[Tulas Shorn]

that sucks. thats actually why i dropped vote on you kess. the case had me thinking okaros knew something.

[Karatallid]

I hope this doesn't mean the thread gets all boring and quiet. Those two seemed to make up half of all the posts sometimes...

[Tulas Shorn]

@karat

bullshit. if okaros was finder kess could be BB. if he played aggressive without wanting to reveal, mind.

[Karatallid]

Easy there TS, I'm not PI-ing him or anything. He's not off my list.

[Karatallid]

And we could cross our fingers that the vig got UB. None of the three of us were silenced.

[Kessobahn]

Tulas Shorn, on 17 January 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

@karat

bullshit. if okaros was finder kess could be BB. if he played aggressive without wanting to reveal, mind.

obviously, I could still be BB.
same as you, or Karat, or anyone left alive.

for the sake of the argument, assume I'm telling the truth when I tell you i'm RI.

now, when a player comes out "staking his life" on the fact that i'm scum (and I know i'm not scum, mind), what am I supposed to think?



i'm not trying to confuse you. I freely admit that of my conclusions are derived from the departure point of "I am not scum" (which is untestable, obviously, save for a lynch).
the most I (or any other player, really) can do is to demonstrate that my actions up to this point have been consistent, linked to that first assumption.

[Silanah]

I'm back, at work, my internet conked out at an awkward time last night, and I misjudged day ending.

And I have no idea what's going on anymore

I'll be back in a couple of hours and do a better reread of the thread.
At least I can talk again!

[Sorrit]

I'm here... let there be much rejoicing.

[Sorrit]

yaay.

[Eloth]

Kessobahn, on 17 January 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

Oka was a guard.

he thought I was scum cuz no one died night 2 when he chose to guard me.

that's the only reason I can see for his sudden conviction that i'm 100% scum.

To be honest I thought Okaros was a finder, you're case come out of the blue and he built the case on you and was 100% certain. I think it was you who said it but you cannot be 100% certain in mafian unless you are scum or finder. Well he wasn't scum so that leaves me highly suspicious of you.



Not only that but both kills last night have the same resolution, so I think both kills were vig kills, which means that someone is guarding our finder surely? Unless they healed the right person.

[Eloth]

Sorrit, on 17 January 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

yaay.

Why are you happy? We lost two players to vigs and did not get a lynch

[Sheltatha Lore]

Kessobahn, on 17 January 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

Oka was a guard.

he thought I was scum cuz no one died night 2 when he chose to guard me.

that's the only reason I can see for his sudden conviction that i'm 100% scum.

Idiotic reasoning. As Korlat says, with my reveal as healer, the chances of a successful guard significantly decreased. Okaros was smart enough to know that, so no, he would not stake his life on that.

Kessobahn, on 17 January 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

also, I'm impressed that our vig waited till night 3 to kill. usually they tend to blow their load on night 1.

Until the vig decides to reveal, I will assume the vig went for Okaros. What would he have to win by killing Osseric, who was accepted as an erratic townie a while ago?
Conversely, scum had much to win by taking out Osseric, and very little to win by killing Okaros, who was under such suspicion that he would have added much more chaos to the thread when alive.

Kessobahn, on 17 January 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

i'm dissapointed in our healer, btw. I'd have hoped they'd focus on Okaros.

Why would I? A killer had no reason to take him out as it VPIs Khell (assuming he was not UB), who was a figure surrounded by controversy. With that in mind, no, I didn't heal him.
It was not in scum's interest to remove him unless he got close to the mark, in which case, you are scum. I do not submit night actions with the thought of having a vig in the back of my mind: I try to second-guess who scum tries to take out. Osseric was on my shortlist, I didn't choose him. Perhaps a bad decision, but hindsight is always easier.

I also really dislike how you try to shift part of the blame to me for his death. That is the most scummy thing I have seen so far from you and works a long way towards convincing me Khell was on to something.

Kessobahn, on 17 January 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

Karatallid, on 17 January 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

Ah, that may make some sense why he had such a boner for you out of the blue. Not that I entirely buy that, but yeah.

that's the most sense I could make of it. I dind't occur to me till after timeout though (like I said, I was still waking up when i came back). At that point, I kept thinking "he can't be a finder, why else, he'd be so confident?"

then I remembered the possibility of a guard. though, admittedly, if I was Khell, i'd have waited another night w/o saying anyhting to test it.

my point was, if no one died this night, he'd have every reason to believe me to be BB, justifying his resolve to lynch me. I would not have opposed that.

alas, ether BB clued into it, or our vig didn't like the push.

Kessobahn, on 17 January 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 17 January 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

@karat

bullshit. if okaros was finder kess could be BB. if he played aggressive without wanting to reveal, mind.

obviously, I could still be BB.
same as you, or Karat, or anyone left alive.

for the sake of the argument, assume I'm telling the truth when I tell you i'm RI.

now, when a player comes out "staking his life" on the fact that i'm scum (and I know i'm not scum, mind), what am I supposed to think?



i'm not trying to confuse you. I freely admit that of my conclusions are derived from the departure point of "I am not scum" (which is untestable, obviously, save for a lynch).
the most I (or any other player, really) can do is to demonstrate that my actions up to this point have been consistent, linked to that first assumption.

I agree with TS. I am not going to vote anyone other than you unless we get tidbits of other news contrasting my current opinion.


Vote Kessobahn.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Eloth, on 17 January 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

Kessobahn, on 17 January 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

Oka was a guard.

he thought I was scum cuz no one died night 2 when he chose to guard me.

that's the only reason I can see for his sudden conviction that i'm 100% scum.

To be honest I thought Okaros was a finder, you're case come out of the blue and he built the case on you and was 100% certain. I think it was you who said it but you cannot be 100% certain in mafian unless you are scum or finder. Well he wasn't scum so that leaves me highly suspicious of you.



Not only that but both kills last night have the same resolution, so I think both kills were vig kills, which means that someone is guarding our finder surely? Unless they healed the right person.

P-S usually doesn't give away who is killed by whom, so both resolutions being at the same time gives little away. There is also very little chance of a 14-player game packing 2 vigs.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Sorrit, on 17 January 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

I'm here... let there be much rejoicing.

Sorrit, on 17 January 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

yaay.

@ Eloth: I think he was rejoicing at his own arrival. Sorrit is like that, be glad he isn't of royal blood or he would demand us to kneel and give obeseiance.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Kessobahn, on 17 January 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

Karatallid, on 17 January 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

Ah, that may make some sense why he had such a boner for you out of the blue. Not that I entirely buy that, but yeah.

that's the most sense I could make of it. I dind't occur to me till after timeout though (like I said, I was still waking up when i came back). At that point, I kept thinking "he can't be a finder, why else, he'd be so confident?"

then I remembered the possibility of a guard. though, admittedly, if I was Khell, i'd have waited another night w/o saying anyhting to test it.

my point was, if no one died this night, he'd have every reason to believe me to be BB, justifying his resolve to lynch me. I would not have opposed that.

alas, ether BB clued into it, or our vig didn't like the push.

Karatallid, on 17 January 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

On the other hand, that suddenly brings up Shelly all over again (successful heal or scum trick)? Also, for sake of argument, that means at least you are not BB, but that doesn't mean you aren't UB btw (not that we could tell with the stupid limited CFs)

Tulas Shorn, on 17 January 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

@karat

bullshit. if okaros was finder kess could be BB. if he played aggressive without wanting to reveal, mind.

Karatallid, on 17 January 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

Easy there TS, I'm not PI-ing him or anything. He's not off my list.

Karat and Kesso are really 1-2-ing here like a brazilian samba football team.
There you have my suspicion: team scum is Kesso as BB, Karat as UB.

[Sheltatha Lore]

^

The TS post is there to show how Kara backpedals a bit when he realizes he's slightly overdone it, but the two of them are really working hard to get Kesso's unrealistic representation accepted and legitimized.

[Sorrit]

Well, I see no reason not to do so. I'm a simple townie now and as such at the least no more valuable than the rest, hopefully less valuable than some.

I'm the vig. Or I was, technically. I had planned to save my kill until BB jumped bodies, as a shaved knuckle so to speak. As some of you may know, I am a strong proponent of the vig role counting in the killers' favour balance-vise and as such decided it would be better that I didn't use my kill at all rather than taking out an inno. However, with the lack of a lynch I decided that my use of the kill power would benefit town, perhaps even if I hit an innocent. I've been doing my best to stay a less than attractive target for night kills, but it wont last forever I imagine.

So why did I go for Okaros? Well, I did a skim through the thread and found that the closest thing I came to a connection was Eloth and Okaros. In addition, his violent attack on Kessobahn was a little too certain. It sounded much like I would when playing scum and making a case so I felt good about my choice. Some of you have suggested guard or finder. There's no way in hell we've got a finder I'm quite sure. That would royally fuck up the balance of this game I think. A guard works much the same way, but he also blocks night kills so in all honesty I doubt one would have been included. I might be wrong of course, but it seemed unlikely to me.

If I did kill our power role though, feel free to mock me in spoiler heaven.

Now, considering how Okaros had been one of the lynch options I decided he would be a decent target even if I was wrong, and finally, since day 1 I've been sort of worrying that we could have gotten scum on the first lynch so this helped relieve my fears.

So that's that. Some of you might disagree, it would seem now that Kesso had been the better option.

Finally, some might ask why I didn't target Korlat, who's been my pet suspicion since day 1. I decided that if I was wrong Korlat's death would give us nothing new and as such I didn't want to risk it.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Sorrit, on 17 January 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Well, I see no reason not to do so. I'm a simple townie now and as such at the least no more valuable than the rest, hopefully less valuable than some.

I'm the vig. Or I was, technically. I had planned to save my kill until BB jumped bodies, as a shaved knuckle so to speak. As some of you may know, I am a strong proponent of the vig role counting in the killers' favour balance-vise and as such decided it would be better that I didn't use my kill at all rather than taking out an inno. However, with the lack of a lynch I decided that my use of the kill power would benefit town, perhaps even if I hit an innocent. I've been doing my best to stay a less than attractive target for night kills, but it wont last forever I imagine.

So why did I go for Okaros? Well, I did a skim through the thread and found that the closest thing I came to a connection was Eloth and Okaros. In addition, his violent attack on Kessobahn was a little too certain. It sounded much like I would when playing scum and making a case so I felt good about my choice. Some of you have suggested guard or finder. There's no way in hell we've got a finder I'm quite sure. That would royally fuck up the balance of this game I think. A guard works much the same way, but he also blocks night kills so in all honesty I doubt one would have been included. I might be wrong of course, but it seemed unlikely to me.

If I did kill our power role though, feel free to mock me in spoiler heaven.

Now, considering how Okaros had been one of the lynch options I decided he would be a decent target even if I was wrong, and finally, since day 1 I've been sort of worrying that we could have gotten scum on the first lynch so this helped relieve my fears.

So that's that. Some of you might disagree, it would seem now that Kesso had been the better option.

Finally, some might ask why I didn't target Korlat, who's been my pet suspicion since day 1. I decided that if I was wrong Korlat's death would give us nothing new and as such I didn't want to risk it.

Sweet.
I believe you unconditionally. Your reveal fits my thoughts on last night like a T. Your thoughts on the set-up mirror mine as well (no finder for certain), and I think with you out in the open, I'm quite convinced there is at most just 1 more roled player hidden. Now what are your thoughts on who is scum?

[Eloth]

Well why was Okaros so focused on Kesso then?

[Sorrit]

Well, I was hoping it was Okaros, and perhaps he was UB, but it seems a vain hope.

To be perfectly honest I'm unsure. Olar seems too angry and too disinterested to be scum. I've accepted I'll have to treat you as not scum as well.

That leaves:
Eloth
Silanah
Tulas
Karatallid
Kessobahn
Korlat

Silanah is a non entity, might have been better to remove her in all honesty, rather than Okaros.
Eloth is tied to Okaros in my mind, which doesn't mean anything unless no one comes up silenced.
Korlat, still my strongest gut feeling, but it's been wrong in the past and it might just be that she's simply a disinterested inno that handles pressure poorly.

I've not been able to tie Kesso to anyone, and there seems to be a tenuous connection between Karatallid and Tulas Shorn, but just like the voices such a connection might simply be in my head.

I only ever played the very first Bensen game, so I'm unsure whether there's some sort of dynamic that I'm missing.