[Hood's Path]

On a game critique note, it is an interesting set up and the factions are close to what I would have expected. However, you have in part taken away one of the only roles an RI has. There are two things an Ri can do to help their team win. They can debate on thread, trying to out those whose deaths are part of their VC, and they can vote. If I had known that the only way an important lynch I was part of would matter was if a specific person from another faction was in on it, I probably would have mailed this game in.

[drinksinbars]

poor roldom thought of killing me as not to kill the other omtose voter and i had started a case on him after he put his night action in

[Tapper]

Hood, on 29 June 2011 - 01:05 AM, said:

Quick question, there is no FM in game but the lack of player CF and the setting could suggest one (Shifter) so are we to post here in alts or can we ditch them now?

you can ditch 'm

[Tapper]

Hood, on 29 June 2011 - 03:01 AM, said:

On a game critique note, it is an interesting set up and the factions are close to what I would have expected. However, you have in part taken away one of the only roles an RI has. There are two things an Ri can do to help their team win. They can debate on thread, trying to out those whose deaths are part of their VC, and they can vote. If I had known that the only way an important lynch I was part of would matter was if a specific person from another faction was in on it, I probably would have mailed this game in.

which is why we didn't tell people that In a faction game, it is all different anyway as smokescreening becomes way more important and RIs can really go to town doing that.
Mind you, the power of the regular people goes up once a big guy drops.

[Path-Shaper]

Liosan, on 28 June 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

Lets go ahead and put a provisional on enchant Mockra

next - Mockra was the only one that caught up on the Raven thing (never read the books, but it looked like a minor find, by someone with that role...)Trying to say, hey! I am Raven, and a part of the BC!!! So is the white Rose!! I dunno, a shot in the dark. At least Tellan made it through.

noted!

[Path-Shaper]

Anthras, on 29 June 2011 - 06:46 AM, said:

OK, headed to bed, reaffirming:

Kill Mockra

If he's lynched while I'm away ...

Kill Ampelas

Might be a bad move, it's just a hunch.

For spoilers: Looks like my faction lost one, if I'm reading Korbas's info right. It just seems strange that "Soulcatcher" is a faction, instead of a Role. Makes me wonder if they were on my team.

Also, I probably won't survive the Night. There are too many NKs out there, and Barghast has actually brought my name up, so I'm probably a dead man. Come to think of it, I should probably kill Barghast, there's something not ringing right about him, starting with his low posting ... fuck, I may change my action if I wake tomorrow and Day's not done.

noted!

- T

[Path-Shaper]

Tellan, on 28 June 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

Tellan, on 28 June 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

... ops?

Hmpf.. I went for Eloth because he seemed to be signaling to Korbas (think it was korbas). I figured that it would be better to target him first so that if he was on my team I would know not to go for Korbas as he'd be a more important role on the same.

However, if Eloth did signal Korbas then the likeliest explanation is that Korbas is the Lady. Meaning I should have gone for the Lady right away. However, what if Korbas is another taken. Even less of my team around then I reckon.

Fuck it. There seems to be no way for me to aquire proper information anyway, so I can't really plan no matter.

Kill Korbas

Noted. Glad to see you still love me, Morghy

- T

Also, acquiring information can perhaps not be done by you, but can be done by others? Y'know, teamwork and all that?

[Path-Shaper]

Mockra, on 29 June 2011 - 04:19 AM, said:

now, you know, i'm not the one to question the mods' decisions during the game (I reserve the right to bitch and moan about the design once the game is done)



but i can't for the life of me see how we are expected to play this without a CF. At least how the RIs such as myself are supposed to play this.



as such, i'll just sit tight, untill someone decided to recruit me, and make no waves whatsoever.

Tis a bit of a novel thing and I admire Lizra's guts to implement it. Rest assured tho, there is a role for you to play

- T.

[Tapper]

I guess lizra has just arrived as I was kicked out of P-S repeatedly

[dktorode]

Vengeance, on 26 June 2011 - 04:38 PM, said:

Bent as the dominator with DKT as his symp is a tough combo. Should be a good game.

I didnt know who the dominator was...so symp is maybe not the right term

[Path-Shaper]

Yes I'm here.

Liz

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 29 June 2011 - 07:36 AM

[dktorode]

No CF and no info on who my leader/team might be or anything?... No reference point to work from kinda makes it a rondom lynch fest.

Anyone care to explain the reasoning?

[Path-Shaper]

dktorode, on 29 June 2011 - 07:41 AM, said:

No CF and no info on who my leader/team might be or anything?... No reference point to work from kinda makes it a rondom lynch fest.

Anyone care to explain the reasoning?

WEll, the game balance can shift very easily this game and I don't wanted everyone to know what game is down.
But mostly I left the CF away because of gut feeling and curiosity.

Liz

[dktorode]

Think of it from my point of view.

I dont get any indication of who is on my team in my role.
And i cant ever get conformation of who is or isnt on my team on thread.
Then how am i supposed to proceed?....

You need at the least one reference point to work with in order to start determining other people's allegiances.
Nothing plus nothing equals nothing.
This is just going to be one huge random killfest if you ask me...

just sayin

This post has been edited by dktorode: 29 June 2011 - 10:23 AM

[Path-Shaper]

dktorode, on 29 June 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:

Think of it from my point of view.

I dont get any indication of who is on my team in my role.
And i cant ever get conformation of who is or isnt on my team on thread.
Then how am i supposed to proceed?....

You need at the least one reference point to work with in order to start determining other people's allegiances.
Nothing plus nothing equals nothing.
This is just going to be one huge random killfest if you ask me...

just sayin

Fair enough.

Liz

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 29 June 2011 - 01:08 PM

[Tapper]

dktorode, on 29 June 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:

Think of it from my point of view.

I dont get any indication of who is on my team in my role.
And i cant ever get conformation of who is or isnt on my team on thread.
Then how am i supposed to proceed?....

You need at the least one reference point to work with in order to start determining other people's allegiances.
Nothing plus nothing equals nothing.
This is just going to be one huge random killfest if you ask me...

just sayin

Well, at the least there are plenty of kills

I see what you're saying and I'll agree that this is always a danger when going with minimal starting info. We might have had to make things a tiny increment easier, perhaps. Thing is, this isn't a regular faction game either and information is available for those who search, but that takes time. The way the thread is going right now, I think there is quite a chance that they're going to lynch the guy providing the CFs simply because they fear being misdirected more than they like seeing potentially false information.

Moreover, those who can kill are not waiting for info to become available either. Instead, they succumb to the tendency to use a kill uninformed just because they consider collateral irrelevant (or think they can make up for it by killing moar!) and think there is no cost involved in using the kill, never once assuming factions are uneven or abilities can be unique.

They're playing as if they're scum in a town vs scum game and I expect they think they can seal the game that way in a massive solo effort. Essentially, they didn't wait to learn anything about the game by holding their kill and waiting for CFs or finds to be shown, and just started killing blindly, which is not the best move in a game where it is announced that there is recruitment and in which there is also a massive, massive chance that factions are uneven at the start.

Now, the question is, should game design factor in a player tendency to feel invincible and therefore use a dumb strategy or should design try for something new? Lizra's a new mod. It is only natural she tries to bring her own flavor and ideas to the game, and well, I'm hardly someone who does everything by the book without experimenting either

When Lizra gave me the set-up I had some concerns about the power of the big three. I had no real qualms about the information available to players or the amount of info that could come available, though. If anything, this game needs time and game evaluation from the players, but what you see right now from thread and PMs is that they don't give themselves time but expect the mod to hand some more hints to them.

The way I saw the set-up, well, there is a CF dude who can make himself too important to die but through that also makes himself a prime recruit target by his ability, which he is allowed to reveal. That restores/replaces regular CF unless he bites it night 1. There is a cult chain of command once recruitment starts, and there are a few people who know each other, more and more becoming available as the game progresses. There is a numerically strong faction that is not united but has a very simple goal and that can play as if they are town in a town vs scum game. That faction too can be harnessed easily as Whisper (if she survives) can reveal who the White Rose is as the result of an ability, which is very powerful, upon finding her. Raven could do the same, and that would unite the mass of recruitables.

In that, the game is not too different from several others, imho, which also always relies on players figuring things out and misdirecting one another, with little to no knowledge at the start. In that, it is not unlike a lot of past games from the early era of Malazan Mafia.

[Tapper]

Anyway, we'll get to the end-game faster than people expected during sign-up, I guess

[dktorode]

Tapper, on 29 June 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

Moreover, those who can kill are not waiting for info to become available either. Instead, they succumb to the tendency to use a kill uninformed just because they consider collateral irrelevant (or think they can make up for it by killing moar!) and think there is no cost involved in using the kill, never once assuming factions are uneven or abilities can be unique.

Those who can kill?...like my role a suicide vig... Collateral would be VERY relevant in my case

With no way of me ever determining who is who, it was always going to be a shot in the dark....meh

[dktorode]

Tapper, on 29 June 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

The way I saw the set-up, well, there is a CF dude who can make himself too important to die but through that also makes himself a prime recruit target by his ability, which he is allowed to reveal.

ok...didn't know there was guy with the CF's...but he could eat it early... or maybe he doesnt even reveal anything.
If he doesnt, making the rest of us and the people in the other factions flounder... would kinda suck for everyone else..

My point wasn't that there was no CF....i dont mind no cf....but if i also have absolutely nothing to go by in my role PM..then what am i supposed to do?... i wasnt even 100% sure who's team i was on....*shrugg*

This post has been edited by dktorode: 29 June 2011 - 02:44 PM

[dktorode]

Tapper, on 29 June 2011 - 01:39 PM, said:

Anyway, we'll get to the end-game faster than people expected during sign-up, I guess

Hey i aint complaining...just discussing the setup.