[Hoods Breath]

While in the middle of my Erikson and Martin withdrawal I've tried a few other series.. finally decided to give WOT a try. First reaction mid-way through Eye of the World:

Rand & Co. = Frodo & Co.
Lan = Aragon
Moraine = Gandalf
Trollocs = Orcs
Fade/Halfman = The Nine
Dark Lord = Sauron
Emonds Field = The Shire
Whitebridge = Bree... right down to the bartender (Barty? = Barliman)
Death of Thom = Death of Gandalf "run you fools"
Travel to Tar Valon = Travel to Elrond or Mordor

Countless other examples of how terribly derivative this book is. Is this supposed to be clever?

Plus I'm more than halfway through and these characters are just slogging around being idiots. I'm sure they'll soon find the magic swords which will turn these farmboys into epic badasses but... can some MBOTF veteran tell me... Is this worth investing the time and effort to delve into this series? I've heard it gets slow and digresses.... yikes!

This post has been edited by Hoods Breath: 27 January 2012 - 07:22 PM

[Abyss]

 Hoods Breath, on 27 January 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

While in the middle of my Erikson and Martin withdrawal I've tried a few other series.. finally decided to give WOT a try. First reaction mid-way through Eye of the World:

Rand & Co. = Frodo & Co.
Lan = Aragon
Moraine = Gandalf
Trollocs = Orcs
Fade/Halfman = The Nine
Dark Lord = Sauron
Emonds Field = The Shire
Whitebridge = Bree... right down to the bartender (Barty? = Barliman)
Death of Thom = Death of Gandalf "run you fools"
Travel to Tar Valon = Travel to Elrond or Mordor

Countless other examples of how terribly derivative this book is. Is this supposed to be clever?

Plus I'm more than halfway through and these characters are just slogging around being idiots. I'm sure they'll soon find the magic swords which will turn these farmboys into epic badasses but... can some MBOTF veteran tell me... Is this worth investing the time and effort to delve into this series? I've heard it gets slow and digresses.... yikes!

Imnsho, the first five or so books (up to Lord of Chaos) steadily improve and are indeed worth your time and money.

Then there's the 6-10 dark time of mediocre and plodding books, altho im told reading them back to back, as opposed to waiting two years between them, they read much better.

Then the series goes AWESOME.

This series will generate multiple opinions... best to go with your own gut.

[QuickTidal]

 Hoods Breath, on 27 January 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

While in the middle of my Erikson and Martin withdrawal I've tried a few other series.. finally decided to give WOT a try. First reaction mid-way through Eye of the World:

Rand & Co. = Frodo & Co.
Lan = Aragon
Moraine = Gandalf
Trollocs = Troll Orcs
Fade/Halfman = The Nine
Dark Lord = Sauron
Emonds Field = The Shire
Whitebridge = Bree... right down to the bartender (Barty? = Barliman)
Death of Thom = Death of Gandalf "run fly you fools"
Travel to Tar Valon = Travel to Elrond or Mordor <--- Not really.

Countless other examples of how terribly derivative this book is. Is this supposed to be clever?

Plus I'm more than halfway through and these characters are just slogging around being idiots. I'm sure they'll soon find the magic swords which will turn these farmboys into epic badasses but... can some MBOTF veteran tell me... Is this worth investing the time and effort to delve into this series? I've heard it gets slow and digresses.... yikes!

Nitpicks fixed in bold.

And I agree with everything Abyss said.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 27 January 2012 - 07:37 PM

[champ]

I guess the series isn't for everyone, I bought the first 6 books - on offer - got about 1/3 of the way through the fourth book and just stopped reading. The first time I had done that in a series, just couldn't go on, which was unfortunate as I wanted to like the books - why I bought 6! They just weren't for me, boredom!

[Aptorian]

 Hoods Breath, on 27 January 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Is this worth investing the time and effort to delve into this series? I've heard it gets slow and digresses.... yikes!

I gave up at book 4 where, 200 pages in, nothing had yet happened of interest and everyone was still busy having internal monologues where everything that happened in the last book was being regurgitated for those readers too dimwitted to remember what happened yesterday.

The books are slow, the characters generic and annoying, there is WAY to much time spent travelling between point A and B.

I will say though that the series has some really awesome World building and general ideas that made me willing to sit through it all. It does have some cool monsters and baddies, there are some pretty awesome battles, there are scenes that has you pumped, it just drowns in... paper fodder.

[Use Of Weapons]

The first part of book 1's echoes of tLotR are entirely deliberate, and according to RJ were intended to give readers a sense of something familiar before he took them in new directions. The extent to which that works varies from reader to reader, of course, but it worked for me sufficiently to get me to Caemlyn, which is where everything starts to deviate from the standard fantasy epic pattern (at least, IMO).

[acesn8s]

 Hoods Breath, on 27 January 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

While in the middle of my Erikson and Martin withdrawal I've tried a few other series.. finally decided to give WOT a try. First reaction mid-way through Eye of the World:

Rand & Co. = Frodo & Co. I can see that, but things change later
Lan = Aragon Yup
Moraine = Gandalf Except that there are hundred of women with similar power
Trollocs = Orcs yup
Fade/Halfman = The Nine Except that there are countless Fades out there
Dark Lord = Sauron More like Morgoth
Emonds Field = The ShireYup
Whitebridge = Bree... right down to the bartender (Barty? = Barliman)yup
Death of Thom = Death of Gandalf "run you fools"Not really, especially if you think Moiraine = Gandalf
Travel to Tar Valon = Travel to Elrond or Mordor No

Countless other examples of how terribly derivative this book is. Is this supposed to be clever?

Plus I'm more than halfway through and these characters are just slogging around being idiots. I'm sure they'll soon find the magic swords which will turn these farmboys into epic badasses but... can some MBOTF veteran tell me... Is this worth investing the time and effort to delve into this series? I've heard it gets slow and digresses.... yikes!

Jordan did enjoy taking a lot of typical Fantasy tropes and putting a spin on them. I think if you keep reading somethings may surprise you and something things you'll see coming a mile away - but enjoy seeing it unfold.

[Zedman1991]

yea the first wot is EXTREMELY LotR ,you aren't alone. i can't tell you to finish or not, but i will say when i got all the way to book 11, i had to wait 2-3 months for book 12. I have never read a more epic book than book 12, i finished it in 1 night and was getting brain-explosions from it. I think this was from being invested in the characters for so long. malazan books keep you for a while, but there are huge sections without some characters. WoT you get 12 whole books of them. That said, starting around book 6 or 7, all the way to 10 or even 11 is just a fucking load of shit. Some of the worst literature i've ever read. An entire 1000 page book has about 2 significant events in it. I will NEVER read the series again, yet i do not regret picking it up once, merely because of how unbelievably epic book 12 was. serious it was totally filled with "holy shit" haha. Ahhhh, i miss that, i should go reread it. book 14 should be out soon iirc.



EDIT: http://www.brandonsa...rogress-Bar-FAQ

this book seems to be an unbelievably huge 700-750k words possible. that is nearly double the size of most of the malazan books. this may be a mistake, an old version when all the final 3 wot books were still being kept as 1.

This post has been edited by Zedman1991: 27 January 2012 - 10:30 PM

[Terez]

There's actually a lot of good stuff that happens in books 7-10. It's just annoying when you have to wait 2-3 years for them. None of the noobs understand why people hate those books.

As for the Tolkien parallels, that's just how he started off the series. As for 'derivative', the entire series is derivative, which is the whole point of it. The Wheel of Time turns, etc. WoT is intended to be the source of all of our legends, including Tolkien (which is derivative of Arthurian legend itself). If, at this point, you think the characters are bumbling around and being stupid, though, you might want to quit while you're ahead.

[Macros]

Quit now man, I enjoyed the first few books of WoT despite the ballavhe characters and bumbling around but it seriously nose dives later in the series, I haven't read brandersons efforts yet don't know if I will

I imagine if I discovered WoT now and not when I was younger I would have dropped it like a hot potatoes the 50th time nyneave tugged her braid. (page 35?)

[Defiance]

I read up to book eight back when I was thirteen. I had to stop reading the series because of how hellishly slow things were going. 6 and 7 had progressed slowly, and in the first 200 pages of 8, NOTHING happened.

A part of me wants to read the series again, just so that I can read all fourteen(?) books and say I've read the entire series. The characters are just so damn aggravating and parts of the plot move so hellishly slow that I simply can't do it. There's a lot of bullshit talking and introspection, but it's different than SE's introspection (I like how SE does it, this was just rambling BS). In fact, by the time I put the books down, I didn't have much good to say about them. I did like that Rand just became more and more of a douche the more powerful he got. I also had the hots for Min, though I can't remember why. Beyond that, pretty much all of the characters made me want to bash my head into the fucking wall.

There are also quite a few things that are taken to an absurd level in the series. Apparently women all over the world have the same mannerisms, every piece of clothing needs to be described in at least an entire paragraph, and characters have the same stupid thoughts over and over again. One of the worst is the love triangle BS between the three main male characters. Each one always thinks about how the other two are great with women, while they themselves are terrible, "Oh I'm Perrin and Rand and Mat are so good with women blah blah blah cry cry cry."

There were some amazing parts to the series. I swear that it wasn't all bad. It's simply that it got to the point where I felt like I'd just been wasting my time, and so all my good memories are clouded by the ridiculous junk.

[HoosierDaddy]

WoT was my first foray into fantasy. I loved the first 9 books, tolerated the 10th and 11th despite the wait, and Sanderson has done really well with the first two of the last 3. I can't imagine being an avid fantasy reader and not having read them.

Like Terez says, a lot of it is intentionally derivative of LotR, but it gets changed up real quick.

Secondly, a lot of fantasy is derivative of LotR. There is an entire section of a "modern trope-reversing" fantasy that literally shouts "MINES OF MORIA DO YOU REMEMBER THAT????" (Rep if you can guess it)

[King Bear]

 H.D., on 28 January 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

WoT was my first foray into fantasy. I loved the first 9 books, tolerated the 10th and 11th despite the wait, and Sanderson has done really well with the first two of the last 3. I can't imagine being an avid fantasy reader and not having read them.

Like Terez says, a lot of it is intentionally derivative of LotR, but it gets changed up real quick.

Secondly, a lot of fantasy is derivative of LotR. There is an entire section of a "modern trope-reversing" fantasy that literally shouts "MINES OF MORIA DO YOU REMEMBER THAT????" (Rep if you can guess it)

Surely you mean The Judging Eye?

[worry]

I believe he's actually thinking of that Gordon Ramsey Lookalike Sex Dwarf Eaten By Badgers news article from last year. If you replace Badgers with Orcs and Gordon Ramsey Lookalike Sex Dwarf with Balin, it fits perfectly.

[HoosierDaddy]

That was most certainly trope-reversing modern fantasy!

[McLovin]

Bottom line: your mileage may vary.

I loved it through book 6, but after 10 I dropped it in disgust.

Like others said above, it's intentionally derivative, but RJ puts more and more of his own spin on stuff as the series progresses.

There is a LOT of good stuff to be found. There is also a lot of stuff that will frustrate the hell out of you. It's up to you whether the former outweighs the latter.

I might suggest finishing the book, see what you think then. If you're still not feeling it at that point you might want to just skip the rest.

[Hoods Breath]

Thanks for the opinions. I actually thought it might be more of a polarizing topic. Most are echoing the reasons it took me so long to tackle this series in the first place.

[McLovin]

I was more polarized when the failure of book 10 and the pointless release of New Spring were still fresh. It felt like a personal betrayal after having hung with the series for 15 years.

Now I can be more objective. RJ really did have some good ideas. Lots of them, actually.

[Macros]

If RJ had of had a co writer and a decent editor WoT could of been awesome.
As it was the great ideas got buried in about 3 books worth of needless filler and tugged braids

[Werthead]

Regarding the LotR familiarity, originally the series was going to be very different with a much older, world-weary protagonist (more like Tam than Rand). Over five years of trying to write EotW, Jordan was convinced to make a more traditional, familiar story with young, inexperienced heroes and Tolkienesque tropes. That lasted about as far as the end of THE EYE OF THE WORLD, at which point the series goes off in a radically different direction.

Quote

this book seems to be an unbelievably huge 700-750k words possible. that is nearly double the size of most of the malazan books. this may be a mistake, an old version when all the final 3 wot books were still being kept as 1.

The confusion comes from the fact that everything in THE GATHERING STORM, TOWERS OF MIDNIGHT and A MEMORY OF LIGHT was supposed to be in one novel, also called A MEMORY OF LIGHT. The 750,000 word estimate was for all three books together. In actuality, they have come out as 940,000 (300,000 words for TGS, 320,000 for ToW and about another 320,000 for AMoL), divided into three volumes (two of which we've seen already).