months since I've read that one.

Edit -> Because I wrote 'trashes' instead of 'thrashes'. And it looked dumb.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 19 September 2012 - 09:02 AM

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#82 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:45 AM

View PostShiara, on 19 September 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:


I guess I'm again in the 1% in your broad generalisations, as I can’t say I’ve ever “fantasised” about a musician or actor (with the notable exception of imagining meeting Orlando Bloom on a plane – just conversation, mind you, none of that mile-high club stuff). Almost any actor I've admired in a more-than-professional sense has been primarily for things like their eyes and smile. Granted, they've generally been otherwise physically attractive, but it's the eyes and smile that get me. I don't see how either of those features translate directly to sex. Mostly I bring this up as an example to say that EVERY WOMAN IS DIFFERENT. They don't all go gaga about arms or abs - I have a friend who always checks out a guy's hands and teeth first, of all things.


Shiara, all those things you mention are physical traits. They are therefore linked to the sexual by virtue of simply being PHYSICAL traits and not mental ones (sense of humour). Whether or not you wish to admit that your "looking at the eyes and smile first" is an attraction feature and therefore inherently sexual in base nature is totally up to you.

And yeah, every woman IS different, but you just described yourself and a friend both being attracted to physical traits of men. That's a pheromone level response. You look at their body and find things you are attracted to...that is a sexual reaction...just not one you wish to qualify as one because it doesn't concern the genitals....meanwhile you are trying to differentiate yourself from someone who finds "arms" attractive by saying "eyes and smile" get you...I'm sorry...how are arms more or less a sexual attraction than eyes or smile? None of them are genitalia.
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#83 User is offline   Use Of Weapons 

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:18 PM

Hmm, I think I come down on Shiara's side here. A smile is not just a physical thing in the way a pair of biceps are. And they say the eyes are the windows to the soul for a reason -- they are not purely physical. Both eyes and smile can convey emotion. I don't think I've seen an arm (or a leg, or a set of abs) look happy, carefree, moody, or joyous.

This post has been edited by Use Of Weapons: 19 September 2012 - 12:19 PM

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#84 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:23 PM

Oh and my "broad generalizations" are not just being spouted willy nilly by me...if they were as broad as you profess, then stuff like SEX & THE CITY, 50 SHADES, TWILIGHT, TRUE BLOOD, VAMPIRE DIARIES ect. wouldn't be the worldwide phenomenons they are with women.
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#85 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:35 PM

View PostUse Of Weapons, on 19 September 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Hmm, I think I come down on Shiara's side here. A smile is not just a physical thing in the way a pair of biceps are. And they say the eyes are the windows to the soul for a reason -- they are not purely physical. Both eyes and smile can convey emotion. I don't think I've seen an arm (or a leg, or a set of abs) look happy, carefree, moody, or joyous.


Smile or arms. The result is the same. Attraction to something other than mental.

I was talking on a chemical level. It's still sexual attraction most of the time, otherwise what is the point right? Why does your mind react to a physical body part (regardless of what that part is or what it is doing)? Whether it's by the brain chemistry or the body chemistry, a reaction to another person's physical features is still a facet of attraction.

Basically read this psychology article. http://www.psycholog...ho-are-good-you

It explains what I am talking about. There are other studies out there, but anyone who says that "physical attraction to features" isn't the first thing they notice in a room full of people really DOES seem to be in a very small percentage on the planet. Not to say they don't exist, and Shiara you may very likely be that way (and there is nothing wrong with that), but the numbers I'm talking about aren't a lie or made up they are just the average. Being outside that average doesn't make it any less true though.

I don't mean any of this to sound nasty mind you. My younger brother is a psychologist and we've had discussions about this.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 19 September 2012 - 01:37 PM

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#86 User is offline   Use Of Weapons 

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:24 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 19 September 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

View PostUse Of Weapons, on 19 September 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Hmm, I think I come down on Shiara's side here. A smile is not just a physical thing in the way a pair of biceps are. And they say the eyes are the windows to the soul for a reason -- they are not purely physical. Both eyes and smile can convey emotion. I don't think I've seen an arm (or a leg, or a set of abs) look happy, carefree, moody, or joyous.


Smile or arms. The result is the same. Attraction to something other than mental.

I was talking on a chemical level. It's still sexual attraction most of the time, otherwise what is the point right? Why does your mind react to a physical body part (regardless of what that part is or what it is doing)? Whether it's by the brain chemistry or the body chemistry, a reaction to another person's physical features is still a facet of attraction.

Basically read this psychology article. http://www.psycholog...ho-are-good-you

It explains what I am talking about. There are other studies out there, but anyone who says that "physical attraction to features" isn't the first thing they notice in a room full of people really DOES seem to be in a very small percentage on the planet. Not to say they don't exist, and Shiara you may very likely be that way (and there is nothing wrong with that), but the numbers I'm talking about aren't a lie or made up they are just the average. Being outside that average doesn't make it any less true though.

I don't mean any of this to sound nasty mind you. My younger brother is a psychologist and we've had discussions about this.


Well, I tried to read it, but I got to this paragraph:


Quote

Even though we may be adults, all of us have unresolved childhood hurts due to betrayal, anger, manipulation or abuse. Unconsciously, we seek healing through our partner. And we try to achieve this healing by bonding with someone who we sense might hurt us in similar ways to how we were hurt as children, in the hope that we can convince him or her to finally love and accept us.

Our conscious self is drawn to the positive qualities we yearn for, but our unconscious draws us to the qualities which remind us of how we were wounded the most.



And basically gave up on it from then on. Seriously, are you really pretending that this is science?
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#87 User is offline   King Lear 

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:21 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 19 September 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

View PostShiara, on 19 September 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

I guess I'm again in the 1% in your broad generalisations, as I can't say I've ever "fantasised" about a musician or actor (with the notable exception of imagining meeting Orlando Bloom on a plane – just conversation, mind you, none of that mile-high club stuff). Almost any actor I've admired in a more-than-professional sense has been primarily for things like their eyes and smile. Granted, they've generally been otherwise physically attractive, but it's the eyes and smile that get me. I don't see how either of those features translate directly to sex. Mostly I bring this up as an example to say that EVERY WOMAN IS DIFFERENT. They don't all go gaga about arms or abs - I have a friend who always checks out a guy's hands and teeth first, of all things.


Shiara, all those things you mention are physical traits. They are therefore linked to the sexual by virtue of simply being PHYSICAL traits and not mental ones (sense of humour). Whether or not you wish to admit that your "looking at the eyes and smile first" is an attraction feature and therefore inherently sexual in base nature is totally up to you.

And yeah, every woman IS different, but you just described yourself and a friend both being attracted to physical traits of men. That's a pheromone level response. You look at their body and find things you are attracted to...that is a sexual reaction...just not one you wish to qualify as one because it doesn't concern the genitals....meanwhile you are trying to differentiate yourself from someone who finds "arms" attractive by saying "eyes and smile" get you...I'm sorry...how are arms more or less a sexual attraction than eyes or smile? None of them are genitalia.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. (Particularly in a conversation which is about looking at people, who may or may not be close enough to sniff)

View PostQuickTidal, on 19 September 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Oh and my "broad generalizations" are not just being spouted willy nilly by me...if they were as broad as you profess, then stuff like SEX & THE CITY, 50 SHADES, TWILIGHT, TRUE BLOOD, VAMPIRE DIARIES ect. wouldn't be the worldwide phenomenons they are with women.


And that's just fucking offensive. There is plenty of mindless crap that I personally sneer at too which is predominately aimed at men and popular, but that doesn't mean I generalise all men based on it.
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#88 User is offline   Vengeance 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:42 AM

You guys lost me when this stopped being about Dresden. He is cool the books are freaking awesome if people like weird rape shit they can go read Goodkind and 50 shades.
How many fucking people do I have to hammer in order to get that across.
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#89 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:11 AM

I used pheremones to mean a chemical aspect in the biology, not actual pheremones...you might want to notice that is why I used the phrase "pheremone level" AKA biological reactionary level. sorry if that was unclear.

And yes, it's fucking offensive to point out that vast swathes of women across the planet clearly enjoy sexual discussion, fantasy about men, and get turned on by certain traits and things physically...without feeling fucking bad about it. Yep. Offensive. No, I'm just pointing out that there are clearly large selections of women on earth who do like that sort of thing, otherwise they wouldn't be the phenomenon that they are. SEX & THE CITY the film grossed $415 MILLION worldwide. That's a lot of theatre tickets. And those women like the subject matter in that story. 50 SHADES is the current like 3 top bestsellers. No not everyone reads or views that stuff...

But me pointing that out that a large number do is offensive. Right. Good, I'm glad we got that sorted.

It's pretty strange how offended you are and that you ASSUME that I'm generalizing about ALL women. Did you care to read the whole thread? I was bringing to attention the fact that when a book represents a male who sees women in a sexual way in his head (in this case Dresden) that there are plenty of female counterparts to this feature of character in fiction. I also pointed out that in real life lots of women do the same thing, as many as do men I'd expect. It's obviously not a feature of every person, but it's a large enough quotient of humanity to make it a popular theme in books, tv, movies and magazines. How that all of the sudden paints me as the bad guy who just called all women on the planet "Carrie from sex and the city" I haven't a clue. Like I said, please read the whole discussion first.

But whatever. If you felt the need to go off about it, I'm okay with being the heavy bag. Have at it.
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#90 User is offline   20 Days of Sheep 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:53 AM

Hell yeah QT is the punching bag! Lol

I'd just say to not read anymore of the books if it's conjuring up this much questionable stuff to someone. I ll keep reading them myself.
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#91 User is offline   Shiara 

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:27 AM

I'd like to thank Worrywort and others for their reasoned and thoughtful responses. Honestly, I feel better about that scene having heard others' perspectives and interpretations, and I realise I may have read it in a way that was different to the intent of the author. I will be the first to admit that I am sensitive on the subject of rape, and it unfortunately has coloured my view of the aforementioned scene. I'm actually kinda sad that I missed out due to personal issues that may have skewed my perceptions and lessened my enjoyment of the book.
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