[D'rek]

Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-tiam, on 15 March 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

D, on 14 March 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

It was Derudan, Kruppe did indeed mess with her mind (via that drug he kept giving her) to keep her from answering the Tyrant's call. She whittled a bunch of sticks, then laid spells on them via sleeping with Kruppe. Kruppe then took these sticks and used them for the shafts of crossbow bolts (which yes, the heads were made by Humble Measure and Barathol using shards/shavings of Dragnipur). And then those bolts ended up in Scorch and Leff's crossbows, and then later in the chest of the Tyrant.

You are right but the drug is the same pipe she wassmoking in GOTM. Also it doesnt fit that shed lived there for aslong as anyone could remember.

The pipe might've been the same but the drug wasn't. Actually, I don't think the pipe was the same either - at the end she is looking for her hookah.

And sure it fits that she'd lived there as long as anyone could remember:
a} people have short memories because they live miserable lives and don't care
b} Kruppe took an existing old witch and supplanted her with Derudan because that is less suspicious to agents of the Tyrant

[Abyss]

Paran, on 30 January 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yeah, the witch was Derudan and her madness allowed her to not answer the Tyrant's call. ...

Harvester, on 30 January 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

I think it's the opium that keeps her out of the Tyrants reach.

I think you're both right.
Vorcan chained herself with otataral to avoid the call. Derudan went a different route.
Baruk probably figured he was strong enough to resist... he does deal with people like Rake and Brood as equals after all.
Clearly he was wrong.

D, on 14 March 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

...She whittled a bunch of sticks, then laid spells on them via sleeping with Kruppe. Kruppe then took these sticks and used them for the shafts of crossbow bolts (which yes, the heads were made by Humble Measure and Barathol using shards/shavings of Dragnipur). And then those bolts ended up in Scorch and Leff's crossbows, and then later in the chest of the Tyrant.

Bingo.
It's a frikkin elaborate plan, and having Scorch and Leff deliver the coup de grace practically by accident was... perhaps not as well set up as it could have been.
As an example of Kruppe's brilliant master plan coming to fruition it was great, if somewhat unclear. As a crowning moment to a major plotline, it was... well...
i'm a bit ambivalent. I love the notion of Kruppe working behidnthe scenes to set up everything so that the perfect weapons are in the right place at the right time in the right hands to perforate the Tyrant. But it was almost so vague as to be unclear. Kruppe stepping out of the shadows, standing over the corpse and saying 'gotcha!' would have closed the event better perhaps.

[D'rek]

Abyss, on 16 March 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Paran, on 30 January 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yeah, the witch was Derudan and her madness allowed her to not answer the Tyrant's call. ...

Harvester, on 30 January 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

I think it's the opium that keeps her out of the Tyrants reach.

I think you're both right.
Vorcan chained herself with otataral to avoid the call. Derudan went a different route.
Baruk probably figured he was strong enough to resist... he does deal with people like Rake and Brood as equals after all.
Clearly he was wrong.

D, on 14 March 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

...She whittled a bunch of sticks, then laid spells on them via sleeping with Kruppe. Kruppe then took these sticks and used them for the shafts of crossbow bolts (which yes, the heads were made by Humble Measure and Barathol using shards/shavings of Dragnipur). And then those bolts ended up in Scorch and Leff's crossbows, and then later in the chest of the Tyrant.

Bingo.
It's a frikkin elaborate plan, and having Scorch and Leff deliver the coup de grace practically by accident was... perhaps not as well set up as it could have been.
As an example of Kruppe's brilliant master plan coming to fruition it was great, if somewhat unclear. As a crowning moment to a major plotline, it was... well...
i'm a bit ambivalent. I love the notion of Kruppe working behidnthe scenes to set up everything so that the perfect weapons are in the right place at the right time in the right hands to perforate the Tyrant. But it was almost so vague as to be unclear. Kruppe stepping out of the shadows, standing over the corpse and saying 'gotcha!' would have closed the event better perhaps.

We saw Kruppe with Derudan, Rallick noted him in Baruk's house where the Otataral-lined chest was revealed empty and then we saw him at the forging of the bolt-heads, so I think that was well enough - the difficulty in piecing it together for the reader goes hand in hand with the Tyrant and his cabal not catching on either! The weak point, I think, is that Scorch and Leff's first shot on the Tyrant didn't seem like something Kruppe could have setup. Instead of one of them accidentally shooting him, maybe Kruppe should've fired his own bolt from behind them, unseen, and the Tyrant just assumes it was S&L. When he comes at them, then S&L start shooting him with the magic bolts. Or if there was some way ICE could've worked their job woes into it - the Tyrant is choking Ebbin for some reason, S&L debate just who is their employer, decide Ebbin still owes them more money and so shoot the Tyrant in rage.

[worry]

Agreed, the big problem is the Scorch/Leff accident. And not just because it's silly on the planning level, but also because I seem to remember S&L being bumblers, sure, but surprisingly competent when getting down to business? Or am I misremembering that from TTH. Like I got the impression that when push comes to shove, they could handle themselves fine without all the panic.

[Rupert]

My impression was that from Scorch and Leff POV it started as an accident but in truth the accident was provoked by outside forces,with all hints pointing to Kruppe.

If my impression is true then the intent of the scene was to show that Kruppe has at his disposal powers that allow him to manipulate people or events with sublety to some extent.
I was thinking of things like subtle mind suggestion on people or a limited ability to "nudge" like some powers seem to be able to do or that his dance has some fate-shaping proprierties.

It does seem to me that the "accident" was an intentional choice by the author.

[worry]

Well Kruppe actually has some telekinetic powers (forget which warren that might be) which he showed previously by shoplifting snacks and stuff. So that might be what happened.

[Nelix Q]

Hmmm, I think D'rek's nailed it- all fits pretty well- finishing with Kruppe putting the bolts into Scorch & Leff's quivers when he got them boozed at the Phoenix.
But true enough Jean-Claude- it does say that she'd lived there as long as anyone could remember...? I actually got the impression in the end that she was K'rul- about the time that Tay'nn went down into the tunnel to obviously do some work with/ help K'rul, we had that scene of the witch "waking up"... anyway that was my impression but I think the above theory's all fit much better.

[Mekeritrig]

champ, on 28 January 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

I thought she was the witch from - iirc - MoI? the one QB meets/gives his pebble to and she calls him a snake of the desert, the oldest living witch left alive of Tennes?

But isn't that witch from Pale, not Darujhistan?

[Mekeritrig]

Abyss, on 16 March 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Paran, on 30 January 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yeah, the witch was Derudan and her madness allowed her to not answer the Tyrant's call. ...

Harvester, on 30 January 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

I think it's the opium that keeps her out of the Tyrants reach.

I think you're both right.
Vorcan chained herself with otataral to avoid the call. Derudan went a different route.
Baruk probably figured he was strong enough to resist... he does deal with people like Rake and Brood as equals after all.
Clearly he was wrong.

I think Baruk was in fact in the process of trying to lock himself inside a sort of demon's trap when the Call from the Tyrant physically drags him out of the ritual circle and pulls him out of his house.

[Mob]

D, on 14 March 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

It was Derudan, Kruppe did indeed mess with her mind (via that drug he kept giving her) to keep her from answering the Tyrant's call. She whittled a bunch of sticks, then laid spells on them via sleeping with Kruppe. Kruppe then took these sticks and used them for the shafts of crossbow bolts (which yes, the heads were made by Humble Measure and Barathol using shards/shavings of Dragnipur). And then those bolts ended up in Scorch and Leff's crossbows, and then later in the chest of the Tyrant.

Of course, genius D'Rek!