[Votan]

So the Tyrant in this basically says to Ebbin (paraphrase here)

Tyrant: "Hey, I was all the past Tyrants dude. They were all me."

Ebbin: "No way, really? What about Rhaest?"

Tyrant: "Yeah he was a different Tyrant."

Ebbin/Readers: "....."

This post has been edited by Votan: 23 June 2012 - 10:27 PM

[worry]

Well Rhaest was a Tyrant of a much older age, way pre-dating (and of course, inspiring) the founding of Darujhistan. The Tyrant of the city was apparently a Jaghut who soul-shifted into humans so he wouldn't attract T'lan Imass to come destroy him...therefore his statement (perhaps in that same thing you're paraphrasing) that he learned a lesson Rhaest never did.

[Votan]

 worrywort, on 23 June 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Well Rhaest was a Tyrant of a much older age, way pre-dating (and of course, inspiring) the founding of Darujhistan. The Tyrant of the city was apparently a Jaghut who soul-shifted into humans so he wouldn't attract T'lan Imass to come destroy him...therefore his statement (perhaps in that same thing you're paraphrasing) that he learned a lesson Rhaest never did.

So kind of a silly thing to say, then, yes?

"Hey, even though Tyrant kings are a big and well known phenomena around these parts, and my claim to being all of them is a deeply qualified statement, I'm still going to tell you I was all of them without clarification.If you happen to remember that really recent example of a Tyrant that is not me and totally undermine my big speech, I'll just say that I'm the better Tyrant, Tremble before your stupid villain!"

This post has been edited by Votan: 23 June 2012 - 11:23 PM

[worry]

There was no really recent Tyrant besides him. Rhaest ruled the area millennium upon millennium ago. This Tyrant king of Darujhistan was the only one. Rhaest was an (almost) entirely different kind of Tyrant in an entirely different era of existence. But yah, braggadocio is silly when you can poke holes through it, but how many "greatest rappers of all time" exist right now simultaneously? Also, I'm not arguing that this Tyrant isn't a dumbass as written, on that we agree.

[D'rek]

Also, the "Darujhistan Tyrant" would've been asleep in a cave under a well during the whole Raest Revival Party, so it wouldn't seem very relevant to him.

OTOH, they do seem to be connected. Playing around with "souls", posession and body-switching seem to be common tricks for Jaghut, and the Miner's suspicion that the Daru Tyrant was a Jaghut, but then turning out not to be... I think the Daru Tyrant learned the whole body-switching business from Raest's artifacts or something like that.

[HoosierDaddy]

Eh, they were also great at creating "demon" like thingies. Torrud Cabal seem very much like a possible creation. As I thought about it it was a note in the Jaghut Tyrant favor. I still think it's human magic stuff, though.

[D'rek]

 HDiddy, on 24 June 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

Eh, they were also great at creating "demon" like thingies. Torrud Cabal seem very much like a possible creation. As I thought about it it was a note in the Jaghut Tyrant favor. I still think it's human magic stuff, though.

That's a good point on the demons/ensorcelling bit, too.

Agree that it is human magic though - if the Tyrant or the Torrud were Jaghut the Miner wouldn't have walked out, and if they are human the magic can't be Omtose Phellack, as TCG showed us the only way humans can access it (and it ends with faces being bitten off!)

[Votan]

 D, on 24 June 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

Agree that it is human magic though - if the Tyrant or the Torrud were Jaghut the Miner wouldn't have walked out, and if they are human the magic can't be Omtose Phellack, as TCG showed us the only way humans can access it (and it ends with faces being bitten off!)

I think it's more likely that the Tyrant was a Jaghut, not human. Miner Imass went to confront the Tyrant because he sensed Jaghut sorcery and Ice. He wouldn't have sensed that if the Tyrant was human. The Imass left him alone because Jeshin Lim was wearing the mask, and Jeshin Lim is human. The Imass didn't know that it wasn't the Tyrant's original body.

Add this to the fact that the only tomb left unbroken in the Tyrant's prison housed a Jaghut corpse, and it becomes even clearer. That's the Tyrant's original body, left inviolate, while all the rest broke away. The corpse wearing the mask is just the last creature the Tyrant possessed.

[worry]

I don't agree. I think it was specifically a burgeoning Jaghut Tyrant who put his soul into a human (and subsequent humans) to hide from the T'lan Imass (and therefore avoid Raest's fate). This is why there is Jaghut sorcery residue left in the last demon's cavern, even though it wasn't a Jaghut body (the demon with the orb still in it). And it worked, as even the TI Miner didn't detect him.

[worry]

Votan, I didn't see your post when you wrote that, but I'm almost certain that the body left behind is a demon, and it's only the sorcery in the room that smells like Jaghut. That's at least how I read it at the time, but I wouldn't mind reviewing that scene.

Edit: For instance, I believe the hands and feet of that creature both have talons.

This post has been edited by worrywort: 24 June 2012 - 04:37 AM

[amphibian]

This is incredibly pedantic, but

 worrywort, on 24 June 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

but how many "greatest rappers of all time" exist right now simultaneously?

Nas and Scarface.

Although I have a soft spot in my heart for Big Boi, he's not had the solo career yet (Sir Luscious Leftfoot, notwithstanding). Jay-Z is a crowd-pleaser for sure, but the honest GOAT is just outside his grasp for his lack of incandescent imagery.

[worry]

Haha you're right though, I should have specified self-proclaimed, to make my comparison more clear.

[Spidermule]

bah they cant even rap properly!
there only ever was the tyrant grandmaster flash (and the furious five cabal)

[Kanese S's]

 Votan, on 23 June 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

 worrywort, on 23 June 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Well Rhaest was a Tyrant of a much older age, way pre-dating (and of course, inspiring) the founding of Darujhistan. The Tyrant of the city was apparently a Jaghut who soul-shifted into humans so he wouldn't attract T'lan Imass to come destroy him...therefore his statement (perhaps in that same thing you're paraphrasing) that he learned a lesson Rhaest never did.

So kind of a silly thing to say, then, yes?

"Hey, even though Tyrant kings are a big and well known phenomena around these parts, and my claim to being all of them is a deeply qualified statement, I'm still going to tell you I was all of them without clarification.If you happen to remember that really recent example of a Tyrant that is not me and totally undermine my big speech, I'll just say that I'm the better Tyrant, Tremble before your stupid villain!"

Raest wasn't a tyrant of Darujhistan, as D-stan didn't exist yet when he was oppressing Imass.