[Aooga]

Without having looked very carefully I could not spot any thread topic discussing the overall universe of Brandon Sanderson aka the cosmere.
So decided to create this thread to hopefully get answers to my own n00b questions and may be enlighten others.

#####SPOILERS for all the following books: Elantris, Mistborn, Warbreaker and The Way of Kings###
BIG TITTIED SPOILERS WITH SPOILERS IMPLANTS!!

ok you've been warned

So it's no secret that BS is planning some overarching plot to connect all his various novels written to date (not including WoT (yet) or those kid books). What we know so far is that at least one character makes an appearance in all the books, namely Hoid. Who or what he is is anyone's guess. What's clear is that he's some kind of planet hopper. I think that's all that's really clear. Ok we also know about the shards but....what do we know about the shards really? A shard is weapon, an entity, an elemental being what exactly? There are plenty of discussions on other boards where the speculation goes completely over my head as I just don't have a clear idea of all the reference points.

So, I guess what I'd first like to ask of those fans with very strong quote fu are book and page references for:

- all mentions of Hoid in Elantris, Warbreaker and Mistborn.
- all mentions of the cosmere and these so called 'shards' in all the books. Some of these are pretty obscure. e.g. one of those chapter headers in tWoK makes mention of a name that just happens to be the same as the being Ruin in Mistborn (apparently it was his original name.

aaaaaand..go!

This post has been edited by Aooga: 17 September 2012 - 12:30 PM

[Silk]

What was said above for me to....

I can't remeber Hoid from any of the books

[RolandDeschain]

I remember Hoid from Elantris and Warbreaker, but wasn't he also in The Way of Kings? Its been a while since I read TWoK but wasn't Hoid a character that had a conversation with Kaladin before or after a battle. I remember Kaladin sitting down with this person and talking, cant remember what?? I though that was Hoid.

TWoK was my first Brandon Sanderson book, I knew nothing of Hoid or the Cosmere back then. Only after reading the book that I learned about Hoid and then noticed him in Elantris and Warbreaker.

This post has been edited by RolandDeschain: 29 July 2011 - 01:13 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

So far, Hoid has been in each of brandon's series'.

in Mistborn, he's an informant that Vin ends up not talking to for no reason other than her 'instincts'. though i'm inclined to believe that was ruin's influence talking, as hoid obviously knows a lot about him

in elantris and warbreaker he's a storyteller, yes? i haven't read those for a while.

in WoK he is the King's Wit, and apparently one of the books in tSA will feature his POV, which should kick ass

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 29 July 2011 - 05:56 PM

[QuickTidal]

Yeah, I also remember Hoid from Mistborn, but I missed him in Elantris (as that was my first Sanderson and I wasn't looking for him yet), and Warbreaker, but I think he's most present and clear in TWOK when he has his convo with Kaladin on the Shattered Plains especially.

The Shards are interesting, in fact there is a whole website called the http://www.17thshard.com/ where they discuss the cosmere at length. I seem to recall something about Preservation and Ruin in Mistborn are shards. Basically the idea being that all the magics from the different worlds would have their beginnings with the Shards which is why I think that Stormlight will probably shed the most light on them...but I could be wrong. Seeing as it's Sanderson's lifelong epic series baby though it seems plausible we'll get much more with the next installment in the SLA.

that's all I've got.

EDIT: Here's a link with some info put together on the Cosmere.

http://www.17thshard...91-cosmere-101/

This post has been edited by King Kazma: 29 July 2011 - 06:11 PM

[Werthead]

Yeah, Hoid has been in every one of Sanderson's adult fantasy novels. WoT is not part of it and never will be, since Sanderson is doing work for hire on that series and it would not be appropriate to link it in with Jordan's work. Alcatraz is also not part of it.

Something very interesting that Sanderson said a long time ago:

Spoiler

There are two people called Hoid, a master and his apprentice who took over his name when the original Hoid died. From the look of it, the Hoid in ELANTRIS, WARBREAKER and MISTBORN is the original Hoid, but the younger-looking Hoid in WAY OF KINGS is the apprentice (though he may also be the original Hoid but earlier in his lifespan).

According to Sanderson his books are a bit like Stephen King's multiverse: stand-alone, readable series in their own right, but there will (eventually) be a book or series of books explaining all the links, fulfilling the function that THE DARK TOWER does in King's mythology (so you can read THE STAND and EYE OF THE DRAGON as individual novels, but then DARK TOWER shows how Randall Flagg links the two books together and furthers Flagg's story in THE DARK TOWER itself). At different times he's said the DRAGONSTEEL series (seven books, which he probably won't work on until after STORMLIGHT ARCHIVE, so maybe still a decade off in the future) or a single novel called just HOID will explain everything.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 31 July 2011 - 08:47 PM

[Morgoth]

I love it when authors do this stuff.

[Dravon]

While I only learned about the Cosmere a few weeks ago. This does explain (something which I had thought to be just his writing style)why the Lashings of tWoK felt so very similar to the pushing and pulling of metalurgy of Mistborn. I should of given him more credit as a writer, then to have just assumed. I wonder if we will see kaladin beginning to subtley effect the emotions of those around him?

[Held]

 Dravon, on 03 August 2011 - 05:12 AM, said:

While I only learned about the Cosmere a few weeks ago. This does explain (something which I had thought to be just his writing style)why the Lashings of tWoK felt so very similar to the pushing and pulling of metalurgy of Mistborn. I should of given him more credit as a writer, then to have just assumed. I wonder if we will see kaladin beginning to subtley effect the emotions of those around him?

I like this idea because I think he already is unknowingly effecting the emotions of those around him. If he figures out that he can do this, wow.

[Sinisdar Toste]

 Held, on 25 August 2011 - 04:12 AM, said:

 Dravon, on 03 August 2011 - 05:12 AM, said:

While I only learned about the Cosmere a few weeks ago. This does explain (something which I had thought to be just his writing style)why the Lashings of tWoK felt so very similar to the pushing and pulling of metalurgy of Mistborn. I should of given him more credit as a writer, then to have just assumed. I wonder if we will see kaladin beginning to subtley effect the emotions of those around him?

I like this idea because I think he already is unknowingly effecting the emotions of those around him. If he figures out that he can do this, wow.

if this does happen, i think it would be a more indirect effect of his radiant powers. there's a possibility that there are powers in roshar that can directly affect emotions, but from what info we have after WoK, i'm not prepared to accept that kaladin has those powers. his force of personality, his generosity as well as his superhuman abilities are what combine to affect his companions.

[JPK]

 Werthead, on 31 July 2011 - 08:45 PM, said:

Spoiler

There are two people called Hoid, a master and his apprentice who took over his name when the original Hoid died. From the look of it, the Hoid in ELANTRIS, WARBREAKER and MISTBORN is the original Hoid, but the younger-looking Hoid in WAY OF KINGS is the apprentice (though he may also be the original Hoid but earlier in his lifespan).

Been reading Warbreaker and I found a couple of bits on Hoid in there that seemed very important.

Spoiler

"The storyteller waited patiently. As she looked more closely, she could tell he wasn't quite as old as he appeared at first glance. The beard must be a badge of his profession, and while it didn't appear to be fake, she suspected that it had been bleached. He was really much younger then he wanted to appear."

This seems to point to it being younger Hoid in warbreaker.

The second bit that stuck in my head though seems almost even more important.

"Thank you," Siri said quietly. "It was good of you to speak of it. Tell me, where did you learn such an ... unusual method of storytelling?"
Hoid looked up, smiling. "I learned it many, many years ago from a man who didn't know who he was, Your Majesty. It was a distant place where two lands meet and gods have died. But that is unimportant."

Just makes me wonder just how important this little bit is going to turn out to be in the long run.

[Macros]

Last bit of that spoiler sounds like it could describe the start of stormlight

[Werthead]

I was searching for Hoid in ALLOY OF LAW and didn't spot him (but that means nothing, as I also missed him in the second MISTBORN book). Then I read the appendix and laughed my head off, as the appendix is written by Hoid and even compares Scadrial's magic system to that of the planet ELANTRIS takes place on (Sel). Nicely done by Sanderson.

EDIT: Ah, Hoid does put in an appearance:

Spoiler

He's the scruffy beggar in black that people are talking to at the wedding.

EDIT2: Oh, interesting. Apparently there's several other characters who cross over between worlds:

Spoiler

Galladon in ELANTRIS is the guy called Temoo or Grump in WAY OF KINGS. Demoux, a captain in Kelsier's army (and a general in Elend's) in MISTBORN also appears in WAY OF KINGS as a guy called Thinker. Demoux, Thinker and another guy called Blunt (or sometimes 'Vao') are members of the 17th Shard, a secret organisation which is trying to track Hoid down across the worlds. Blunt/Vao is apparently a character from another world who hasn't appeared in his original setting yet.

EDIT3: Oh yes, there's also a letter in WAY OF KINGS which mentions Ati/Ruin (from MISTBORN) and events on Sel (from ELANTRIS' backstory) and seems to indicate the central conflict of STORMLIGHT ARCHIVE will have huge ramifications for the entire Cosmere, not just Roshar.

Some additional clarification on future plans:

After finishing AMoL, Sanderson will get straight into STORMLIGHT #2. He'll then write STORMLIGHT #3-5, but interspersed with one or two more short Wax/Wane MISTBORN side-books. He will then write the second MISTBORN trilogy in its entirety, and then STORMLIGHT #6-10, interspersed with either other short side-books or maybe WARBREAKER II, which he'll write gradually and post online as a work in progress, like he did with WB1. After STORMLIGHT is concluded, he will then write the third and final MISTBORN trilogy, which will apparently feature Hoid more heavily (based on WAY OF KINGS Hoid and the Cosmere setting will play a larger role in the rest of STORMLIGHT anyway). The MISTBORN III trilogy will apparently focus on magic-generated FTL travel, which may have time-distortion effects and explain how characters can cross between worlds and apparently not age.

There will also be a seven-book series called DRAGONSTEEL to come after STORMLIGHT and MISTBORN III which sounds like it will go right back to the start of the Cosmere and feature the shattering of Adonalsium as a major plot point. This is way, way off, however (we are talking maybe 2027-28 before Brandon puts out the first book, assuming he keeps to one book a year and is not delayed by any further projects).

EDIT4: Apparently Sanderson evisages 36 books for the Cosmere setting. We are currently 6 books into that, so lots more to come.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 18 February 2012 - 01:29 AM

[Orlion]

Clever bastard! *grumble* Now I may have to read beyond his Mistborn trilogy *grumble*

[QuickTidal]

I've only caught Hoid in first reads of STORMLIGHT (obviously), and WARBREAKER and utterly missed him in the other material...and when I keep reading about these hints it always makes me want to do a re-read with the cosmere in mind as I do.

One day. Possibly before the next STORMLIGHT book comes out.

[End of Disc One]

Hoid is also a fairly important character in The Emperor's Soul though he doesn't appear on screen.

[Obdigore]

Ok, Spoilers for Words of Radiance

Spoiler

Hoid is back, clearly. He says he is willing to sacrifice the entire world that this series is on to meet his goals, and that if the evil one (Can't remember the name right now) finds him, he will leave him broken and twisted. Since humans die and spren don't, I'm guessing Hoid is some sort of Uber-Spren, much like the Stormfather, who can be broken but not killed, since spren are technically ideas.

Also have another 'god', but that might be one of original radiants, or it might be something else. Rock has also mentioned meeting a god, which is how he has the ability to see Syl when she isn't purposely showing herself.

And then there is 'dawnshards' which make me think of some sort of controlling mechanism that was shattered by the evil one when the Cosmere was shattered? Plus Jasnah states that either the 'spren' world or the human one were created by the other, I don't recall and am going to have to read that part again. That makes me think some sort of super-powerful creation magic that we haven't seen yet.

Also, Vasher/Zahel and Nightblood are in WoR (from 17th Shard, and I utterly agree with it)

This post has been edited by Possibly Brent Weeks: 06 March 2014 - 06:10 AM

[A Demon Llama!]

Is Steeheart also part of the interconnected universe Sanderson is creating? Did Hoid or anyone else show up in that book in any form? Also, Sanderson is a writing machine, creating books left and right. I do believe that his plans to write the next 43 books will probably happen.

[Werthead]

No. Steelheart and its sequels, Legion, the Alcatraz books and WoT (clearly) are all outside the Cosmere universe, as are the other YA series he has planned.

As for how WoR fits into the Cosmere, I think we have a better idea at the end of the book (I'm on page 900, so still not done yet).

Spoiler

Rayse, the holder of the Shard Odium, had killed several other Shardholders (Devotion and Dominion on Sel, the ELANTRIS/EMPEROR'S SOUL planet) but was finally imprisoned in Roshar's star system. The 17th Shard - the 'supergroup' keeping tabs on WTF is going on and unhappy with Hoid going off on his own - seems fairly happy with this arrangement. Hoid/Wit seems less happy with it, as Odium can still cause merry hell on the three inhabitated planets in Roshar's system (Odium actually isn't on Roshar itself, and seems to be barred from it as well, hence the fears he can regain access to it). Whether Hoid is planning to kill Rayse directly is unclear, although this tactic - slaying Shardholders - seems to be of limited effectiveness, as someone else can just seize the Shard. Unless they pull a MISTBORN and combine Shards together into something new (where Ruin and Preservation were combined into Harmony), Hoid's ambitions seem to be a bit puzzling at the moment.

The odd thing is that, according to Sanderson, the Stormlight Archive series is set in the Cosmere but should still be treating all the Cosmere stuff like Easter Eggs. But in the two books so far, it appears to be far more closely connected than that, especially with:

Spoiler

The sword from WARBREAKER showing up at the end.

I wonder if Sanderson is considering making STORMLIGHT, which is going to be the longest series set in the Cosmere, more central than he previously thought.

[End of Disc One]

This image gallery is the best summary I've seen of the different shards. Major spoilers: https://imgur.com/gallery/jaJX7KC

Highly recommended for anyone interested in this kind of thing.

This post has been edited by End of Disc One: 13 May 2020 - 12:56 PM