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Just finished Death Masks, and coin question. ya ya... spoilers

#1 User is offline   Marcule 

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 04:30 PM

The Dresden crack hooked me after book 3 and I read Summer Knight and Death Masks the past 2 days -- One click buy for Amazon kindle is EVIL!. Especially since I already one click buy'd the next book... Anyway, the end, he took the coin and ya - hole in the basement floor? Only 2 ft deep? Filled back in with cement that just says 'DIG ME UP!' Someone is obviously going to find it sooner or later. Just seems horribly retarded. Why take the coin in the first place instead of give it to Michale or the priest Whoitswhateverhisnamewas. Refuse it refuse it refuse it just to sang it up at the end. I must not be getting it. Seems like if thats how it was gonna be he could have just took it earlier and had breakfast.

If its a read and find out thing then thats all needs be said, otherwise help me out here.
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You live in a damned tower!
It's... expected of me. Isn't it?...
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#2 User is online   Aptorian 

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 04:40 PM

As for the hiding place, it hidden under a magical circle which should obscure it. That circle is the real hidding place, not the hole itself. As for the cement. I think that was for Dresdens benefit not any attempt to hide it or protect it from bad guys.

Regarding the coin, Dresden learned during the story, that just a momentary contact is enough to taint you. He knows that, and the Knights know that. Now, as good a friend as he is with Michael, he knows that the Knights clamp down hard on Fallen Angels and the possessed. So Dresden does what he always does, he deals with it on his own.
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#3 User is offline   Marcule 

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 04:54 PM

That doesn't explain why he took it instead of giving it to the Knights. My issue with the hole is it just screams for the curious to dig it up and find it. Magic circle or no, all one has to do it break the circle correct? Future tenant or construction... Hell if I moved in someplace and noticed someplace in the basement that had been dug up and filled in I'd dig it up. Even if Harry intends to leave it there forever, Harry won't be around forever.
...I'm not the best with heights, Sergent.
You live in a damned tower!
It's... expected of me. Isn't it?...
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#4 User is offline   weaverbird05 

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 06:23 PM

I don't think it was meant to be a "forever" solution - it masked its presence and removed it immediate contact with Dresden. So someone else wandering in and doing heavy construction to his heavily warded apartment and basement isn't much of an issue.
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#5 User is online   Aptorian 

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 06:24 PM

View PostMarcule, on 11 September 2011 - 04:54 PM, said:

That doesn't explain why he took it instead of giving it to the Knights.


Like I said. Any contact with the coin makes you susceptible to the Fallen Angels influence. Even if you deny the FA, it will still mark you. Once you come in contact there is nothing that can be done. No mortal man can be expected to hold against the whispers of a Fallen Angel.

Now imagine what Dresden was thinking after he picked up the coin. He's an extremely dangerous man, a full fledged wizard, and he has just been tainted by a Fallen Angel. What do you think he thought was going to happen if he went to Michael? He would expect Michael to either lop his head off then and there out of duty or confine Harry to some kind of imprisonment for the rest of his days out of kindness.

View PostMarcule, on 11 September 2011 - 04:54 PM, said:

My issue with the hole is it just screams for the curious to dig it up and find it.


Who might that curious person be? Nobody comes into Harry's apartment but a select few friends or associates. If you try to break and enter you get hit with Harry's super wards. Those that do enter his apartment have no business going into his basement. Even if they do, what do you think they're going to see? It's not like he would be dumb enough to leave an x-marks the spot. Most likely he filled in the hole and then smoothed out that entire section of floor with cement to make it look flat and unassuming. Harry's not dumb.

The only one who could possibly have an inkling off what Harry is hiding is the Fallen themselves. And they want him to have that coin.

View PostMarcule, on 11 September 2011 - 04:54 PM, said:

Magic circle or no, all one has to do it break the circle correct?


I admit I can't quite recall how those things work, but unless you're vanilla mortal, you shouldn't be able to break that circle. Well, you could but you'd need to be one hell of a beast to do it, in which case you probably don't need that coin in the first place. The point is, unless you're a powerhouse you're not getting into that apartment to start with.

View PostMarcule, on 11 September 2011 - 04:54 PM, said:

Future tenant or construction... Hell if I moved in someplace and noticed someplace in the basement that had been dug up and filled in I'd dig it up. Even if Harry intends to leave it there forever, Harry won't be around forever.


Harry didn't intend to leave it there for ever. He left it there for the time being until he figured out what the hell he was going to do. If anything. Like I mentioned, I don't think he burried it there to keep it safe from bad guys. I think he put it under 2 feet of concrete to make it less likely that he would himself pick it up again in a moments weakness.
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#6 User is offline   Marcule 

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 07:21 PM

I agree with everything except the part about Michale chopping his head off for taking the coin. All he has to do to appease Michale is drop the coin on the floor and claim redemption. Remember, Sanya himself was a victim of a fallen coin, and now he's a Knight. If Harry planned on taking the coin all along for some future purpose, like I said earlier, why not just take it the first time it was offered and have breakfast. He was sure he was going to die if he didn't take the coin, and flat out refused. Then later, 'Oh look a Fallen Angel coin! SWEET!' Because it would have ruined the rest of the story? It's just one of those inconsistencies that bothers me when I know it shouldn't, like a character doing something I feel is out of its idiom just to appease a plot point. Just seems cheesy I guess.

If it were a stand alone horror type story it would be a Stephen Kingish ending were the hero becomes the villain after going through all the trouble to save the day. Of course thats not the case but you get my meaning.

I'm sure something will come of it later on in the books in any case - Thank you for the reply's.
...I'm not the best with heights, Sergent.
You live in a damned tower!
It's... expected of me. Isn't it?...
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#7 User is offline   20 Days of Sheep 

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 08:33 PM

YOu said in your 1st post if its a read and find out that it would be fine basically. My advice to you after just reading the series back to back and being in your spot after DM is to do exactly that, read and find out. lol

I was myself fucking furious with Harry picking the coin up. Just read on my friend...
Drive by bye bye king on my dumb horse
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#8 User is offline   dawnkiller 

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:42 PM

A minor subthread of the Dresden books is that, as good as Harry is at thinking outside the box, sometimes he's so deep in the situation he loses perspective (which pays off in a much larger way in later books as the stakes get higher). If a decision is exceptionally stupid he'll usually get called on it. Either way, it's fine to think that Harry was a moron because most of the time it's intentional.

More immediately, there is the question of how much the taint affects the human host. It's said that the corruption starts with contact, and it's stated in DM that the Fallen's modus operandi is essentially a long seige against the conscience of the host by using what the host wants against them. Remember, when Michael tells Harry that the Fallen want him, we get this:

Quote

"Harry, please. I know that your life has not been an easy one. You're a good man. But you are as vulnerable as anyone. These enemies don't want you dead. They want you."

Which scared me. Really scared me. Maybe because it seemed to disturb Michael so much, and very little disturbs him. Maybe because I had seen Rasmussen, and would always be able to see him there, trapped, wildly laughing.

Or maybe it was because part of me wondered if it would be so impossible to find a way to use the power the coin obviously offered. If it had made some random schmuck on the way to pan fo rgold into a killing machine that it took all three Knights of the Cross to handle, what could someone like me do with it?

Beat the living snot out of Duke Paolo Ortega. That's for sure.


Harry had entertained the possibility of using a coin's power the moment he heard about it. And once his hand hit the coin, the Fallen would have found ample ground in which to grow, convincing Harry that maybe he should hang onto it . . . just in case.

But also remember that Harry closes the book with repeating Shiro's words about living in a world of grays and trusting his heart. This implies that some instinct or other told him to hang on to the coin, which could be either the Fallen's influence or genuine intution. It's open to interpretation, and there are arguments for it either way as the books progress.

(So yeah, RAFO.)
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#9 User is offline   McLovin 

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 08:44 PM

Just finished this book.

Loved it.

Best one so far.

(and yeah, I know, just wait till the next one...)
OK, I think I got it, but just in case, can you say the whole thing over again? I wasn't really listening.
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#10 User is offline   20 Days of Sheep 

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 10:17 PM

Yep and just think, youve got SO many more Dresden books to read, your not even at the half way mark yet. My personal fav was White Night. Tore through that one in 2 or 3 days.
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