[Khellendros]

I had a search through but suruprisingly I couldn't see this posted before.

So when Rilish first meets Peles outside his house on Quon Tali, he asks here where she's from. Her reply:

page 111 of Bantam hardback:

Quote

I am from south Genabackis...I saw action in the Free City campaigns. Then I served in the liaision contingent to the Moranth.

But then page 160, Rilish again asks her where she's from:

Quote

A land west of the region you name Seven Cities. A mountainous land of steep coasts...Perish, Fist.

Ok, I know that the Grey Swords and the Grey Helms appeared to be related to one another somehow, and it is perfectly plausible that those in south Genabackis, in Elingarth, are originally descended from colonisers originating in Perish lands.

But is this what this is implying? Or is it a total error whereby Peles appears to come from two places - and Rilish doesn't remember having asked her where she's from once already? Basically, why am I having to come up with roundabout reasoning? You would think that ICE's editors would be on this to ask him to clear this up - because the way it is written is confusing at best, and wrong at worst.

I just point this out because ICE's books tend to have quite a few errors which editors/proofreaders should be picking up.

[amphibian]

I can't answer the question, but:

Khellendros, on 29 September 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

I just point this out because ICE's books tend to have quite a few errors which editors/proofreaders should be picking up.

this is absolutely true.

I realize much of these books were written years and years ago, but there is an updating and quality review process that is not being met to the standards that we're used to in Erikson's work.

Here's hoping OST is better.

[tiam]

Khellendros, on 29 September 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

I had a search through but suruprisingly I couldn't see this posted before.

So when Rilish first meets Peles outside his house on Quon Tali, he asks here where she's from. Her reply:

page 111 of Bantam hardback:

Quote

I am from south Genabackis...I saw action in the Free City campaigns. Then I served in the liaision contingent to the Moranth.

But then page 160, Rilish again asks her where she's from:

Quote

A land west of the region you name Seven Cities. A mountainous land of steep coasts...Perish, Fist.

Ok, I know that the Grey Swords and the Grey Helms appeared to be related to one another somehow, and it is perfectly plausible that those in south Genabackis, in Elingarth, are originally descended from colonisers originating in Perish lands.

But is this what this is implying? Or is it a total error whereby Peles appears to come from two places - and Rilish doesn't remember having asked her where she's from once already? Basically, why am I having to come up with roundabout reasoning? You would think that ICE's editors would be on this to ask him to clear this up - because the way it is written is confusing at best, and wrong at worst.

I just point this out because ICE's books tend to have quite a few errors which editors/proofreaders should be picking up.

The actual question yes it seems plausible that theres a link between the two groups and to have them linked in such a way seems more than coincidental tbh. Shes associated with the wolves and names both geographical areas associated with wolf cults that it cant be conincidental.

At the same time I agree that this could be the roundabut way of thinking. Though tbf SE also needs a certain fan biased logic on his books sometimes and we interpret them favourable. The problem stems from the fact that ICE hadnt built up a level of fan loyalty by the time ROTCG came out and the original hardback version was so poorly edited that they gave free books to people to make up for it at PS Publishing. As a result any ICE mis edit is more harshly judged upon. I think its more noticeable in ICE because the reader is more conscious of it like with the mention of Kyle instead of Suth in one instance.

SE is usually forgiven these indiscretions such as Empress Lazeen in the DP of TBH.

[worry]

I think it's a mistake, pure and simple, and one of the bigger ones from either of them. ICE must have changed his mind at one point or another and didn't correct the other mention, and nobody who should have caught it did.

[Whiskey Bass]

Khellendros, on 29 September 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

I had a search through but suruprisingly I couldn't see this posted before.

So when Rilish first meets Peles outside his house on Quon Tali, he asks here where she's from. Her reply:

page 111 of Bantam hardback:

Quote

I am from south Genabackis...I saw action in the Free City campaigns. Then I served in the liaision contingent to the Moranth.

i thought she gave Rillish a glib answer here and told him her last campaign posting was here

But then page 160, Rilish again asks her where she's from:

Quote

A land west of the region you name Seven Cities. A mountainous land of steep coasts...Perish, Fist.

and here i thought peles had relaxed slightly with Rillish and told him her country of origin

Ok, I know that the Grey Swords and the Grey Helms appeared to be related to one another somehow, and it is perfectly plausible that those in south Genabackis, in Elingarth, are originally descended from colonisers originating in Perish lands.

But is this what this is implying? Or is it a total error whereby Peles appears to come from two places - and Rilish doesn't remember having asked her where she's from once already? Basically, why am I having to come up with roundabout reasoning? You would think that ICE's editors would be on this to ask him to clear this up - because the way it is written is confusing at best, and wrong at worst.

I just point this out because ICE's books tend to have quite a few errors which editors/proofreaders should be picking up.

[Kanese S's]

Interesting idea.

[Asharak]

"The problem stems from the fact that ICE hadnt built up a level of fan loyalty by the time ROTCG came out and the original hardback version was so poorly edited that they gave free books to people to make up for it at PS Publishing. "

Could anybody explain this in more detail, never heard this information before, whats the difference between versions.

[Whiskey Bass]

Orb Sceptre Boat, on 29 September 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:

Though tbf SE also needs a certain fan biased logic on his books sometimes and we interpret them favourable. The problem stems from the fact that ICE hadnt built up a level of fan loyalty by the time ROTCG came out

im late to the series, TCG release was the first i ever heard of Malaz. so ICE is as legitamate a source as SE for me and i have felt imo ICE has come in for a bit of a rough time with a lot of the regular posters.

the only ICE book i have stuggled with a bit was ROTCG, the rest i have enjoyed.

[D'rek]

amphibian, on 29 September 2011 - 08:40 PM, said:

I can't answer the question, but:

Khellendros, on 29 September 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

I just point this out because ICE's books tend to have quite a few errors which editors/proofreaders should be picking up.

this is absolutely true.

I realize much of these books were written years and years ago, but there is an updating and quality review process that is not being met to the standards that we're used to in Erikson's work.

Here's hoping OST is better.

I thought it was just NoK and RotCG that had been pre-written and SW was more or less entirely a new writing...?

j2tks, on 29 September 2011 - 09:46 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 29 September 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

I had a search through but suruprisingly I couldn't see this posted before.

So when Rilish first meets Peles outside his house on Quon Tali, he asks here where she's from. Her reply:

page 111 of Bantam hardback:

Quote

I am from south Genabackis...I saw action in the Free City campaigns. Then I served in the liaision contingent to the Moranth.

i thought she gave Rillish a glib answer here and told him her last campaign posting was here

But then page 160, Rilish again asks her where she's from:

Quote

A land west of the region you name Seven Cities. A mountainous land of steep coasts...Perish, Fist.

and here i thought peles had relaxed slightly with Rillish and told him her country of origin

Ok, I know that the Grey Swords and the Grey Helms appeared to be related to one another somehow, and it is perfectly plausible that those in south Genabackis, in Elingarth, are originally descended from colonisers originating in Perish lands.

But is this what this is implying? Or is it a total error whereby Peles appears to come from two places - and Rilish doesn't remember having asked her where she's from once already? Basically, why am I having to come up with roundabout reasoning? You would think that ICE's editors would be on this to ask him to clear this up - because the way it is written is confusing at best, and wrong at worst.

I just point this out because ICE's books tend to have quite a few errors which editors/proofreaders should be picking up.

That, or something similar along the lines of her lying first and being sincere the second, or the second time she is trying to say that her people are from there but she herself is from the first...

No matter which way you put it though, if ICE intended for her to say 2 different things the editors should have still caught it and gotten him to re-write one of them so its not such apparent lying (or if it is have rillish catch it).

[tiam]

Asharak, on 29 September 2011 - 11:01 PM, said:

"The problem stems from the fact that ICE hadnt built up a level of fan loyalty by the time ROTCG came out and the original hardback version was so poorly edited that they gave free books to people to make up for it at PS Publishing. "

Could anybody explain this in more detail, never heard this information before, whats the difference between versions.

While I didnt buy it, the original hardback limited edition of ROTCG was so poorly edited, to an extent where it affected peoples enjoyment of the book rather than just noticing a mistake, that the publishers, PS publishing, gave those who had bought it a free copy of I think either the third Bauchelain and Korbal Broach novella or the three in one book thats out now. I think the thread might even be stickied in the ROTCG forum.

The difference between versions is that the MMPB (mass market paperback) would have had these complaints noted and it would have thus been corrected. The people who bought it, alot of the people on this site for example, were outraged because the book was expensive yet had basic errors. This has led, in my opinion atleast, to some members of the board coming down harder on ICE than on SE in certain situations, though we all pay good money for these books so expect a competent level of proofreading and editing.

[Khellendros]

D, on 30 September 2011 - 12:05 PM, said:

amphibian, on 29 September 2011 - 08:40 PM, said:

I can't answer the question, but:

Khellendros, on 29 September 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

I just point this out because ICE's books tend to have quite a few errors which editors/proofreaders should be picking up.

this is absolutely true.

I realize much of these books were written years and years ago, but there is an updating and quality review process that is not being met to the standards that we're used to in Erikson's work.

Here's hoping OST is better.

I thought it was just NoK and RotCG that had been pre-written and SW was more or less entirely a new writing...?

SW was finished two years before it was published, according to one interview ICE did. Which makes me even less prone to forgive the disappointing, sudden ending, the lack of Stormrider explanation, etc, as he had two years to revise it and flesh it out.

But I do agree that the inconsistencies/errors in SE's works are generally met with a far more forgiving attitude than ICE's. I think this is partly down to fan loyalty, as has been said, which makes people more willing to come up with roundabout explanations for the inconsistencies, but also down to the fact that the books are just of greater quality overall anyway.

Nonetheless, I do think there was overall a huge improvement between RotCG and SW, and I hope for the same again in OST.

[Khellendros]

Finished my re-read of SW, and towards the end, Peles' origin reverts once again!

page 516 of the hardback:

Quote

After a time his gaze turned to Peles, where it rested while they ate. 'You are of Elingarth?' he asked finally.
The broad-boned woman almost blushed. 'Around there,' she muttered into her plate.
'I am surprised. It is rare for one of the military orders to strike out on his or her own.'
'There are those of us who are selected to travel, to learn other ways, other philosophies.'

[tiam]

This reference to Elingarth aswell as the one by Len or another veteran about how it would foolish to attack Elingarth makes me think it a hub for military orders. I hope we learn more in OST

[Salt-Man Z]

And if I recall, the Grey Swords (MoI) were originally from Elingarth.

[Abyss]

Wily Tuchuk, on 29 September 2011 - 09:46 PM, said:

...
page 111 of Bantam hardback:

Quote

I am from south Genabackis...I saw action in the Free City campaigns. Then I served in the liaision contingent to the Moranth.

i thought she gave Rillish a glib answer here and told him her last campaign posting was here

But then page 160, Rilish again asks her where she's from:

Quote

A land west of the region you name Seven Cities. A mountainous land of steep coasts...Perish, Fist.

and here i thought peles had relaxed slightly with Rillish and told him her country of origin

...

That's how i understood it. The p516 doesn't contradict it either.

Perhaps could have been clearer, but not a 'problem'.

- Abyss, had a harder time with Shul and Shool.

[Khellendros]

@ Abyss

"I am from south Genabackis" is less glib and more outright lie if she is actually from Perish. As I said in the OP, it's easy enough for us to reason out an semi-logical explanation ourselves, but should we really have to with this kind of thing? It is, I think, clearly an editorial mistake, as Rillish ask Peles the same question - i.e. where are you from? - twice in short succession.

[Abyss]

Khellendros, on 19 October 2011 - 01:25 AM, said:

@ Abyss

"I am from south Genabackis" is less glib and more outright lie if she is actually from Perish. ...

I don't disagree with you in that it's not as clear as it should be, but iirc we've seen any number of Malazan soldiers identify themselves first by their military origin, ie: Greymane's child soldiers, the Bridgeburners, the 5th, etc BEFORE getting into their actual origin, so it's not a complete break.

[Jonesy]

IIRC the Grey Swords are a mercenary company out of Elingarth, but they are originally from Perish like the Grey Helms. So i see no reason why all of her comments on her origin can't be accurate.