[Primateus]

QuickTidal, on 12 March 2020 - 04:53 PM, said:

Terez, on 12 March 2020 - 04:10 PM, said:

If Pence has it, the guy in charge of fighting the virus will have the virus, as will his team.

I don't want anyone to die, I'd like to make that clear!

But if say both Trump and Pence contracted the virus and had to be hospitalized, would that mean that Pelosi would become acting president?

[Malankazooie]

If Trump or Pence can't perform the duties, then yes, Pelosi would be next.

[QuickTidal]

Primateus, on 12 March 2020 - 05:13 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 12 March 2020 - 04:53 PM, said:

Terez, on 12 March 2020 - 04:10 PM, said:

If Pence has it, the guy in charge of fighting the virus will have the virus, as will his team.

I don't want anyone to die, I'd like to make that clear!

But if say both Trump and Pence contracted the virus and had to be hospitalized, would that mean that Pelosi would become acting president?

As far as I can tell, yes?

Also, while I don't know about Pence's health....Trump's health has never been any roaring hell, so him getting this would be likely make him high risk and he'd probably have to be hospitalized....

Speaking of, that would trigger the 25th amendment, wouldn't it?

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 12 March 2020 - 05:20 PM, said:

Primateus, on 12 March 2020 - 05:13 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 12 March 2020 - 04:53 PM, said:

Terez, on 12 March 2020 - 04:10 PM, said:

If Pence has it, the guy in charge of fighting the virus will have the virus, as will his team.

I don't want anyone to die, I'd like to make that clear!

But if say both Trump and Pence contracted the virus and had to be hospitalized, would that mean that Pelosi would become acting president?

As far as I can tell, yes?

Also, while I don't know about Pence's health....Trump's health has never been any roaring hell, so him getting this would be likely make him high risk and he'd probably have to be hospitalized....

Speaking of, that would trigger the 25th amendment, wouldn't it?

Trump might be willing to do anything he can to hide it. (Ventilator machine in Mar-a-lago?... 'Classified' medical treatment with NDAs on top....)

His administration might love it if he's actually incapacitated, allowing them to run the government without him... provided he recovers in time to campaign.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 12 March 2020 - 05:26 PM

[Terez]

I don't think something you can theoretically recover from in 1-2 weeks would trigger the 25th Amendment. The line of succession will only be relevant if Trump dies from it. (Which is entirely possible. He's at a risky age, and people were just talking about him sounding sick when he was giving his speech last night. Pence is also old but seems healthier.)

[Malankazooie]

This brings up some interesting scenarios. With all the glad-handing and campaigning Biden and Sanders are doing, what if they both come down with it?

[Terez]

We still have Elizabeth Warren.

[Abyss]

Malankazooie, on 12 March 2020 - 03:20 PM, said:

... outright lying to the american public like he has (and will continue to lie) during this pandemic should convince any Trump supporter that he is unfit to be president.

A smashing percent of the American public does not accept that he has lied about anything. They believe him. They accept his truth. Coronavirus is just a flu. It will burn out. It will blow over. It's getting play from the Liberal media because the impeachment failed. The market is plummeting because Wall Street hates Trump too. China did this because they can't control him. These are their truths.

[Terez]

My last post reminded me that I needed to update my sig. Every cycle gives us at least one debate moment that kills a candidate. If this keeps up in 2024, my sig is going to be truly obnoxious.

[QuickTidal]

Terez, on 12 March 2020 - 05:25 PM, said:

I don't think something you can theoretically recover from in 1-2 weeks would trigger the 25th Amendment. The line of succession will only be relevant if Trump dies from it. (Which is entirely possible. He's at a risky age, and people were just talking about him sounding sick when he was giving his speech last night. Pence is also old but seems healthier.)

I was curious because I feel like the risk of death is higher with this, especially in his age group...and if he was hospitalized and on a ventilator? To me that's a 25th situation...

But it's probably moot as Azath is right, they would hide the hell out of him having it to prevent such a thing.

[Malankazooie]

Gabbard is still running - hasn't suspended her campaign. So if Biden and Sanders drop....

Can you jump back into the race after you have dropped out?

[Kanese S's]

Abyss, on 12 March 2020 - 02:35 PM, said:

Kanese S, on 11 March 2020 - 08:31 PM, said:

...not within the American government system as we know it.

Raising the question of what changes a system like that?

Nothing fast I suspect. It would take the rise of a third, and possibly fourth, major political party, branching off from the existing two and having enough time and resources to build to be a valid power. And consider... if all of Sander's 'followers' broke from the Dems and formed a new third party, big enough to be recognized but initially not big enough to challenge the unbroken Republicans. Cue 8 - 16 years of unchallenged Rep governments, at which point the Sanders' party either breaks and folds back into the Dems (likely), grows big enough to absorb the Dems (unlikely), or grows big enough of its own accord to challenge the Republicans (massively unlikely). The reverse, where the Republicans split the same way, is even less likely, but, ironically, given the mass of support for Trump and its Tea Party origins, would have a better shot and becoming a valid third party in American politics.

Point being none of that happens fast, clean, or with a great chance of success.

Other option... secession... States, alone or in groups, break from the US and go their own way. Certain Canadian provinces like to throw this option around every now and then, more or less proving it cannot work.

Smaller poorer countries have basically shifted their entire system of government by way of revolution, bloody or just really loud, but then when you have little or nothing there is little risk to just shifting to something else... worse case things remain just as shite. America is entirely too big and too entrenched for that to work (for which we should all be grateful, because nukes). The USSR was made up of countries (not states) forced together within in a few decades... there were enough remaining institutions and memory to recreate each country as dissolution happened. I doubt many States have that ability... some certainly, I'd bet on California, Texas, maybe New York, but not most.

To my mind it makes more sense to stay within the existing system and make it work, rather than rely on a long term long shot that cannot, under a best case scenario, make anything better for more or less a generation. 'Argh everything is broken fuckit i'm not voting for just anyone who isn't Trump' is short sighted.

Well, I think you know my answer as to what changes a system like that.

As for the USSR, while you're correct that it was made up of several countries rather than states like the USA, it's incorrect to say that most of these were independent for any appreciable length of time prior to joining the USSR, as essentially all of the Union's constituent states were previously part of the enormous Russian Empire ruled over by the Romanov dynasty. With the exception of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, where the Whites won the local iterations of the Civil War, the constituent republics of the Union joined essentially right after the end of the Tsarist era and the chaotic years of the Russian-Soviet Civil War.

[Primateus]

Malankazooie, on 12 March 2020 - 06:01 PM, said:

Gabbard is still running - hasn't suspended her campaign. So if Biden and Sanders drop....

Can you jump back into the race after you have dropped out?

Would you not have to reapply or something?

[Malankazooie]

Terez, on 12 March 2020 - 05:41 PM, said:

My last post reminded me that I needed to update my sig. Every cycle gives us at least one debate moment that kills a candidate. If this keeps up in 2024, my sig is going to be truly obnoxious.

Noice!

I like this one, but don't thing it meets the criteria of killing a candidate? It was directed at Mayor Pete.

[King Lear]

Abyss, on 12 March 2020 - 05:35 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 12 March 2020 - 03:20 PM, said:

... outright lying to the american public like he has (and will continue to lie) during this pandemic should convince any Trump supporter that he is unfit to be president.

A smashing percent of the American public does not accept that he has lied about anything. They believe him. They accept his truth. Coronavirus is just a flu. It will burn out. It will blow over. It's getting play from the Liberal media because the impeachment failed. The market is plummeting because Wall Street hates Trump too. China did this because they can't control him. These are their truths.

Do they though? Or do they just not care that he's lying because they're getting what they want otherwise? There's one thing I've seen people in the US agree on, and it's that Trump should tweet less. Even the 'Trump will bring people together' guy in the pub wishes he'd shut the fuck up.

[Terez]

Malankazooie, on 12 March 2020 - 07:07 PM, said:

I like this one, but don't thing it meets the criteria of killing a candidate? It was directed at Mayor Pete.

Yeah, no one gives Warren credit for killing his candidacy. Just Bloomberg.

[Abyss]

King Lear, on 12 March 2020 - 07:10 PM, said:

Abyss, on 12 March 2020 - 05:35 PM, said:

A smashing percent of the American public does not accept that he has lied about anything. They believe him. They accept his truth. Coronavirus is just a flu. It will burn out. It will blow over. It's getting play from the Liberal media because the impeachment failed. The market is plummeting because Wall Street hates Trump too. China did this because they can't control him. These are their truths.

Do they though? ...

Yes.
Yes they do.

...i can't say what % # 'they' represent, but there are a fucking lot of them.

[King Lear]

Abyss, on 12 March 2020 - 07:44 PM, said:

King Lear, on 12 March 2020 - 07:10 PM, said:

Abyss, on 12 March 2020 - 05:35 PM, said:

A smashing percent of the American public does not accept that he has lied about anything. They believe him. They accept his truth. Coronavirus is just a flu. It will burn out. It will blow over. It's getting play from the Liberal media because the impeachment failed. The market is plummeting because Wall Street hates Trump too. China did this because they can't control him. These are their truths.

Do they though? ...

Yes.
Yes they do.

...i can't say what % # 'they' represent, but there are a fucking lot of them.

Nah I disagree. I think lots of people just enjoy the spectacle. It's like WWE It's not real, and it doesn't matter because you can't do anything about it anyway, so just laugh at the people taking it seriously. It's not limited to people who vote Republican either.

[Primateus]

King Lear, on 12 March 2020 - 07:10 PM, said:

Abyss, on 12 March 2020 - 05:35 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 12 March 2020 - 03:20 PM, said:

... outright lying to the american public like he has (and will continue to lie) during this pandemic should convince any Trump supporter that he is unfit to be president.

A smashing percent of the American public does not accept that he has lied about anything. They believe him. They accept his truth. Coronavirus is just a flu. It will burn out. It will blow over. It's getting play from the Liberal media because the impeachment failed. The market is plummeting because Wall Street hates Trump too. China did this because they can't control him. These are their truths.

Do they though? Or do they just not care that he's lying because they're getting what they want otherwise? There's one thing I've seen people in the US agree on, and it's that Trump should tweet less. Even the 'Trump will bring people together' guy in the pub wishes he'd shut the fuck up.

They're not just his people. They are people who want to be like him; rich, presumably successful, married to a beautiful wife and capable of saying whatever the fuck he wants seemingly without repercussions.

They believe him, because they have to believe him. He's their guy and their guy can't be wrong.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Beaver Killia, on 12 March 2020 - 08:06 PM, said:

Is the census online only? Got a letter in with a code. Looks fishy as hell.

'GOP is accused of sending misleading "census" forms ahead of the actual count'

https://www.latimes....ng-census-forms

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 12 March 2020 - 08:28 PM