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Why is Crokus in this book?

#21 User is offline   Not Noto 

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 07:35 AM

View PostSir.Bumpaclottus, on 04 April 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 04 April 2017 - 04:04 AM, said:

View PostSir.Bumpaclottus, on 02 April 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

Crokus = Lorns death, saving the remaining mages from the assasin/vorcan, getting sorry/apsalar on her way home.. also saving coll, kruppe and murillo from getting killed by lorn.

And everything except maybe saving the mages, is cause of oppons influence..


Not really. You could argue the timing of Cotillion withdrawing from Sorry was influenced by Oponn, but naming her Apsalar and deciding to help was pure Crokus. Similarly, Crokus was the only one of the group to talk to Lorn... Coll and Murillo both attached and she took out Kruppe because taking out the Mage first is reflex for her. That was Crokus' instincts, not luck.

View PostNot Noto, on 04 April 2017 - 03:41 AM, said:

View PostSir.Bumpaclottus, on 02 April 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

Crokus = Lorns death, saving the remaining mages from the assasin/vorcan, getting sorry/apsalar on her way home.. also saving coll, kruppe and murillo from getting killed by lorn.

And everything except maybe saving the mages, is cause of oppons influence..

I hate Crokus. Saving the cabal mages is very bad.


Again, not really. The general consensus towards the end of the book is that the Empire taking over Darujhistan would have been a bad thing. Crokus saving Baruk and Derudan was part of that.


But crokus was only with them outside of daruhjistan because they needed to protect the coinbearer, so if he hadnt had oppons coin he wouldnt have been there to make Lorn reconsider killing them.

So he also met sorry/apsalar because of him being the coin bearer and then went on to the fete with her, for his own reasons.

Also the crimson guard wouldnt have killed Lorn either if not for the coin..

And all of that just from dropping a coin into the mix, and sit back and watch..

But didn't work so well with a sword..
Paran taught that god bitch what happens to gods when they fuck with humans.
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#22 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:04 AM

Crocus is a type of flower and this book is about gardens of the moon. Crokus is the flower of the book.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#23 User is offline   Not Noto 

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:30 AM

View Postworry, on 05 April 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

Crocus is a type of flower and this book is about gardens of the moon. Crokus is the flower of the book.


Hmm...

Crokus
An extra large clitoris/penis on a hermaphrodite.

http://www.urbandict...php?term=Crokus
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#24 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 02:55 PM

View PostSir.Bumpaclottus, on 04 April 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

But crokus was only with them outside of daruhjistan because they needed to protect the coinbearer, so if he hadnt had oppons coin he wouldnt have been there to make Lorn reconsider killing them.

So he also met sorry/apsalar because of him being the coin bearer and then went on to the fete with her, for his own reasons.

Also the crimson guard wouldnt have killed Lorn either if not for the coin..

And all of that just from dropping a coin into the mix, and sit back and watch..


Not everything that happens is a result of Oponn's influence. They don't direct events, or control what happens when they push/pull things. It's not a ridiculous suggestion that everything that happens to anyone who intersects with Crokus even indirectly is a result of the coin, but i think that overestimates just what Oponn does. People still make their own decisions, gods just nudge here or there.

The Guard didn't kill Lorn, Meese and Irilta did. Sure, Blues wounded Lorn, but let her live. And we can't say one way or another if she could have taken Meese and Irilta but for the wound from Blues.


View PostNot Noto, on 05 April 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

...But didn't work so well with a sword..
Paran taught that god bitch what happens to gods when they fuck with humans.


After the initial resurrection, all of Paran's dealings were with the male half of Oponn. He actually wanted to draw the female twin into Dragnipur but got the man instead. At the end after Cotillion takes the sword, it's the man who shows up to complain. Unless you means 'bitch' in a general non-gender sense, in which case yep.



The sword and the coin seemed to have slightly different investments. Oponn brought Paran back from death, but left their influence on his sword. All this seems to do is save his life against the Rhivi, and lead him to the Bridgeburners in the bar.

Crokus, on the other hand, kept being propelled into situations where only his luck saved his life.

...i wonder if the difference was meant to be the will of the bearer, rather than the invested item. I wonder if SE remembers... :)
CHASE: Paw Patrol is ready for action Mr Pust sir!
PUST: *pauses ranting* What does that mean?
ZUMA: It means let's dive in, dude!
PUST: What? What is a dude? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?????
-The Malazan Book of the Paw Patrol
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#25 User is offline   Sir.Bumpaclottus 

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 05:38 PM

Im not saying they planned or directed anything or had a goal.

They just threw in the coin for shits and giggles, and then just sat back and watched the ripples.

This post has been edited by Sir.Bumpaclottus: 05 April 2017 - 05:39 PM

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#26 User is offline   Sophia West 

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 02:55 PM

View PostEloq, on 08 February 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

View PostD, on 08 February 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

He's the Daru perspective. Without him you'd mostly just have Malazan viewpoints of everything and the empire's hostility to Darujhistan wouldn't seem so bad (as Madalin Stunt Cars 2).


But aren't Baruk, Rallick, Murillio, Coll and Kruppe Daru? They're political players and such (and a drunk) but I feel like we have other characters who could and do do the Daru job, unless Erikson really felt like he needed an "innocent" Daru perspective. Maybe to show the costs of war on the innocent? I'm not sure he performed that role well but maybe that's just because I didn't like him because I thought he was useless.

Anyway, it seems that Crokus will continue to play a role in future books so maybe I'll get a better idea of why he had to be in this one. Hopefully he becomes more interesting in the process.



I think part of the reason is narrative. Many of the people in the book are arrivés, who are at the peak of their power. Like he does with Paran on the Malazan side, he uses Crokus on the Daru side to bring the city to life, add an explanation or two, show the way of life, introduce the power players from his angle, and add in a character that satisfies one of fantasy's clichés, the goldenhearted young lout. Someone like that is a useful tool for an author as he can develop the character without many background flash backs detailing a few decades of history attached to the character. Since SE and ICE based their story at the least partly on roleplaying they did in the past, it may also be that Crokus was a playing character of one of them - he's a fairly standard rogue type. And yes, he is perhaps one of the lesser interesting components of the story as a whole. Then again, you may like what he develops into :crybaby:
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#27 User is offline   Yastru 

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 11:45 AM

View PostSir.Bumpaclottus, on 04 April 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 04 April 2017 - 04:04 AM, said:

View PostSir.Bumpaclottus, on 02 April 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

Crokus = Lorns death, saving the remaining mages from the assasin/vorcan, getting sorry/apsalar on her way home.. also saving coll, kruppe and murillo from getting killed by lorn.

And everything except maybe saving the mages, is cause of oppons influence..


Not really. You could argue the timing of Cotillion withdrawing from Sorry was influenced by Oponn, but naming her Apsalar and deciding to help was pure Crokus. Similarly, Crokus was the only one of the group to talk to Lorn... Coll and Murillo both attached and she took out Kruppe because taking out the Mage first is reflex for her. That was Crokus' instincts, not luck.

View PostNot Noto, on 04 April 2017 - 03:41 AM, said:

View PostSir.Bumpaclottus, on 02 April 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

Crokus = Lorns death, saving the remaining mages from the assasin/vorcan, getting sorry/apsalar on her way home.. also saving coll, kruppe and murillo from getting killed by lorn.

And everything except maybe saving the mages, is cause of oppons influence..

I hate Crokus. Saving the cabal mages is very bad.


Again, not really. The general consensus towards the end of the book is that the Empire taking over Darujhistan would have been a bad thing. Crokus saving Baruk and Derudan was part of that.


But crokus was only with them outside of daruhjistan because they needed to protect the coinbearer, so if he hadnt had oppons coin he wouldnt have been there to make Lorn reconsider killing them.

So he also met sorry/apsalar because of him being the coin bearer and then went on to the fete with her, for his own reasons.

Also the crimson guard wouldnt have killed Lorn either if not for the coin..

And all of that just from dropping a coin into the mix, and sit back and watch..


Push and pull..
Thats Oponn for you. Not sure what you are complaining about.
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