[Kanese S's]

So, when we start off Gardens of the Moon, Lorn is already Adjunct.

After her, Tavore is appointed to the position. Interestingly enough, in Return of the Crimson Guard, it appears that Laseen has not replaced Tavore, but that's another question.

Previously, did Laseen always have an Adjunct? Also, Kellanved is never mentioned as having an Adjunct. Was the post created by Laseen then?

I know, it's not really important to the plot, but it's just one of those things I'm curious about. Well, one of the more serious things I'm curious about.

[Seras]

I recall Stormy being an Adjutant in Kellanved's time, only to be demoted to his current position, so I doubt the post was created by Laseen.

[HoosierDaddy]

Adjutant is different than Adjunct in that nearly all commanders have adjutants for administrative purposes, while Adjunct seems to be a quasi-mix between being the adjutant and a subordinate while also being the voice of the ruler such that they are far higher ranking than most adjutants. Fine line of distinction, but one to be drawn.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 21 July 2011 - 05:16 AM

[Kanese S's]

Adjunct, not Adjutant.

[Kanese S's]

HoosierDaddy, on 21 July 2011 - 05:15 AM, said:

Adjutant is different than Adjunct in that nearly all commanders have adjutants for administrative purposes, while Adjunct seems to be a quasi-mix between the adjutant being a subordinate and voice of the ruler such that they are far higher ranking than most adjutants. Fine line of distinction, but one to be drawn.

Indeed. The implication, at least the way it seemed to me, was that Adjunct Lorn, and later Adjunct Tavore, pretty much were considered to speak with nearly the same authority as the Empress, such that even a High Fist or High Mage would have to follow her commands.

[worry]

I am under the impression that the position was created by Laseen, and that Lorn is the first. Laseen hasn't been empress for that long, and Lorn seems to have enough experience that she must have had the position a while. Kel didn't need one, having Dancer as a partner as well as the entire Old Guard. I'm not suggesting he trusted everybody, only that Laseen's paranoia is even stronger, and for legit reason.

[Use Of Weapons]

I think it's pretty obvious why Laseen didn't replace Tavore, given the events of RG

[Kanese S's]

How old is Lorn? Isn't she a bit young to be the first? I can't quite remember how much time passes between the prologue of GotM (also the entirety of NoK), and the events in the rest of GotM.

[Kanese S's]

UseOfWeapons, on 21 July 2011 - 09:31 AM, said:

I think it's pretty obvious why Laseen didn't replace Tavore, given the events of RG

Er, I don't follow? Tavore (along with the 14th Army) is already gone by the start of RotCG. Yet Laseen does not have a new Adjunct in that book. Why not? Lorn was replaced fairly quickly after her services were no longer available. Perhaps Laseen had not yet found an adequate replacement for Tavore yet?

[Use Of Weapons]

IMO it's due to the failure of Lorn and the betrayal of Tavore turning Laseen's already paranoid mind against giving anyone else that kind of power/closeness.

[D'iversify]

Appointing an Adjunct would almost certainly have destabilised her fragile 'alliance' with Korbolo Dom and Mallick Rel, as they would have perceived it as a challenge to their newly estabilshed powerbase.

[Kanese S's]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation, that makes total sense. Rel and Dom would not have liked basically another person with more legal power than they running around. Though, it seems like the Adjunct's job mostly consists of going elsewhere while the Empress stays in the capital.

And after the events of TB, I guess it makes sense that she'd be too paranoid to appoint anyone else to that position. I would say that it wasn't Tavore who betrayed the Empress, though. Seemed the other way around to me.

[Use Of Weapons]

Well, yes, but that's hardly how she's going to see it, is it.

[Kanese S's]

Too true. Though I always thought that surely in some way she would be able to see that she'd forced Tavore into an impossible choice.

[Feathersmith]

Kanese S, on 21 July 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

Too true. Though I always thought that surely in some way she would be able to see that she'd forced Tavore into an impossible choice.

Yeah, I got the impression that she understood the tricky situation she was in there, with the threats posed by Korbolo Dom and Mallick Rel (I still do not understand how or why she ever let those creeps out of the lockup, let alone keep their lives after what went down in Seven Cities).

[worry]

Only Dom was imprisoned, IIRC, while Rel returned to the empire as something of a hero...he used this leverage to spring Dom -- crafting a palatable story of misunderstanding --- and shifted the balance of power away from Laseen in the same stroke.

[worry]

Kanese S, on 21 July 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

How old is Lorn? Isn't she a bit young to be the first? I can't quite remember how much time passes between the prologue of GotM (also the entirety of NoK), and the events in the rest of GotM.

She's definitely young, but only too young to be the first if Laseen created the position right away, which isn't necessarily the case. It's never stated to be the case, anyway, else Lorn would likely have mentioned a predecessor. But she's had the position at least a few years, I'd imagine, as her reputation ranges far and wide, and she's entirely secure in her position and abilities. Which doesn't mean she's not still "green" relative to many others; Tays certainly seems to feel pretty fresh sympathy for her.

[LordofTheFallen]

I'm suprised laseen allowed dom and rel to screw her so. Here we have a woman who was a master assassin and killed off most of her companions for the throne, yet when two guys (one of which is already blamed and imprisoned for the SC rebellion) show up and try to take it away, she offers almost no resistance. True, the claw was corrupted and rel had all his wards, but if she had to she could have smeared herself in otataral and killed him by hand. Then executed dom afterwards.

I really don't see how rel was able to simply walk in and take the control away from someone as powerful and ruthless as her.

[D'rek]

Lorn was 11 just before Laseen took the throne, so in GotM she'd be in her early 20s.

As far as the role of Adjunct, remember that the way Tavore used the role was not exactly its proper job description. The Adjunct was not a military commander, (s)he was an investigator as well as judge, jury and executor for the Empress. IMO, I think Laseen intended the Adjunct to perform similar duties to how Dancer served the Emperor.

[Daemonwolf]

from malazan wiki"

The Empress employed a single Adjunct at a time as her personal servant and an extension of her will. The Adjunct had the authority to speak with the voice of the Empress, overriding the chain of command. She was also considered a special weapon against sorcery, wielding a sword made of otataral as a symbol of her office.


I seem to recall that in gardens of the moon its explained that the Adjunct is a the will and authority of the Empress in her absence. Which makes sense as the definition of adjunct has to do with 'standing in place of' in a non permanent capacity. feel free to look up the definition for a accurate definition.