[Rashan]

D, on 06 July 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 06 July 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

D, on 06 July 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

The Ninja kill of Kaschan happened before the lynch.

Serc, on 05 July 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Aha! So it was YOU Kaschan all along. You lead to my sisters death! PREPARE TO DIE!

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Barghast, on 06 July 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

I shouldn't have asked. I feel more confused. No offense to you Emur. If you are the original Eloth, were you and Fener working together to do whatever it was that broke the sphere? You're claiming town I assume.

No, we weren't.
I think Serc's CF as Serc the Bahamudite is dead. He was Mekin Zikulka, the Eager Ninja was enough to explain the death of Serc/Fener myself.

Fener (the one in SH) claimed he was Serc and that someone took him over.
look at the first posts by Fener on the game thread. Gibberish. AKA: FM who knows he is going to jump and don't want to show his posting style.

So, Fener the FM jumps into Serc, Serc dies as Fener (the one now in SH), and during the jump ninja'ed me.
So, the original Fener aceless Man jumped into Serc AND ninja'ed me. AS PER HIS ROLE TITLE. We died, he played on as Serc.

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Liosan, on 06 July 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

If Cult has a FM and a recruiter does that not seem grossly overpowered?

No. Because the FM is a ninja as per his role ability. He uses that action, he dies a cycle afterwards. Then he has to sit out an X amount of time (my prediction: 1 return per cycle, this may be the ability of a player but my pet theory now is that we return in order of dying, one at a time, meaning Fener is next to return, then Kalse in the next 2 days).
But anyhow, cult will at no point will have voting majority and that Spectre thread is going to be a massive, massive boon to town if used correctly.

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Liosan, on 06 July 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

So, the player that talks gibberish is the FM, and jumped into Serc, after having killed Eloth from Fener's alt? Yes? Shouldn't he still be jumping then? What stopped him?

Edit: We are cross-posting. Don't bitch about my timing.

He is a ninja. Ninja die when they kill.
In this case, he's a ninja-fm, imnsho. AKA: he jumps into another alt, kills someone using the description of the alt he came from (the ninja persona in scene 1, who was then told to not be a professional killer) llives for a cycle as his new alt, then dies. The town vs scum ratio is 2 town deaths for 1 scum death, good deal for scum.

If he comes back, he can do this again, and if he manages to do so before we + SH can lynch him, he can do this trick again. You need to think outside of the box in this game. Returning to thread is seriously messing with normal assumptions and power levels and opens up a whole bag of tricks.

I don't think that the FM is in SH. I think that he did the exact same thing on day 2 that he did on day 1. He jumped and killed before the end of day again. Why did no one else pick up on this? Emur saying that the ninja has to sit out a period of time does not jive with what we have seen so far this game. I would really like to know how and why emur thinks that the FM is in SH. If past FM's are anything to go off of I would say that the FM accidentally jumped into the cult recruit from day one. A FM's CF when he jumps usually comes up as his newest alts correct CF. For those of you who are asswipes it works like this

FM A jumps into player B. A is now dead but his CF shows up as player B.

so based on that I think that we have to assume that the FM is still on the thread. Unfortunately since I think that the FM jumped into the cult recruit. I don't think that the player who is now in the serc alt in SH is going to be willing to tell us which alt he was in previous.

so you think the FM is an independent player?

No I don't I think that the FM is cult, I also think that the FM is not in SH and is still alive here. I am very curious why Emurlahn thinks that the FM has to wait a day before being able to jump and kill again. When based off of what happened on the first two days it looks like he moved during the day. I think that the Serc who is in sh was probably the recruit from monday. So what we need to look for is a slight change in posting style because the FM managed to hide his posting style on day one by rping that crazy posting style of Feners then take over serc who didn't have a lot of posts to compare, so today will be the first time that we will be able to figure out the FM jump based off of posting style.

Got any suspected Faceless Men?

Remove Vote

[Rashan]

Also, PS, if you're here, can we get a time update please?

[D'riss]

Rashan, on 06 July 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

D, on 06 July 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 06 July 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

D, on 06 July 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

The Ninja kill of Kaschan happened before the lynch.

Serc, on 05 July 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Aha! So it was YOU Kaschan all along. You lead to my sisters death! PREPARE TO DIE!

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Barghast, on 06 July 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

I shouldn't have asked. I feel more confused. No offense to you Emur. If you are the original Eloth, were you and Fener working together to do whatever it was that broke the sphere? You're claiming town I assume.

No, we weren't.
I think Serc's CF as Serc the Bahamudite is dead. He was Mekin Zikulka, the Eager Ninja was enough to explain the death of Serc/Fener myself.

Fener (the one in SH) claimed he was Serc and that someone took him over.
look at the first posts by Fener on the game thread. Gibberish. AKA: FM who knows he is going to jump and don't want to show his posting style.

So, Fener the FM jumps into Serc, Serc dies as Fener (the one now in SH), and during the jump ninja'ed me.
So, the original Fener aceless Man jumped into Serc AND ninja'ed me. AS PER HIS ROLE TITLE. We died, he played on as Serc.

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Liosan, on 06 July 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

If Cult has a FM and a recruiter does that not seem grossly overpowered?

No. Because the FM is a ninja as per his role ability. He uses that action, he dies a cycle afterwards. Then he has to sit out an X amount of time (my prediction: 1 return per cycle, this may be the ability of a player but my pet theory now is that we return in order of dying, one at a time, meaning Fener is next to return, then Kalse in the next 2 days).
But anyhow, cult will at no point will have voting majority and that Spectre thread is going to be a massive, massive boon to town if used correctly.

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Liosan, on 06 July 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

So, the player that talks gibberish is the FM, and jumped into Serc, after having killed Eloth from Fener's alt? Yes? Shouldn't he still be jumping then? What stopped him?

Edit: We are cross-posting. Don't bitch about my timing.

He is a ninja. Ninja die when they kill.
In this case, he's a ninja-fm, imnsho. AKA: he jumps into another alt, kills someone using the description of the alt he came from (the ninja persona in scene 1, who was then told to not be a professional killer) llives for a cycle as his new alt, then dies. The town vs scum ratio is 2 town deaths for 1 scum death, good deal for scum.

If he comes back, he can do this again, and if he manages to do so before we + SH can lynch him, he can do this trick again. You need to think outside of the box in this game. Returning to thread is seriously messing with normal assumptions and power levels and opens up a whole bag of tricks.

I don't think that the FM is in SH. I think that he did the exact same thing on day 2 that he did on day 1. He jumped and killed before the end of day again. Why did no one else pick up on this? Emur saying that the ninja has to sit out a period of time does not jive with what we have seen so far this game. I would really like to know how and why emur thinks that the FM is in SH. If past FM's are anything to go off of I would say that the FM accidentally jumped into the cult recruit from day one. A FM's CF when he jumps usually comes up as his newest alts correct CF. For those of you who are asswipes it works like this

FM A jumps into player B. A is now dead but his CF shows up as player B.

so based on that I think that we have to assume that the FM is still on the thread. Unfortunately since I think that the FM jumped into the cult recruit. I don't think that the player who is now in the serc alt in SH is going to be willing to tell us which alt he was in previous.

so you think the FM is an independent player?

No I don't I think that the FM is cult, I also think that the FM is not in SH and is still alive here. I am very curious why Emurlahn thinks that the FM has to wait a day before being able to jump and kill again. When based off of what happened on the first two days it looks like he moved during the day. I think that the Serc who is in sh was probably the recruit from monday. So what we need to look for is a slight change in posting style because the FM managed to hide his posting style on day one by rping that crazy posting style of Feners then take over serc who didn't have a lot of posts to compare, so today will be the first time that we will be able to figure out the FM jump based off of posting style.

Got any suspected Faceless Men?

Remove Vote

Not yet. I have to go back over the last 2 days post person by person and try to find a change it is a long process. Feel free to help.

[Rashan]

D, on 06 July 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Rashan, on 06 July 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

D, on 06 July 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 06 July 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

D, on 06 July 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

The Ninja kill of Kaschan happened before the lynch.

Serc, on 05 July 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Aha! So it was YOU Kaschan all along. You lead to my sisters death! PREPARE TO DIE!

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Barghast, on 06 July 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

I shouldn't have asked. I feel more confused. No offense to you Emur. If you are the original Eloth, were you and Fener working together to do whatever it was that broke the sphere? You're claiming town I assume.

No, we weren't.
I think Serc's CF as Serc the Bahamudite is dead. He was Mekin Zikulka, the Eager Ninja was enough to explain the death of Serc/Fener myself.

Fener (the one in SH) claimed he was Serc and that someone took him over.
look at the first posts by Fener on the game thread. Gibberish. AKA: FM who knows he is going to jump and don't want to show his posting style.

So, Fener the FM jumps into Serc, Serc dies as Fener (the one now in SH), and during the jump ninja'ed me.
So, the original Fener aceless Man jumped into Serc AND ninja'ed me. AS PER HIS ROLE TITLE. We died, he played on as Serc.

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Liosan, on 06 July 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

If Cult has a FM and a recruiter does that not seem grossly overpowered?

No. Because the FM is a ninja as per his role ability. He uses that action, he dies a cycle afterwards. Then he has to sit out an X amount of time (my prediction: 1 return per cycle, this may be the ability of a player but my pet theory now is that we return in order of dying, one at a time, meaning Fener is next to return, then Kalse in the next 2 days).
But anyhow, cult will at no point will have voting majority and that Spectre thread is going to be a massive, massive boon to town if used correctly.

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Liosan, on 06 July 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

So, the player that talks gibberish is the FM, and jumped into Serc, after having killed Eloth from Fener's alt? Yes? Shouldn't he still be jumping then? What stopped him?

Edit: We are cross-posting. Don't bitch about my timing.

He is a ninja. Ninja die when they kill.
In this case, he's a ninja-fm, imnsho. AKA: he jumps into another alt, kills someone using the description of the alt he came from (the ninja persona in scene 1, who was then told to not be a professional killer) llives for a cycle as his new alt, then dies. The town vs scum ratio is 2 town deaths for 1 scum death, good deal for scum.

If he comes back, he can do this again, and if he manages to do so before we + SH can lynch him, he can do this trick again. You need to think outside of the box in this game. Returning to thread is seriously messing with normal assumptions and power levels and opens up a whole bag of tricks.

I don't think that the FM is in SH. I think that he did the exact same thing on day 2 that he did on day 1. He jumped and killed before the end of day again. Why did no one else pick up on this? Emur saying that the ninja has to sit out a period of time does not jive with what we have seen so far this game. I would really like to know how and why emur thinks that the FM is in SH. If past FM's are anything to go off of I would say that the FM accidentally jumped into the cult recruit from day one. A FM's CF when he jumps usually comes up as his newest alts correct CF. For those of you who are asswipes it works like this

FM A jumps into player B. A is now dead but his CF shows up as player B.

so based on that I think that we have to assume that the FM is still on the thread. Unfortunately since I think that the FM jumped into the cult recruit. I don't think that the player who is now in the serc alt in SH is going to be willing to tell us which alt he was in previous.

so you think the FM is an independent player?

No I don't I think that the FM is cult, I also think that the FM is not in SH and is still alive here. I am very curious why Emurlahn thinks that the FM has to wait a day before being able to jump and kill again. When based off of what happened on the first two days it looks like he moved during the day. I think that the Serc who is in sh was probably the recruit from monday. So what we need to look for is a slight change in posting style because the FM managed to hide his posting style on day one by rping that crazy posting style of Feners then take over serc who didn't have a lot of posts to compare, so today will be the first time that we will be able to figure out the FM jump based off of posting style.

Got any suspected Faceless Men?

Remove Vote

Not yet. I have to go back over the last 2 days post person by person and try to find a change it is a long process. Feel free to help.

Sure. Let's work together.

[Anomandaris]

D, on 06 July 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 06 July 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

D, on 06 July 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

The Ninja kill of Kaschan happened before the lynch.

Serc, on 05 July 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Aha! So it was YOU Kaschan all along. You lead to my sisters death! PREPARE TO DIE!

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Barghast, on 06 July 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

I shouldn't have asked. I feel more confused. No offense to you Emur. If you are the original Eloth, were you and Fener working together to do whatever it was that broke the sphere? You're claiming town I assume.

No, we weren't.
I think Serc's CF as Serc the Bahamudite is dead. He was Mekin Zikulka, the Eager Ninja was enough to explain the death of Serc/Fener myself.

Fener (the one in SH) claimed he was Serc and that someone took him over.
look at the first posts by Fener on the game thread. Gibberish. AKA: FM who knows he is going to jump and don't want to show his posting style.

So, Fener the FM jumps into Serc, Serc dies as Fener (the one now in SH), and during the jump ninja'ed me.
So, the original Fener aceless Man jumped into Serc AND ninja'ed me. AS PER HIS ROLE TITLE. We died, he played on as Serc.

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Liosan, on 06 July 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

If Cult has a FM and a recruiter does that not seem grossly overpowered?

No. Because the FM is a ninja as per his role ability. He uses that action, he dies a cycle afterwards. Then he has to sit out an X amount of time (my prediction: 1 return per cycle, this may be the ability of a player but my pet theory now is that we return in order of dying, one at a time, meaning Fener is next to return, then Kalse in the next 2 days).
But anyhow, cult will at no point will have voting majority and that Spectre thread is going to be a massive, massive boon to town if used correctly.

Emurlahn, on 06 July 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Liosan, on 06 July 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

So, the player that talks gibberish is the FM, and jumped into Serc, after having killed Eloth from Fener's alt? Yes? Shouldn't he still be jumping then? What stopped him?

Edit: We are cross-posting. Don't bitch about my timing.

He is a ninja. Ninja die when they kill.
In this case, he's a ninja-fm, imnsho. AKA: he jumps into another alt, kills someone using the description of the alt he came from (the ninja persona in scene 1, who was then told to not be a professional killer) llives for a cycle as his new alt, then dies. The town vs scum ratio is 2 town deaths for 1 scum death, good deal for scum.

If he comes back, he can do this again, and if he manages to do so before we + SH can lynch him, he can do this trick again. You need to think outside of the box in this game. Returning to thread is seriously messing with normal assumptions and power levels and opens up a whole bag of tricks.

I don't think that the FM is in SH. I think that he did the exact same thing on day 2 that he did on day 1. He jumped and killed before the end of day again. Why did no one else pick up on this? Emur saying that the ninja has to sit out a period of time does not jive with what we have seen so far this game. I would really like to know how and why emur thinks that the FM is in SH. If past FM's are anything to go off of I would say that the FM accidentally jumped into the cult recruit from day one. A FM's CF when he jumps usually comes up as his newest alts correct CF. For those of you who are asswipes it works like this

FM A jumps into player B. A is now dead but his CF shows up as player B.

so based on that I think that we have to assume that the FM is still on the thread. Unfortunately since I think that the FM jumped into the cult recruit. I don't think that the player who is now in the serc alt in SH is going to be willing to tell us which alt he was in previous.

so you think the FM is an independent player?

No I don't I think that the FM is cult, I also think that the FM is not in SH and is still alive here. I am very curious why Emurlahn thinks that the FM has to wait a day before being able to jump and kill again. When based off of what happened on the first two days it looks like he moved during the day. I think that the Serc who is in sh was probably the recruit from monday. So what we need to look for is a slight change in posting style because the FM managed to hide his posting style on day one by rping that crazy posting style of Feners then take over serc who didn't have a lot of posts to compare, so today will be the first time that we will be able to figure out the FM jump based off of posting style.

So you think the FM is cult who jumped into another cult accidentally. That would mean we were lucky. Also, I agree that we have no reason to think the FM would have to wait a day, since we have seen similar behaviour from the FM-ninja two days in a row, if both actions were his doing.

[Rashan]

Damnit, we should start cropping walls of text.

[Rashan]

Idea: What if He-Who-Was-Fener jumped into Emurlahn's corpse?

[D'riss]

Anomandaris, on 06 July 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

So you think the FM is cult who jumped into another cult accidentally. That would mean we were lucky. Also, I agree that we have no reason to think the FM would have to wait a day, since we have seen similar behaviour from the FM-ninja two days in a row, if both actions were his doing.

That is what I think. We were also unlucky because if the FM had jumped into town then we would be able to see who the person in the serc alt voted for and know that it was the FM. Now that isn't the case because I doubt that the cult recruit (while pissed from being killed off) is going to want to out what is most likely the cult killer. So now to try to find the FM is going to involve poring over everyones posts looking for changes in posting style. Bloody tedious business.

[D'riss]

Rashan, on 06 July 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Idea: What if He-Who-Was-Fener jumped into Emurlahn's corpse?

The FM killed and there for would have jumped before day ended. Emurlahn didn't come on thread until the new day started.

[Anomandaris]

Rashan, on 06 July 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Idea: What if He-Who-Was-Fener jumped into Emurlahn's corpse?

I don't think the FM can jump into the dead people. And if he could, why would he jump into Eloth. He could not have known that Eloth would come back.

[Rashan]

Hmm, okay, okay. Seems like a good reason.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 20 hours and 2 minutes remaining
10 Players still alive: Anomandaris, Barghast, D'riss, Emurlahn, Liosan, Osseric, Rashan, Sheltatha Lore, Telas, Tellan

8 votes to lynch.

3 Votes for Rashan ( Liosan, Fener, D'riss )
1 Vote for Telas ( Barghast )
1 Vote for Barghast ( Anomandaris )

[Rashan]

Oooh, three votes? I wonder why Fener voted for me.

[Path-Shaper]

(see post 751)

In a secluded chamber, a few adventurers are gathered. On one side of the room, the Jheck barbarian is tending a fire. He and the two others beside him are watching what looks like a large pile of rags.
From the mishapen bundle, a gnarled, covered hand appears and lays down three cards. Orb, upright, is laid side-by-side Obelisk, inverted. Sideways, bridging the two, The Apocalyptic.

The hand withdraws into the rags, and the three others watching wait impatiently. After a minute, the hand returns with nine more cards, which it flings down haphazardly. The cards bounce and fall in a scatter around the center three, but all land face-up: Priest and Weaver of Life. Herald of Death. Builder and Maiden of Light. Soldier of Dark. Consort, Cripple and Fool in Chains. Hunter and Mercenary. On each card, a single figure is depicted, most of them human-looking. As the trio lean forward to look closer, the rag bundle's hand re-emerges and casts down three small stone cards, which each land upon one of the outer cards.
"What's this? These aren't Cards!" says one of the onlookers. The bundle of rags does not reply, as usual. But the Jheck, who himself rarely speaks, answers.

"Blocks? Slates?" he asks, looking at his companion as he tries to find the right word. "How do you say... Tiles." Realization dawns. He leans over the field and points out each one. "The Frozen Hold. Here, Bearer. This, Walker. And this..." He looks up at his companions while making a series of warding gestures.
"Shaper."

"Is that bad?"

"Bad."

The group is silent for a few moments, until the green-eyed Fistian woman asks "There were nine cards, but there are ten of us still alive, aren't there? Shouldn't there be one more?"
A hand emerges again from the rag-wrapped creature and places a card directly into her hands. Virgin of Death. Her green eyes widen as a knife tip bursts out of her chest. Behind her, the scarred and battered Capustanii man laughs. And he continues laughing, until the Jheck barbarian leaps to his feet and slices off the man's head with an obsidian sword.

Anomandaris is dead. She was Lilly Garamonde.
Barghast (Brujah) the Bahamudite is dead. He was Mekin Zikulka, the Eager Ninja and not an Esper.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 20 hours remaining
8 Players still alive: D'riss, Emurlahn, Liosan, Osseric, Rashan, Sheltatha Lore, Telas, Tellan

8 votes to lynch.

3 Votes for Rashan ( Liosan, Fener, D'riss )

[Anomandaris]

D, on 06 July 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 06 July 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

So you think the FM is cult who jumped into another cult accidentally. That would mean we were lucky. Also, I agree that we have no reason to think the FM would have to wait a day, since we have seen similar behaviour from the FM-ninja two days in a row, if both actions were his doing.

That is what I think. We were also unlucky because if the FM had jumped into town then we would be able to see who the person in the serc alt voted for and know that it was the FM. Now that isn't the case because I doubt that the cult recruit (while pissed from being killed off) is going to want to out what is most likely the cult killer. So now to try to find the FM is going to involve poring over everyones posts looking for changes in posting style. Bloody tedious business.

To sides of a coin then. We got rid of one cult, but we also have noone who willingly identifies him for us. But with three days worth of posting we might be able to spot it if someones posting style changes.

[Rashan]

Holey Moley

[Rashan]

On a sidenote, yay. We killed the FM.

[Rashan]

I think FM is dead for goodsies now, as we know his real people's name.

[D'riss]

Path-Shaper, on 06 July 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

(see post 751)

In a secluded chamber, a few adventurers are gathered. On one side of the room, the Jheck barbarian is tending a fire. He and the two others beside him are watching what looks like a large pile of rags.
From the mishapen bundle, a gnarled, covered hand appears and lays down three cards. Orb, upright, is laid side-by-side Obelisk, inverted. Sideways, bridging the two, The Apocalyptic.

The hand withdraws into the rags, and the three others watching wait impatiently. After a minute, the hand returns with nine more cards, which it flings down haphazardly. The cards bounce and fall in a scatter around the center three, but all land face-up: Priest and Weaver of Life. Herald of Death. Builder and Maiden of Light. Soldier of Dark. Consort, Cripple and Fool (Mekin) in Chains. Hunter and Mercenary. On each card, a single figure is depicted, most of them human-looking. As the trio lean forward to look closer, the rag bundle's hand re-emerges and casts down three small stone cards, which each land upon one of the outer cards.
"What's this? These aren't Cards!" says one of the onlookers. The bundle of rags does not reply, as usual. But the Jheck, who himself rarely speaks, answers.

"Blocks? Slates?" he asks, looking at his companion as he tries to find the right word. "How do you say... Tiles." Realization dawns. He leans over the field and points out each one. "The Frozen Hold. Here, Bearer. This, Walker. And this..." He looks up at his companions while making a series of warding gestures.
"Shaper."

"Is that bad?"

"Bad."

The group is silent for a few moments, until the green-eyed Fistian woman asks "There were nine cards, but there are ten of us still alive, aren't there? Shouldn't there be one more?"
A hand emerges again from the rag-wrapped creature and places a card directly into her hands. Virgin of Death. Here green eyes widen as a knife tip bursts out of her chest. Behind her, the scarred and battered Capustanii man laughs. And he continues laughing, until the Jheck barbarian leaps to his feet and slices off the man's head with an obsidian sword.

Anomandaris is dead. She was Lilly Garamonde.
Barghast (Brujah) the Bahamudite is dead. He was Mekin Zikulka, the Eager Ninja and not an Esper.

Rashan, on 06 July 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

On a sidenote, yay. We killed the FM.

Most likely jumped again. This is the same CF that we got yesterday.