[Avatar]

Being on a holiday trip, I have plenty of time to do my first re-read of GotM. (I am also halfway through TCG by now.)

Must say I love all of the foreshadowing, to read so much about characters and races that will have a big roles in the latter books. It also seems that GotM is a more tightly written book, in some ways I like it better than some of the latter books.

Some things that I am more critical about: first is Lorn and the story around her. I like the idea of a adjunct, second in command to the empress who has a old grudge against the mage (Tattersail) who killed her family when she was young. But from the second mightiest person in the whole empire (and a former Claw) I expect a bit more discipline when she meets that mage. But Lorn draws her sword and is ready to kill the mage at once.
Later, when she travels with Tool to the Barrow where the Jaghut tyrant is bound, she sees Crocus, Murillio, Coll and Kruppe. On her own (Tool is not in sight at that moment), she attacks the 4 men. She comes away with it, drives them back to Darujhistan, but if she would have been killed or injured, the whole mission would have been lost. For a start, I wouldn't think it wise to send the second-in-command alone with a T'lan Imass on this mission: the goals of the T'lan are for a great deal unclear, and a single bodyguard is apparently not enough (Tool doesn't intervene on some crucial points in the story.) And Lorn seems like an amateur to me, and her mission awfully planned. The story tells she is young, and she realizes that she makes mistakes, but it seems like Lasseen made a huge mistake making het adjunct.

Toc the Younger: kind of the same story. Toc is a Claw: an elite assassin who is supposed to be escorting Paran, and later escorting Lorn. I suppose he is young (no pun intended), some of the soldiers in the Malazan Empire are, but when he meets Paran, a captain who he never met before, he tells this man everything about what's going on in Genabackis, including some spicy rumours about a difficult relationship between high fist Dujek and high mage Tayschrenn. Spreading information like that can get you killed in an empire like the Malazan, and Toc appears to be a rookie when he talks like this, not the Claw he is supposed to be.

Just some criticism I had to share. I still think that for a first book in a series, GotM is mind-blowing, and SE's world-building is the best I have seen, yet.

[Aptorian]

Avatar, on 15 June 2011 - 07:14 PM, said:

but if she would have been killed or injured, the whole mission would have been lost.

A cast of the knuckles. Some times you have to gamble and bet it all to win the game. A single woman and a T'lan Imass moving across Genebackis is more easily concealed than a company of soldiers.

Avatar, on 15 June 2011 - 07:14 PM, said:

For a start, I wouldn't think it wise to send the second-in-command alone with a T'lan Imass on this mission: the goals of the T'lan are for a great deal unclear, and a single bodyguard is apparently not enough (Tool doesn't intervene on some crucial points in the story.)

The T'lan Imass involvement had two reasons. A) They were compelled. (That one is tenuous since the bond was weakening) B ) The T'lan Imass wanted Raest awakened and unleashed so that they could end his threat. They knew that if the empire were going to be unleashing him, better they be there to kill him when he went nuclear. Better than it happening a hundred or a thousand years later with out anyone being there to kill him (or die trying).

The reason why they only send one is that Tool is unbound and clanless. Which meant that if he was enslaved Raest could not reach through him and take over more T'lan Imass. Also Tool is a fucking badass.

Avatar, on 15 June 2011 - 07:14 PM, said:

And Lorn seems like an amateur to me, and her mission awfully planned.

The story tells she is young, and she realizes that she makes mistakes, but it seems like Lasseen made a huge mistake making het adjunct.

Again it was a gamble. You also have to remember that the Adjunct is the Empress fist. She is meant to be used this way. The Adjunct does not normally have to command armies. The adjunct oversees and the Adjunct excercises the Empress will away from the capital.

Avatar, on 15 June 2011 - 07:14 PM, said:

Toc the Younger: kind of the same story. Toc is a Claw: an elite assassin who is supposed to be escorting Paran, and later escorting Lorn.

Actually, Toc was not an elite assassin. He was a scout connected to the Claw. Basically a paid agent that feeds the Claw military information and probably acts as a liason between the army and the empire. He was not a highly trained killer or anything like that.

Avatar, on 15 June 2011 - 07:14 PM, said:

I suppose he is young (no pun intended), some of the soldiers in the Malazan Empire are, but when he meets Paran, a captain who he never met before, he tells this man everything about what's going on in Genabackis, including some spicy rumours about a difficult relationship between high fist Dujek and high mage Tayschrenn. Spreading information like that can get you killed in an empire like the Malazan, and Toc appears to be a rookie when he talks like this, not the Claw he is supposed to be.

Well, first of all, Paran is now connected to the Office of the Adjunct. Making him privy to pretty much ALL the information. He has top security clearance.

Second of all, I don't remember the specifics of what he is saying, but information gets around, I doubt Toc gave Paran any information that wasn't already known among the soldiers. Soldiers are notorious gossips and rumour mongers.

This post has been edited by Pennyapt: 15 June 2011 - 07:35 PM

[D'rek]

Avatar, on 15 June 2011 - 07:14 PM, said:

Being on a holiday trip, I have plenty of time to do my first re-read of GotM. (I am also halfway through TCG by now.)

Must say I love all of the foreshadowing, to read so much about characters and races that will have a big roles in the latter books. It also seems that GotM is a more tightly written book, in some ways I like it better than some of the latter books.

Some things that I am more critical about: first is Lorn and the story around her. I like the idea of a adjunct, second in command to the empress who has a old grudge against the mage (Tattersail) who killed her family when she was young. But from the second mightiest person in the whole empire (and a former Claw) I expect a bit more discipline when she meets that mage. But Lorn draws her sword and is ready to kill the mage at once.
Later, when she travels with Tool to the Barrow where the Jaghut tyrant is bound, she sees Crocus, Murillio, Coll and Kruppe. On her own (Tool is not in sight at that moment), she attacks the 4 men. She comes away with it, drives them back to Darujhistan, but if she would have been killed or injured, the whole mission would have been lost. For a start, I wouldn't think it wise to send the second-in-command alone with a T'lan Imass on this mission: the goals of the T'lan are for a great deal unclear, and a single bodyguard is apparently not enough (Tool doesn't intervene on some crucial points in the story.) And Lorn seems like an amateur to me, and her mission awfully planned. The story tells she is young, and she realizes that she makes mistakes, but it seems like Lasseen made a huge mistake making het adjunct.

Toc the Younger: kind of the same story. Toc is a Claw: an elite assassin who is supposed to be escorting Paran, and later escorting Lorn. I suppose he is young (no pun intended), some of the soldiers in the Malazan Empire are, but when he meets Paran, a captain who he never met before, he tells this man everything about what's going on in Genabackis, including some spicy rumours about a difficult relationship between high fist Dujek and high mage Tayschrenn. Spreading information like that can get you killed in an empire like the Malazan, and Toc appears to be a rookie when he talks like this, not the Claw he is supposed to be.

Just some criticism I had to share. I still think that for a first book in a series, GotM is mind-blowing, and SE's world-building is the best I have seen, yet.

re: Lorn - the Adjunct isn't 2nd in command of the Empire. The Adjunct reports directly to the Empress and has the authority to carry out her will, but is more of a personal investigator for the Empress without any real bearing on the chain of command. If Laseen died, Lorn would not necessarily have any increased authority, let alone become the next Empress. Because she's been acting as the Empress' will ever since she became Adjunct, and she started her Claw training very young (11 or so?), she has been suppressing her emotions since she was a child. IMO, running into Tattersail made Lorn no longer able to suppress her emotions (temporarily) and hence her sudden outburst. She's been holding that grief and rage in for a decade, it was only a matter of time until something sufficiently personal set her off.

re: Toc - he is a Claw, yes, but not necessary a master assassin. He may just be a spy in their employ (though even then he probably still has some level of special training from them). As for divulging information, well there is {a} he's become a willing and spiritual member of the Host, so he is very dedicated to Dujek and is truly a soldier, {b} he knows Paran is the assistant to Lorn, not just some captain, so he probably thinks (or has been ordered) to divulge all relavant information to the Adjunct's assistant, {c} maybe he's just not very good at his job. All the other Claw in the Host are dead, so they can't chastise him for his poor work...

[Avatar]

Thanks for both your answers. It makes some things more clear now. Guess I overrated Toc's status as a Claw, and I guess adjunct is not the same as a general. I think I was a bit confused because of .... (how do I spoiler something by the way?)... in the latter books. Still, I think it is quite a gamble to send such a small team, and how conceiling is a T'lan Imass? Unless you want to ditch your lame adjunct by sending her almost alone. The bridgeburners were with a bigger team and could keep it secret, right?

This post has been edited by Avatar: 18 June 2011 - 08:41 PM

[worry]

You should probably spoiler tag any mention of later books.

HoC SPOILER

Spoiler

Also, Tavore's military command is a complete rarity for the Adjunct role. I think they mention this in HoC.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 20 June 2011 - 04:19 AM
Reason for edit: modgod edit for spoiler clarity

[Kanese S's]

I'm pretty sure I recall that, Worrywort.

Also

Spoiler

It's mentioned again, this time, IIRC perhaps directly by Laseen, in The Bonehunters

But yeah, it's my understanding that Fists and High Fists are pretty equivalent to various ranks of General, while the position of Adjunct is sort of outside and above the regular chain of command.

As for sending just Tool as her bodyguard, and how concealing that is... actually very concealing, as Tool can travel as dust and only appear when needed. He's also pretty damn badass. In fact, I'd feel very safe with him guarding my back.