[amphibian]

Knife defense is horrifying. You get sliced up so much in training that it's basically not worth it to fight a protracted battle with a knife-wielding thug.

Also, yes, do get those mats, gloves and whatnot to figure out how stuff works in real life. Sparring is essential to keeping any martial art alive.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

I think the most important thing to keep in mind, regarding knife defence, is that if you can get the hell out of there and not fight the guy, then run!

[Captain Petepants]

Isolde, on 28 January 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Been practicing HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) for a while now, German longsword. For information's sake, HEMA revolves around trying to translate and interpret medieval and Renaissance fighting manuals, unarmed, close combat (mostly daggers), spears and swordplay. Before I tried it I had this idea that it was going to be like modern fencing, which to me is two peeps shuffling back and forth trying to prick each other (I apologize if anyone is offended by my ignorance here). Turns out HEMA is nothing like that. For one, it's quite physical, pretty much anything goes (punching, kicking, throwing, pommeling, tossing people around). If there are rules, I've never encountered them. Of course, you need to use common sense when sparring and play around some kind of consensus regarding what is decent and what isn't.

Anyway, it's an excellent workout

That sounds a lot like what we do, Isolde. You a member of KDF-Sweden, by any chance?
We also do Wing Chun, Kickboxing, Chinese Boxing, and BJJ.
All good fun.

[Coco with marshmallows]

Agreed on the best knife defence being the RLF maneuver (as in Run Like F***).

In terms of practising it in a 'real' sense, i'm quite fond of using a highlighter/marker pen as a substitute.

There's nothing quite so shocking/depressing as trying to defend against someone with a marker pen, thinking you did a decent job, and then checking yourself for ink marks and finding them EVERYWHERE.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

This is a good little video actually, and some wise comments to accompany it:

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

EDIT: I only posted it as a link but it embedded it anyway....watch it on youtube for the user comments...obviously.

EDIT2: Oh, well...there we go...that was weird.

This post has been edited by Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast: 29 January 2012 - 09:20 PM

[amphibian]

This is a video of Jon Fitch, one of the best welterweight MMA fighters in the world, engaging in some electrified knife training (75k volts). He gets stabbed three or four times before he can take the knife away from his opponent.

I'd love to work with a real sword club someday. I'm putting it on the list of things to do after Muay Thai and boxing.

[Macros]

When I'm back in the city I'm keen to get fit again and was considering some MA because I really struggle to stay interested in exercise that is repetitive and dull, like running and cycling (no offense to runner and cyclists, It just not my bag).
Seeing as my usual football matches are out the window down here, what would be a good Ma to try? Bearing in mind my background in that kind of activity and exercise is drunkenly wrestling with mates and a little bit of boxercise type stuff at home.

[Use Of Weapons]

Have a read of http://www.faqs.org/...s/newbie-guide/, an excellent intro to the various MAs available, things to look out for when choosing a class, etc. Really useful.

[maro]

I do Battodo - very similar to iaijutsu as mentioned. I've been doing it for 10 years now. I train and compete in Japan every year.

It's very hard training but very interesting.

I also spar occasionally with some HEMA guys - good fun as well

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

UseOfWeapons, on 30 January 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Have a read of http://www.faqs.org/...s/newbie-guide/, an excellent intro to the various MAs available, things to look out for when choosing a class, etc. Really useful.

Still reading through this, just out of interest.

Some very good, helpful info in there—nice find.

[amphibian]

Macros, on 30 January 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

When I'm back in the city I'm keen to get fit again and was considering some MA because I really struggle to stay interested in exercise that is repetitive and dull, like running and cycling (no offense to runner and cyclists, It just not my bag).
Seeing as my usual football matches are out the window down here, what would be a good Ma to try? Bearing in mind my background in that kind of activity and exercise is drunkenly wrestling with mates and a little bit of boxercise type stuff at home.

Go box or do Brazilian jiu jitsu.

Judo is very brutal on the body if you do it long term. Probably the most injurious sport out there that's not American football.

[Isa]

Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast, on 29 January 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

Being purely a sport, regular fencing is totally different to historical fencing and the like. Obviously there are a shit-ton of rules that wouldn't apply to a genuine fight as well as the mentality of scoring a point rather than fighting to survive. I love fencing but if you were looking to simulate real combat, it's not the thing to go for.

For the same reasons, I really enjoy traditional jujutsu. This, alongside things like kenjutsu, bojutsu and the ideas of iaido/iaijutsu and aikido—the japanese '-justu' martial arts, as opposed to the '-do', which are more sport orientated, such as kendo and judo—really appeal to me for their true self defence / combat applications that aren't confined by rules and regulations of competition martial arts.

Not that there's anything wrong with competition martial arts—I'm certain that anyone here who trains in them could destroy me in a fight (give me another few years though...); in fact the advantage of that style over what I do, is that you get a lot of experience in full contact fights. On the other hand, that style of training revolves around winning a round and/or scoring points, whereas mine is about staying alive and protecting myself.

I suppose it's just down to what you prefer in the end, right?

I agree. and I appreciate the value of drills or choreographed routines. I don't think I'd be happy without having a chance to put what I've learned into practice however and while I'm sure it's fully possible to spar without using any real force, personally I need to panic once in a while to really appreciate the difference between style and functionality. That sounds like I'm talking about a damn cardigan. It's just that you learn these really cool moves and trade blows like they to in the movies when in reality all you'll have time for will be something like swing/block - grapple. Of course, those who get really good can get a little more fancy but me I'm just trying to land blows without getting hurt.

Speaking of getting hurt, equipment cost is a drawback with HEMA, especially if you spar with steel.

Captain Petepants, on 29 January 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Isolde, on 28 January 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Been practicing HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) for a while now, German longsword. For information's sake, HEMA revolves around trying to translate and interpret medieval and Renaissance fighting manuals, unarmed, close combat (mostly daggers), spears and swordplay. Before I tried it I had this idea that it was going to be like modern fencing, which to me is two peeps shuffling back and forth trying to prick each other (I apologize if anyone is offended by my ignorance here). Turns out HEMA is nothing like that. For one, it's quite physical, pretty much anything goes (punching, kicking, throwing, pommeling, tossing people around). If there are rules, I've never encountered them. Of course, you need to use common sense when sparring and play around some kind of consensus regarding what is decent and what isn't.

Anyway, it's an excellent workout

That sounds a lot like what we do, Isolde. You a member of KDF-Sweden, by any chance?
We also do Wing Chun, Kickboxing, Chinese Boxing, and BJJ.
All good fun.

I had to google KDF-Sweden and didn't really find much info (something about German studies?), there was a site though with different clubs across the country and mine is in there. What exactly is KDF?

[Sindriss]

Macros, I've throughly enjoyed muay thai, wado ruy karate and bjj. All are good, depending on which format you would like to train in.

[Captain Petepants]

KDF is Kunst des Fechtens (the art of fighting-ish); our HEMA organisation. Mainly drawing from German stuff such as Ringeck, Meyer and Liechtenauer (however you spell him). I won't go into a big long description, as you summed our practices and principles up pretty well in your post about your own club.

It's a shame our website seems to be kaput, it had quite a bit of info on it. There is a KDF International facebook page, but not a lot on there really.

One of our Danish instructors, Lars, who also teaches wing chun and escrima, sums the mindset up pretty well:

"Don't always think about the manual; think about what works.
The guy who wrote the manual could have been an idiot. Did you ever think about that?"

and

"Don't always bother with that winding shit.
Sometimes you just need to stab them in the face.
BAM! Like that."

One of the best things I find about the HEMA bunch is that they're really accepting of any other martial arts you bring to the table. I've seen sparring where the guys have used techniques from aikido, wing chun, judo and others. If it works, then it works. I like that.

[amphibian]

Sindriss, on 30 January 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

Macros, I've throughly enjoyed muay thai, wado ruy karate and bjj. All are good, depending on which format you would like to train in.

Know what's weird? For the perceived scrappiness of Irish/Scottish people, Denmark and other Scandinavian nations have taken to the combat sports in greater numbers and with greater proficiency. Muay thai, BJJ, wrestling and so on - the Northerners do them better.

[Pig Iron]

Love boxing and BJJ, too bad I suck. If I could pick one MA to be really good at, it would be judo. But it hurts like a ... Boxing might be the best MA there is, in many respects. It's interesting when talking different MA's (and the inevitable self-defense/"street fight" debates) how much mileage you can get out of and how hard it is to come up with something better than the three techniques jab/straight right/double leg takedown - provided they're trained hard in sparring. Though, again, I suck at fighting so don't listen to me

[Use Of Weapons]

Even though I have trained in a traditional martial art (TMA) for over a decade, I still believe that sport-oriented MAs with a large competition element, especially those who train in an alive fashion, have the edge over TMAs when it comes to self-defence. I do my MA because I enjoy the art side of it, not because I think it's more effective in a combat situation. Essentially, if you are training to beat people who are not just putting up a show of resisting but are actually trying to beat you, _and know what you are capable of doing_, you're in a much better position to defend yourself than someone who has been training with passive resistance or non-contact sparring. It's not the techniques that win -- it's the entire training mindset.

[Silencer]

Eh, yes and no. What it comes down to is that many techniques in sporting MAs (like, say, Judo) are not really suited for application off the mat. The reliance on holding your opponent's gi, for example, is completely useless in a 'self-defense' situation - real clothes don't work like that, and moreover it ties up your own arms.

The thing with 'fights' for real is that there are a few kinds. Trained, experienced opponents - who, in all honesty, are more likely to just not fight knowing how hurt you can get - fighting each other. Those are probably the least common, and the oddest, as they are both 'safer' and much, much more dangerous.
You've got an experienced vs a random, and those are difficult for the experienced person, because unless the random is *really* trying to hurt you, they've got to be very mindful of the fact that this person is NOT going to let you throw them properly, is NOT going to land correctly, so on and so forth. If it's all-out-do-or-die, this isn't so important, but the lack of a trained opponent can often make your own techniques dangerous to you as well as to the opponent. Less rare than a pair of trained opponents, but the outcome is often weighted in the favour of the person with the most combat pragmatism, trained or not - because a guy who has been in a lot of fights picks up enough that they can still hurt you really badly without any 'techniques' other than a straight palm to the jaw.
And then you get untrained opponents having a go - the most common, the most weird, and middle of the ground in terms of risk to combatants.

But really, MAs that are not distinctly oriented towards 'real' fighting are better as mentality, balance, and basic competence sources than as skill or technique sources. I'd be very reserved in actually applying judo, for a start, in any 'real' fight. It's geared towards the opponent giving in when they're meant to, and relies heavily on the fact that gi do not rip, tear or otherwise fail easily. It has its uses, but you'd have to be *very* good, and *very* confident to apply it as a primary method in a 'street fight' or in self-defense.

[JLV]

Once I got into a (drunk) fight with a guy who knew some kind of MA. It was the second time my nose has been broken. It hurt. I lost, big time. I barely got a good hit on him. Trained > untrained imo.

[Silencer]

You do realize that alcohol reduces your reaction time, right? If you were 'drunk', it wouldn't have made much difference if the person was trained or not. XD

But, this is more about the applicability of sporting MA vs traditional MA, and the difference between knowing a martial art and applying it in a fight. The benefits are that you're more used to, say, throwing punches, keeping balance and maintaining distance - not that you know how to do technique x - and yes, that gives a trained person a distinct advantage over an untrained person. My point is that the actual techniques are of questionable applicability.