[ajsr1982]

Just trying to get a grasp of what exactly is going on during a re-read.

The first thing that struck me was that they thought Kulp was a servant of 'The Chained One', so they know of The Crippled God, but what made them think that Kulp was in league with him? Did they assume that he was working with the Tiste Edur?

Secondly, why are they chasing the Tiste Edur? What do they know at this point?

Another thing that I noticed, was that Baudin kept his distance throughout the whole encounter. Anything in that?

Aslo, I actually thought the insane mage in this sequence may have been Hairlock, but I think I'm off the mark with that one!

[Abyss]

ajsr1982, on 31 August 2011 - 07:31 PM, said:

...The first thing that struck me was that they thought Kulp was a servant of 'The Chained One', so they know of The Crippled God, but what made them think that Kulp was in league with him? Did they assume that he was working with the Tiste Edur?

Possibly.

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Secondly, why are they chasing the Tiste Edur? ...

They aren't. More in later books.

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Another thing that I noticed, was that Baudin kept his distance throughout the whole encounter. Anything in that?

He's a careful man. Given his Talon link and the Imass link to the Malazan empire, there may be a professional caution element too.

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I actually thought the insane mage in this sequence may have been Hairlock, but I think I'm off the mark with that one!

Not Hairlock, but you're far from the only person who has thought that.

[Dream Theater]

I thought Hairlock was -decidedly- obliterated in GotM by the Hounds. If I'm wrong then...swing and a miss on my behalf.

I wanted to ask some more questions about this whole scene without starting a new thread. And, I'm guessing the answers will by and large be "read on", and that is just fine, but if there are some answers that I SHOULD have gleaned but did not, I'd appreciate enlightenment.

1. So Kulp, Felisin, etc were all in that warren that was flooded with the thick, milky water (...that sounded bad) b/c the crazed mage tore open a hole into that warren and sucked them all through, right? I thought I understood that someone said that the warren was not supposed to be flooded - that it was a grassy area...? Is this sounding right? How did the warren get flooded? Does it matter?
2. Who in the sweet hell was that dragon?
3. A few times in this book we are told about how Ascendants will take a mage's body and use it as a conduit to unleash their own power and will. This usually ends up killing the mage (though when the dragon used Kulp it clearly didnt kill him though it almost did). My question is does the mage conduit last beyond the life of the mage? In other words we are told that the crazed mage in the sky was trailing spouts of blood. Uh...you cant do that as a human for more than one or two good "spurts". Then during the Chain of Dogs a couple of the mages under...hell, forgot the lead mage's name...was it Soromo? He said a couple of his mages were used the same way and then died. Ultimately it doesnt matter too much I know but it would be interesting for me to understand if an Ascendant can basically use a human's body hours if not days after the soul has departed.

[worry]

1) RAFO
2) RAFO (though, perhaps as a bit of a prank on SE's part, the dragon is named in the Dramatis Personae and you can find it if you investigate long enough, as that character appears in no other scene in DG).
3) Interesting question. My guess is it's possible but situational.

[Kanese S's]

The first two questions are answered as you read further.

The third one... hmmm, I would guess that it is possible that a mage could continue serving as a conduit in this fashion even after dying, since in essence he becomes simply a portal really. Even under normal conditions, it seems like some of sorcery involves mages basically opening up pathways through themselves for whatever warren it is, and then when they're done blasting things or disguising things or whatever they're doing with their sorcery, they then close this pathway. In a normal circumstance, a mage dying would cause him to lose focus or some such, closing the pathway.

However, in this case, the pathway was basically forced open, and it was entirely beyond his choice to close it, even a subconscious choice like closing the conduit due to losing concentration, and it was the power itself that was killing him, so perhaps the pathway stayed open after his death due to this difference from the norm.

I guess what I'm thinking of is the situation being like a door. Ordinarily, using sorcery seems to me to be like opening a door, and then holding it open because it's of the type that shuts on its own if there is no one holding it. But in this situation, continuing the analogy, the door wasn't just opened, it was savagely torn off its hinges, and so now it doesn't matter that the person who would normally open and shut the door is dead/dying, as holding the door is no longer necessary to let things through the doorway.

[Dream Theater]

Makes sense to me! My only criticism of this approach is the inherent frailty that is the human body. The mage being flung about in the sky in DG had been spurting blood for at least a few hours. Granted, not incessantly I'm guessing but it sounds like quite a bit. I'm just a bit dubious as to how a mortal body could withstand the power surging from them in the scenes we see in DG. I'm not sure if Erikson ever goes into great detail on the mechanics of Warrens and magic in this series. Like:
1. Who/what created warrens?
2. Where exactly does the power of a warren originate from (ex: the Silanda is floating about in a warren and...there is nothing there that seems to generate power)
3. When a mage opens their warren, what exactly are they doing? Are they letting power seep out and then they mold it to their need? Do they simply imagine what they want done and through sheer force of will the magic does their bidding? Do they truly control their warrens or are the warrens sentient and capable of defiance? Can a warren open itself on a whim?

Ultimately I kinda hope that there are no answers to these questions. I'm one of those guys that would rather have brief and cursory explanations rather than getting too in depth b/c then I turn into a sour curmudgeon who needs to analyze and criticize. See above. Also, my question hardly requires an in-depth answer as it does not do a lot to enrich or subtract from the books.

Since I am clearly in a mood to babble on, I will share that I am absolutely losing my mind with how epic these books are. This story is incredible. Erikson is easily the finest, most intelligent author I have ever read and, while I am not so smug as to bore you with my reading credentials, suffice to say I enjoy reading and have done a bit of it before.

[worry]

Haha, it's funny you should say that, as one can argue that the status of warrens is one of the BIG IDEAS wrestled with throughout the series. Which isn't to say that you get so many answers that the mystery is ruined, but that it's definitely not left as "just how things are" so to speak.

[Sinisdar Toste]

MODGOD NOTICE OF REFERENCES TO LATER BOOKS DELETED
This is the DG forum.

the other two questions are very good ones, and like worrywort says, they get at one of the BIG IDEAS of the series, that being the metaphysical state of the realms. RAFO!

This post has been edited by Abyss: 07 August 2012 - 06:29 AM