[Abyss]

'Real' evolution suggests the cro-mags and homo erectus (shut up) co-existed, so it seems likely that humans, or an earlier version of them like the eres or the primitives the Deragoth domesticated were already around when the pre-ritual Imass were warring with the Jaghut.

The theory that humans descended from Imass isn't impossible, but it's fueled by some fairly ambiguous comments (GotM or MoI, by Tool i think) about the human First Empire following the Imass Empire, and the Whirlwind goddess' ravings in DG that humans were all Kilava's children.

The existance of the Brold clan who did the second Tellan Ritual also provides an explanation for what happened to the Imass kids. We know some Imass were galavbanting with the T3 and didn't make it at all, but others may have taken the kids and buggered off before things went undead.

[worry]

I agree with you, as far as my take goes, at least some post-Eresal humans are around by the time of the ritual. I mean Tool remembers seeing them, as a boy, though on the other hand Olar Ethil is feeding him false memories.

Anyway, I still think that leaves a whole lot of kids unaccounted for, regardless, so I like dreddiknight's idea even if we should factor it in as one of many layers to the story of what happened.

Also, as we know, in TCG Kilava herself refers to Trake as her son, and I think she may even have referenced birthing humans in general to Onrack or someone (RG? DoD?) but I can't remember the quote, could be wrong about that. Anyway, we also know that parenthood can be as muddy among ascendants as ascendancy itself, so I think even at this late stage in the series it's deliberately unclear how much magic, manipulation, and just plain old nature went into the evolution of humanity on Wu. And the fact that everyone can interbreed and produce viable offspring makes it even crazier. They're all a bunch of perverts in this series, frankly.

[Ozymandiac]

worrywort, on 04 April 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

I agree with you, as far as my take goes, at least some post-Eresal humans are around by the time of the ritual. I mean Tool remembers seeing them, as a boy, though on the other hand Olar Ethil is feeding him false memories.

Anyway, I still think that leaves a whole lot of kids unaccounted for, regardless, so I like dreddiknight's idea even if we should factor it in as one of many layers to the story of what happened.

Also, as we know, in TCG Kilava herself refers to Trake as her son, and I think she may even have referenced birthing humans in general to Onrack or someone (RG? DoD?) but I can't remember the quote, could be wrong about that. Anyway, we also know that parenthood can be as muddy among ascendants as ascendancy itself, so I think even at this late stage in the series it's deliberately unclear how much magic, manipulation, and just plain old nature went into the evolution of humanity on Wu. And the fact that everyone can interbreed and produce viable offspring makes it even crazier. They're all a bunch of perverts in this series, frankly.

I think it's entirely possible that post-Eres humans were already around at the First Ritual - but I would like to see the quote.

But even if they are, it still doesn't change the main point of the discussion whether the Imass killed their children around the time of the First Ritual. So even if we assume that the Imass are progenitors to the humans only in a cultural and figurative way, and that the humans did not evolve from them but purely from other species such as the Eres... Then still, doesn't it seem more likely that the Imass A) gave the children to neighbouring friendly tribes of TTT or B] just left them behind to survive on their own? The Imass were a people of hunters and gatherers, they learnt skills at a young age. Is it that far-fetched to assume that the Imass children would be able to survive on their own? I think a combination of A and B is a LOT more likely than that they would kill their own offspring.

This post has been edited by Ozymandiac: 04 April 2013 - 08:58 AM