[Sorrit]

Remember when I said I was going to treat everyone as if they were smart, functioning people. Well it seems I must have lied.

Korlat, on 10 January 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

in my personal opinion, I doubt that scum would silence themselves day 1. Even if they did, voting them day 1 makes little sense as you would, for all intents and purposes, be voting on a guess. We'll have time to grill okaros tomorrow when he can actually defend himself. (against what... i'm not sure).

I see Osserics argument about voting him and analyzing who goes after him... but honestly, on day one scum doesn't need a lot of help to get a train started/rolling. So I don't really agree with his strategy. On the other hand, I don't get a scum vibe from osseric and i feel that we are doing our usual day 1 obsessing over a random detail that leads to an inno getting lynched.

Going to do a quick read through/skim of the thread, but doubt I will be voting Osseric or Okaros. Scum is laying in the weeds... I feel thats where we should be looking.

But that's not his argument, or mine for that matter at all. How is it humanly possible to read my posts on the subject (or Osseric's for that matter) and still come away with this cooky nonsense that you're drooling all over the thread? How? If you're not an idiot, and I'm going to assume you're not (see; charitable still) it would be the easiest thing in the world to read my explanation for my vote and realise that the arguments you're attacking above do not in fact exist. Or do you just prefer to attack non existing arguments in an attempt to seem to contribute when in fact you're not?

Kessobahn, on 10 January 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Osseric, on 10 January 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

The way you're attempting to debase it makes no sense.

My theory is WIFOM. Yes, I said that. Trying to argue WIFOM is bad, yes. I'm not arguing WIFOM. Whether or not my theory is true, the argument is that now would be the best time to find out. There is no debating that. People can (and have) said that they'd rather not try it out at all. That's fine. You say that because my theory is WIFOM, it invalidates the argument that day 1 is the time to test this theory. That makes no sense.

sigh
my argument is simple

WIFOM is bad. period.

anyone bringing up wifom is bad for town. period

you bring up wifom.

your theory is wifom

ergo, you are bad for town. period

Oh for all that is holy! I don't even know how to not threat you like an idiot here. It's impossible. It's as if you purposefully went about finding ways to sabotage my resolution. "I don't like Sorrit being polite. If I act like a complete moron with the reading comprehension of a mitten he'll start being nasty again".

Or do you simply feel more comfortable hammering at a viewpoint that no one disagrees with and thus wont protest? Because that is what you seem to be doing here. Osseric painstakingly explains the difference between WIFOM and his arguments (and by extension my own) and all you seem capable of doing is river-dancing naked around the thread rubbing your balls on everyone while you yell "He said WIFOM!" at the top of your lungs.

Would it be too much to ask that instead of cluttering the thread with this drivel you actually argue with people based on what they said and not what you would have preferred that they said in order to make yourself look good?

Osseric, on 11 January 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 11 January 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

So, I went back and re-read.

Sorrit's defense of Osseric is too blatant to be actual sympage, I think. Could be fake sympage, though.

Tulas did a drive-bye vote on Kessobahn.

Tiam is the vote-leader for being pretty much post-padding.

And, something just strikes me about Karat and his langugage. Pinging the scumdar.

I'd vote for all four of these people, but I'd honestly prefer the other three than Tiam who is at least blatant and mostly on the block for being worthless rather than being scummy.

I still think it's odd that Sorrit backed me up. Confused that someone agrees with me enough to vote with me, maybe.

I have no feel for Tulas at all. I hesitate to vote for low posters as of yet.

I'm not getting the Karat ping, but maybe that's just me.

I hesitate to vote Tiam for low posting on day 1. People who have roles sometimes low post on day 1.

I'm still pushing for an Okaros lynch.

If not, I would be the next best choice. I don't want you guys bogged down in speculation about me the whole day 2/3, that'd be annoying. Not doing an emo thing here, but I'm really not important and I'd rather lynch me than our finder or something.

It's odd in that we agree, yes. However, my defense of you in as much as it was one came about as a result of all these moronic attacks at your position by extension attacks my own. I prefer to argue my position and not some retarded caricature of the same.

[Sorrit]

Oh man, that felt good.

Right. I could say a number of things about Tiam's lynch but the CF said it all really, so there's not much to make of it. It works well to illustrate why I thought lynching Okaros would have been a good idea though. Instead of this last minute pile up that tells us nothing we would have had a lynch resulting from a whole day of back and forth discussion, with heavily entrenched sides and a lot of investment.

If Kessobahn jumps in and claims WIFOM again as a response to this I swear I'll talk to him the same way I talk to my 10 month old nephew for the remainder of the game.

[Path-Shaper]

The night brings some rest from the carnage, but only a bit.

Soon, dawn comes, waking the beasts for a new round of hostilities. Not all the beasts, though.

Galayn Lord (H.D.) is dead. He was inno



It is Day 2. 35 hours and 59 minutes remaining

12 Players still alive: Atrahal, Eloth, Karatallid, Kessobahn, Korlat, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorrit, Tulas Shorn

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Atrahal, Eloth, Karatallid, Kessobahn, Korlat, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorrit, Tulas Shorn

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 11 January 2012 - 10:26 AM

[Tulas Shorn]

Look, I'm not going to say Osseric was wifoming it up, but I can't help but feel it's just splitting hairs. Gathering information based on a wifom argument... it's maybe a little better than a semantic argument, but not by much. You're right about Korlat though, he seems to have either completely misunderstood or just went and made that up.

[Tulas Shorn]

Quote

It is Day 1. 3 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Atrahal, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Karatallid, Kessobahn, Korlat, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorrit, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Osseric ( Olar Ethil, Karatallid )
8 Votes for Tiamatha ( Korlat, Okaros, Eloth, Atrahal, Sheltatha Lore, Kessobahn, Galayn Lord, Osseric )
2 Votes for Okaros ( Sorrit, Tiamatha )
1 Vote for Kessobahn (Tulas Shorn)
Players not voted: Silanah

Here's end of day, with my vote edited in.

There are a couple of people I want to look at here, gimme a moment to look up some posts.

[Okaros]

Greetings all.

[Tulas Shorn]

Karatallid, on 11 January 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

I would like to believe that those who jumped onto the Tiamathia vote early on were just townies relieved at having such a straightforward lynch true to mafia hatred of low posters. However, I am also interested in how some people (like OE) have Tiam at the top of their list with no mention of Silanah. Probably just carelessness, but I would bet money that there will be scum behind this vote.

I really don't like this post. Karat gives in to a lynch inevitable, but makes sure he pours these caveats on afterwards. Putting the vote up first, and then coming up with a couple more posts in a row to basically water down their own vote, just seems like scum gleefully dropping a vote, and then realizing they'd better contribute so as not to seem bloodthirsty.

The so-called swing votes (4 and 5 positions) were Atrahal and Sheltatha. Sheltatha doesn't really strike me either way. They voted elsewhere, and seemed to justify their vote well enough.

Atrahal's progression to the vote bothered me though, and ends up tied to Eloth in my mind. Basically, he asks the thread if we should consider going after low posters. Then, Eloth makes the quote case on Tiam. Atrahal does some other discussion and then does this:

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

Well, I'm ready to proceed, based on all avaiable info. We need to move forward, I'd prefer to not miss a lynch opportuntiy


Vote Tiamatha

This vote came about 7 hours before timeout. This is a swing vote, with some strong directional language behind it. "We need to move forward, I'd prefer not to miss a lynch opportunity"

[Okaros]

Osseric, on 11 January 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

I'm just so curious if Okaros is inno or scum, to see if all this arguing was completely pointless and the real scum were just sitting back laughing the whole time.

If I was cruel and mean-spirited, I would say that this was all pointless and yes, scum was laughing. As I tried to explain in one of my earlier picture posts, silencing is a tool for scum designed to direct attention AWAY from them, not TO them. Yes, there is precedent for scum silencing themselves, but in general it doesn't happen, as the silenced player ALWAYS gathers a lot of attention, whether one particular player has an Osseric-like hard-on for them or not.

However.

I really had nothing against Osseric attempting to make a case out of it (and I'm not going to get into the whole WIFOM thing you were all, erm, loving). It was just as valid to pursue me as it was any other player. No, I couldn't perhaps do as much as normal to defend myself, but that's really the same disability that any low-posting player has.

I know the rest of you can't go on this, but to me Osseric is inno. As again, I tried to say in pictures, because I know that I am inno, that makes me convinced that Osseric is inno. If he was scum he would know this, and wouldn't be so vociferously trying to get me lynched as, upon my inevitable inno CF, he would surely be next for the chopping block. Anyway, that's just to let you know my thinking on that.

Having said that, I really had no idea who to vote for yesterday. My vote for Tiam was just to show Galayn (I think) that I didn't care about them, but really, I wasn't convinced one way or the other. On a gut level, the likes of Atrahal and Eloth stand out to me, but I'd have to go back and take a look as to why that is.

Finally, Osseric: stop crying like a little girl just because you didn't get your way. You repeatedly said you were doing this for town, and didn't care about dying for the good of town blah blah blah whine whine whine. Well, prove it then. Stop having a strop, move on, and carry on playing for the good of town - none of this 'kill me now' bullshit. Drama queen.

[Karatallid]

Okaros, on 11 January 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

Osseric, on 11 January 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

I'm just so curious if Okaros is inno or scum, to see if all this arguing was completely pointless and the real scum were just sitting back laughing the whole time.

If I was cruel and mean-spirited, I would say that this was all pointless and yes, scum was laughing. As I tried to explain in one of my earlier picture posts, silencing is a tool for scum designed to direct attention AWAY from them, not TO them. Yes, there is precedent for scum silencing themselves, but in general it doesn't happen, as the silenced player ALWAYS gathers a lot of attention, whether one particular player has an Osseric-like hard-on for them or not.

However.

I really had nothing against Osseric attempting to make a case out of it (and I'm not going to get into the whole WIFOM thing you were all, erm, loving). It was just as valid to pursue me as it was any other player. No, I couldn't perhaps do as much as normal to defend myself, but that's really the same disability that any low-posting player has.

I know the rest of you can't go on this, but to me Osseric is inno. As again, I tried to say in pictures, because I know that I am inno, that makes me convinced that Osseric is inno. If he was scum he would know this, and wouldn't be so vociferously trying to get me lynched as, upon my inevitable inno CF, he would surely be next for the chopping block. Anyway, that's just to let you know my thinking on that.

Having said that, I really had no idea who to vote for yesterday. My vote for Tiam was just to show Galayn (I think) that I didn't care about them, but really, I wasn't convinced one way or the other. On a gut level, the likes of Atrahal and Eloth stand out to me, but I'd have to go back and take a look as to why that is.

Finally, Osseric: stop crying like a little girl just because you didn't get your way. You repeatedly said you were doing this for town, and didn't care about dying for the good of town blah blah blah whine whine whine. Well, prove it then. Stop having a strop, move on, and carry on playing for the good of town - none of this 'kill me now' bullshit. Drama queen.

wb Okaros.

[Tulas Shorn]

Somehow the last part got deleted from my explanation on Karat. Paraphrasing what I said before - He ends everything by removing his vote, so that he's not even on the train in the end.

[Sorrit]

Tulas Shorn, on 11 January 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Look, I'm not going to say Osseric was wifoming it up, but I can't help but feel it's just splitting hairs. Gathering information based on a wifom argument... it's maybe a little better than a semantic argument, but not by much. You're right about Korlat though, he seems to have either completely misunderstood or just went and made that up.

Maybe, but now you're arguing against what was said, and showing why you're not convinced there's a difference. Kessobahn just scribbled the phrase WIFOM with a magic marker everywhere. To me there's a sizable difference between the two approaches. One has value the other does not.

[Sorrit]

Tulas Shorn, on 11 January 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Somehow the last part got deleted from my explanation on Karat. Paraphrasing what I said before - He ends everything by removing his vote, so that he's not even on the train in the end.

Yeah I noticed that too. At that point Tiam's lynch was pretty much guaranteed as well.

[Karatallid]

Tulas Shorn, on 11 January 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Somehow the last part got deleted from my explanation on Karat. Paraphrasing what I said before - He ends everything by removing his vote, so that he's not even on the train in the end.

Of course I'm not on the train. I'm asleep. In the end, I put my vote where I felt there were the most alarm bells ringing. I don't think anyone disagrees that numerous comments by osseric have been scummy, but people write them off because he is just too obvious and fatalistic. And now, I feel even more justified seeing that he's gone from symp or RI to healer. WTF. what's next? "I am the finder?" ugh.

I also think we have a lot of people who hung back while I was trying to engage towards the end of the day: Atrahal, Silinah (just look at the post content), Eloth, and our most recent additions including you TS. I know people have lives, but we dragged that last lynch train discussion out for a long time, and several players were missing.

So don't go saying "he wasn't even on the train in the end"

[Sorrit]

Why not? You weren't on the train after all. Other people's actions (or lack thereof) do not in fact remove the implications of your own.

[Karatallid]

Sorrit, on 11 January 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 11 January 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Somehow the last part got deleted from my explanation on Karat. Paraphrasing what I said before - He ends everything by removing his vote, so that he's not even on the train in the end.

Yeah I noticed that too. At that point Tiam's lynch was pretty much guaranteed as well.

Guaranteed? I think you forget that in the last stages of the day, Osseric was being fingered as a possible switch. People were hesitant to try moving a long train from one to another, but there was the point where the whole discussion of "i can hammer if..." and self-voting was brought up. Tiam was not a done deal (and Osseric earlier in the day was a done deal by your logic)

[Tulas Shorn]

Then why the half-assed vote　in the first place?

[Karatallid]

Sorrit, on 11 January 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Why not? You weren't on the train after all. Other people's actions (or lack thereof) do not in fact remove the implications of your own.

Correct. but just don't go lumping me in with the rest of the people who barely (or didn't) debate over Tiam's lynch. Also, I seem to recall putting in my reservations about the Tiam lynch, but when it looked like I wasn't going to stubbornly hold my vote and derail the train, I switched back to my most likely candidate.

[Sorrit]

Karatallid, on 11 January 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 11 January 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 11 January 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Somehow the last part got deleted from my explanation on Karat. Paraphrasing what I said before - He ends everything by removing his vote, so that he's not even on the train in the end.

Yeah I noticed that too. At that point Tiam's lynch was pretty much guaranteed as well.

Guaranteed? I think you forget that in the last stages of the day, Osseric was being fingered as a possible switch. People were hesitant to try moving a long train from one to another, but there was the point where the whole discussion of "i can hammer if..." and self-voting was brought up. Tiam was not a done deal (and Osseric earlier in the day was a done deal by your logic)

wat?

[Tulas Shorn]

Karatallid, on 11 January 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 11 January 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 11 January 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Somehow the last part got deleted from my explanation on Karat. Paraphrasing what I said before - He ends everything by removing his vote, so that he's not even on the train in the end.

Yeah I noticed that too. At that point Tiam's lynch was pretty much guaranteed as well.

Guaranteed? I think you forget that in the last stages of the day, Osseric was being fingered as a possible switch. People were hesitant to try moving a long train from one to another, but there was the point where the whole discussion of "i can hammer if..." and self-voting was brought up. Tiam was not a done deal (and Osseric earlier in the day was a done deal by your logic)

I'll have to take other peoples word on that, because just reading things as they are it looked like Tiam was going to be the lynch, barring some wild swing at the end.

[Karatallid]

Tulas Shorn, on 11 January 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Then why the half-assed vote　in the first place?

I didn't realize how much time we had left. I had just gotten back from work, was tired, figured the day would have been over, and low and behold, I had time. I was trying to make sure that I didn't prevent us from getting any lynch on day 1.