[Asharak]

"Any changes to our existing notions of the Tiste "history" that contradict or are different from the legends and myths we've heard so far are fine by me - goes well with characters in MBotF having different conflicting knowledge because the "known" history of these events in their time is sparse and not always accurate.

On the other hand, there are characters in MBotF who actually lived through these events, so things happening here with one character that contradict the very same character's own memories of the event in MBotF is a bitter harder to swallow... though in some cases I could see some very interesting explanations for the differences"





Cases of the first point is completely fine by me, it adds some extra juice to reading the story. Cases of the second point would be really lazy though, and it messes with the world building. It's always cool when we get to know more about the past and important characters from it in MBOTF, like the Tiste Andii flash-backs in TTH and such. If even the flash-backs that are memories end up as pretty much bullshit, then it hurts the integrity of the story though. It's not particularly cool to learn about the past in MBOTF from Anomader, Silchas Ruin and others if it's completely overwritten in this new trilogy.

That being said, as long as "Forge of Darkness" and the following two books are good, I can forgive a lot of errors.

This post has been edited by Asharak: 24 July 2012 - 07:11 PM

[Cougar]

Spoiler

OK, I'm going to step up an do something I've rarely done in the past and defend Steve. WRT the Osserc/Sheltatha etc mistake. What happened with the sisters being older than Osserc was a mistake, we know that from what Hetan has told us and we know Steve was aware of it and considered it during the editing process. However there is an easy way that both what transpires in FoD and the previous conversations between the sisters and Osserc can be true and consistent. They may simply view Osserc and Tiam a their draconic parents (this would tie in with Baruk's tree better), rather than their actual parents. This could be semi-religious or merely about them becoming dragons. We do, after all, call priests father and they aren't your Dad.

[Kanese S's]

Silk, on 23 July 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

however the long life line post Kharkanas could be the Tiste stubborness against shuffling the mortal coil so to speak as they are aware nothing awaits them after MD turns.... thats not to say that they don't have insane life cycles as it is without this

I like this idea.

[Abalieno]

Cougar, on 24 July 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

Spoiler

OK, I'm going to step up an do something I've rarely done in the past and defend Steve. WRT the Osserc/Sheltatha etc mistake. What happened with the sisters being older than Osserc was a mistake, we know that from what Hetan has told us and we know Steve was aware of it and considered it during the editing process. However there is an easy way that both what transpires in FoD and the previous conversations between the sisters and Osserc can be true and consistent. They may simply view Osserc and Tiam a their draconic parents (this would tie in with Baruk's tree better), rather than their actual parents. This could be semi-religious or merely about them becoming dragons. We do, after all, call priests father and they aren't your Dad.

There's certainly something weird going on with Tiam. If you reread the part in MT it is evident since it's mentioned Tiam caught in a cycle of death and rebirth. I don't know if this expanded in books 6+, but it can't seem to be explained in natural terms.

They also accuse Osserc of fu***ng his sister (reminds me ASOIAF), so it's definitely weird.

[joshbhoy]

On a re-read of the series and im on MT just now and came across this passage when Osserc is talking to his daughters during one of Udinass's visions. Page 270 ish UK paper back Midnight Tides

He paused then to eye his daughters speculatively and said, "Heed this as a warning, my dears. Mother Dark's first children where spawned without need of any sire. And, despite what Anomander might claim, they were not Tiste Andii


"we did not know this Menandore said."

"Well, now you do. Tread softly, children."

Just thought id add this as it seens to be a little teaser that backs up what Pat said about the Tiste being one race and about Mother Dark being a regular Tiste.

As far as I can remember its the only mention of them not being Tise Andii to begin with.

I will look out for any more during my re-read!

[Kanese S's]

Abalieno, on 25 July 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

Cougar, on 24 July 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

Spoiler

OK, I'm going to step up an do something I've rarely done in the past and defend Steve. WRT the Osserc/Sheltatha etc mistake. What happened with the sisters being older than Osserc was a mistake, we know that from what Hetan has told us and we know Steve was aware of it and considered it during the editing process. However there is an easy way that both what transpires in FoD and the previous conversations between the sisters and Osserc can be true and consistent. They may simply view Osserc and Tiam a their draconic parents (this would tie in with Baruk's tree better), rather than their actual parents. This could be semi-religious or merely about them becoming dragons. We do, after all, call priests father and they aren't your Dad.

There's certainly something weird going on with Tiam. If you reread the part in MT it is evident since it's mentioned Tiam caught in a cycle of death and rebirth. I don't know if this expanded in books 6+, but it can't seem to be explained in natural terms.

They also accuse Osserc of fu***ng his sister (reminds me ASOIAF), so it's definitely weird.

Well, that's not exactly uncommon in mythology.

[pat5150]

Okay, since things seem to have taken a turn for the negative and I want to see you guys excited again, here are a few mild spoilers that won't take anything away from the overall reading experience:

Spoiler

A few characters you may or may not be expecting:

Gothos
Hood
Queen of Dreams
Errastas
Caladan Brood

There is an hitherto unknown race called the Azathanai, the people who were never born.

Only a few more days before FoD hits the shelves!

Patrick

[BlackMoranthofDoom]

If the series takes place before the existence of Holds and before the Eleint, does that mean that sorcery has not yet been established?

[Raker]

pat5150, on 25 July 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

Okay, since things seem to have taken a turn for the negative and I want to see you guys excited again, here are a few mild spoilers that won't take anything away from the overall reading experience:

Spoiler

A few characters you may or may not be expecting:

Gothos
Hood
Queen of Dreams
Errastas
Caladan Brood

There is an hitherto unknown race called the Azathanai, the people who were never born.

Only a few more days before FoD hits the shelves!

Patrick

Azathanai were mentioned several times in MBotF, for example by Draconus and Yedan: "So spoke the Azathanai in the dust of their quarries" in DoD.
Only one character from the list is a real suprise for me. I guess

Spoiler

this Queen of Dreams is not T'riss?

This post has been edited by Raker: 25 July 2012 - 02:03 PM

[waylander001]

Abalieno, on 25 July 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

Cougar, on 24 July 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

Spoiler

OK, I'm going to step up an do something I've rarely done in the past and defend Steve. WRT the Osserc/Sheltatha etc mistake. What happened with the sisters being older than Osserc was a mistake, we know that from what Hetan has told us and we know Steve was aware of it and considered it during the editing process. However there is an easy way that both what transpires in FoD and the previous conversations between the sisters and Osserc can be true and consistent. They may simply view Osserc and Tiam a their draconic parents (this would tie in with Baruk's tree better), rather than their actual parents. This could be semi-religious or merely about them becoming dragons. We do, after all, call priests father and they aren't your Dad.

There's certainly something weird going on with Tiam. If you reread the part in MT it is evident since it's mentioned Tiam caught in a cycle of death and rebirth. I don't know if this expanded in books 6+, but it can't seem to be explained in natural terms.

They also accuse Osserc of fu***ng his sister (reminds me ASOIAF), so it's definitely weird.

You probably wont ever understand Tiams whole "cycle of death and rebirth" thing until you read the last book - it's pretty fucking cool, but suffice to say T-iam is a lot more than you think

[Kanese S's]

BlackMoranthofDoom, on 25 July 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

If the series takes place before the existence of Holds and before the Eleint, does that mean that sorcery has not yet been established?

Not necessarily. After all, before the holds, there was... wandering....

[kcf]

BlackMoranthofDoom, on 25 July 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

If the series takes place before the existence of Holds and before the Eleint, does that mean that sorcery has not yet been established?

yes and no. That's part of the fun of this book - watching some of it happen for the first time.