[Abyss]

Lizra, on 28 May 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Ok Abyss, you got me looking for qotes about Trull ...PS @Abyss: winning =/being right

I yield before your quote fu onslaught, albeit noting most of that is pretty ambiguous either way.

I still want the final version of this on the web page rotation, stat.

[Toraneko]

PainBringer, on 28 May 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

FOR THE LOVE OF [INSERT RANDOM GOD FROM MALAZAN PANTHEON HERE], THIS DEBATE LEADS NOWHERE!

Guys, this is just how I see Trull. That's all. As I wrote in my previous post, every reader will end up imagining his own version of the character. Yes, the writer may provide descriptions, but ultimately, the picture we paint in our head will not be the same. There would be at least some minor differences. The "most accurate version" of the character will probably be the one created by the artist who worked closely with the author.

I also love muscles for the sake of muscles - that's just the part of my style. It's perfectly OK if you do not like that style - I don't mind it at all, because I know that different people like different things. Speaking of muscles, wait until I draw Karsa Also, I never try to be completely realistic when it comes to drawing.

Personally, I do not think there is one true Trull (when it comes to his look). I also do not say that someone else's Trull is better or worse than some other Trull. This is just how I imagined him.

I could reiterate this point over and over. It's the whole reason why I put off posting here for so long, and why I feel discouraged to keep posting here. It seems the only style that is receptive on these boards are borderline realistic. American comic style? Nope. Vaguely anime? Nope. Full blown anime? lol get your ass out. But anyway I digress...

That is an awesome picture. Keep drawing, I love em. Gonna toss you watch on DA.

[Battalion]

Great picture! It's exactly how I pictured him.

Lizra, on 28 May 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

Abyss, on 28 May 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

[...] so depictions of 'typical' spear fighters are limitted by being, y'know... 'human'.

No, they are not.
You have to assume some kind of muscles arrangement and those muscles will built through training. In the picture the muscles look like someone built up muscles for the sake of looks, but if you look at fighters or any kind of sports you will see that those muscles they use a lot are strongly built, while others are weak. Now depending on whether the muscles are needed for short burst of power like sprints or long endurenace like marathons, they are heavier or leaner, but never in a way that they will hinder themselves.
So the depictions of a typical spear fighter does apply for all sorts of humaniods, unless you assume a comletly different arrangement of muscles.

Regarding this, why do we have to assume the muscle arrangement will be built through training? This is a world where people can transform their bodies into dragons/wolves/tigers/dust/flies/whatever. I'm sure its not beyond Trull to have a solid build (even though in this picture his chest and waist are still relatively lithe) and still fight with a spear, to suggest otherwise is simply wrong.

I haven't got my books any more but I'm sure Kallor fights with a massive sword and although he's tall and broad shouldered, he is also guant and fecking OLD. Should he be able to use that weapon with his build? Not in the real world, but he gets away with it in Wu.

[Puck]

Toraneko, on 29 May 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

I could reiterate this point over and over. It's the whole reason why I put off posting here for so long, and why I feel discouraged to keep posting here. It seems the only style that is receptive on these boards are borderline realistic. American comic style? Nope. Vaguely anime? Nope. Full blown anime? lol get your ass out. But anyway I digress...

That is an awesome picture. Keep drawing, I love em. Gonna toss you watch on DA.

Excuse my cursing, but this is not the fucking point.

Let me say it plainly: if you draw, say, superheroes, you can draw them in whatever the fuck style you want and they are recognizable because the have certain attributes that make them recognizable (funky colours, boob windows, battle thongs.. take your pick).

With malazan characters, who are described with almost exactly the same words every time they are described, the case is the same. If a character is described as black and bearly, he's not latte macchiato coloured and average build. And if a character is described as lithe and tall, he's not a typical bodybuilder of average height. Do you see my point? Probably not. But it is that if those specific attributes are changed, the character is not recognizable. That's a basic rule of character design. Really basic. Many comics and manga get away with doing whatever they please style wise because of these basic attributes.

Yes, yes, it's all your imagination and your style, but with that chain of arguments you might as well draw Naruto with black emo hair and call him Naruto.
You've all the freedom in the world to do that, of course, but there will be people who will not recognize it, actually the majory of people will not.

You might of course wonder, why I'm not tearing Dolmen's thread apart, but the difference is that he's focusing on atmosphere/scenes. Now, he did get his share of being torn apart in the past.

And no, I CAN'T do it better.


But no worries, that's my last post on the matter. I kinda regret breaking my vow to never post in the art section again.

[Battalion]

Lizra, on 28 May 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Ok Abyss, you got me looking for qotes about Trull specificly and Edur in general.(Thank you, Puck, for your help )


First of, the Edur are discribed as being tall and about the same high as the Andii:

DG p. 335

Quote

'Tiste Andii?' Gesler asked in a whisper.
'They have that look,' Kulp replied softly, 'but not quite.' [...] 'Their skins are grey, not black. Nor do they look very... refined.'
[Kulp] [...] 'But these are wearing skins barely cured. And look at their jewellery...' The four bodies were adorned in bone fetishes, claws, the canines of beasts, and polished seashells. There was none of the fine Tiste Andii craftwork that Kulp had had occasion to see in the past. Moreover, all four were brown-haired, the hair hanging loose and uncombed, stringy with grease. [...]
The old man moved past Kulp, crouching down to frown at the captain's face. The high cheekbones and angular eye sockets looked Tiste Andii, as did the man's evident height. Heboric reached out tentatively

MT p. 21

Quote

A moment later he (Sacbandari) sembled into his Tiste Edur form. Skin the shade of hammered iron, long grey hair unbound, a gaunt, aquiline face with hard, close-set eyes. A broad, downturned mouth that bore no lines of laughter. High, unlined brow, diagonally scarred livid white against the dusky skin. He wore a leather harness bearing his two-handed sword, a brace of long-knifes at his hip, and hanging from his shoulders a scaled cape â€" the hide of a Matron, fresh â€" the hide of a Matron, fresh enough to still glisten with natural oils.
He stood, a tall figure sheathed in droplets of blood, watching the legions assemble. [...]

HoC

Quote

Though the warrior (Onrack) was judged tall among his own kind, the Tiste Edur was taller, by almost the length of a forearm. The T’lan Imass had the man sit down on the ground, knees drawn up, then Onrack squatted and slipped one arm beneath Trull’s knees, the other below his shoulder blades. Tendons creaking, the warrior straightened.

MT

Quote

And, despite Tiste Edur blood coursing diluted in her (Sukul Ankhadu) veins, she was not uncommonly tall, which well suited her apparent vulnerability

MT p.41

Quote

There where warriors training in the compound, and Trullsaw the tall, broad-shouldered figure of his eldest brother, Fear[...]

btw. broad- shouldered does not equal heavily muscled.

Secondly about Trull

BH p. 647

Quote

" the Tiste Edur replied with a faint smile at the sapper, that damned smile, so bloody disarming that Hedge almost spilled out every secret in his head, just to see that smile grow into something more welcoming. Trull Sengar was like that, inviting friendship and camaraderie like the sweet scent of a flower

BH

Quote

another figure, stepping close, lithe and half seen.
A spear shaft cycled into view,
The Edur warrior now stood, spear held in a guard position.

RG p.340

Quote

[...] tears streaming down the Tiste Edur's lean, dusky face.

RG p.65

Quote

[...] Rhulad's brother. One of them. The one who had left Rhulad lying on the tiles. Young, handsome in that way of the Edur both alien and perfect. [...]

Nothing here suggest that he would be as heavily muscled as in the picture, but that he has a rather lithe figure.


Sorry if I'm to stern here, PainBringer. Please don't be scared of posting further pictures. I like your style, just not your interpretation of Trull.


Edit says that people want to close the debate, which is fine by me, but I'm still going to post this, now that I have written it all out.

PS @Abyss: winning =/being right

Is there any proof herein that he doesn't have heavily muscled arms? Don't think it says one way or the other. Absolutely it doesn't say that they are long and thin.

This post has been edited by Battalion: 29 May 2012 - 09:04 AM

[worry]

That's considered heavily muscled? What a bunch of girly men!