[Abracadaver]

So a friend of mine (who recommended the Malazan series to me) told me that MOI was the greatest book in the series. Maybe its because I hate hype, but after finishing MoI the other night for the first time, I have to say that I disagree.

Personally, I thought DHG was a better volume, but i was surprised to see how many people agree with my friend in his opinions of MoI.

MoI is was great no doubt, but all in all it didn't have the impact that DHG had on me. And yes I'm referring to the deaths of Coltaine and Duiker. I don't know if I've every been so upset over the death of a character as I had been when Coltaine was slaughtered.

However, MoI was much easier for me to read, in that I didn't feel like there were any moments that were less exciting than others (with the exception of maybe the mhybe in which i would power read through to get around). On the flipside, I struggled partway through DHG and ended up taking a week or so break because I was sick of listening to Felesin whine. Luckily her tune changed towards the end of the book.

I guess my point is before I ramble longer, I feel DHG is a greater volume due to the emotion it was able to impart on me as a reader. MoI was a smoother book, that kept my attention from start to finish, but I felt didn't scratch the surface in terms of the emotional rollercoaster that was imparted to me from DHG.

Any opinions out there, on well, my opinions?

[zenMichael]

Abracadaver, on 29 March 2011 - 09:48 AM, said:

Any opinions out there, on well, my opinions?

oddly enough, i felt almost exactly the same as you after i'd finished MoI (though i hadn't found the forum yet and no one else i knew had read it, so it wasn't like i was expecting it to be THE BEST BOOK EVAR or whatever), for nearly exactly the same reasons. but on a re-read, i definitely liked MoI better, so eh. who knows. (Possibly b/c Toc is 1 of my 2 favorite characters, and knowing where his story goes just makes it all the more heartbreaking to see what he's going through for the whole thing? Also maybe because my other favorite character is Gruntle, so this book is a two-fer. Also possibly b/c I just skipped the Myhbe stuff--I know, I know, I'm a bad person.)

But then again, my favorite book is book 8 (it's the furthest i've read so far), and a lot of people seemed to really dislike it, or at least not even appreciate it till a re-read, which totally baffles me, so i think it just goes to show that the books hit in different ways for different people.

[Aptorian]

I think the reason that MoI will always be at the top of the lists is because it actually one of the more traditional and straight forward of Eriksons books.

You have a big bad sorceror in a far off land. His evil army is spreading over the borders and they are eating people. He seems to be linked to a poison that is killing the world. He has great big scary undead dinosaurs with swords for arms. All in all he is a great tradiotional bad guy and in the end it turns out that he is also a tragic creature.

You have great powers of good making an alliance and moving on this bad guy. The heroic grey knights. The ambitious Malazans. The barbaric Barghast. The emo Andii, And leading them are great, powerful characters, WJ and Dujek, Anomander Rake, Brood, Kallor. Not to mention the team of the Seguleh, Tool, Envy and poor, poor Toc.

And then you have these ancient stories intertwined. The undead neanderthals. The Jaghut. The KCCM.

And you have great and tragic scenes. The last stands of the Grey Knights. The clash between Rake and Brood over Silverfox. The revelation of the new Master of the Deck. Kallors Betrayal. Itkovians Embrace.

This book is much more simple then the rest of the books. Erikson doesn't pull as many of his strange twists. It promises a great fantasy battle and it delivers.

To me the series peaked with MoI and the later books never really surpassed it.

[Abyss]

Ahh, the Holy Duology of DG and MoI...

I vaccilate on which of these is my favourite book in the series (and/or 'ever')... DG is strikingly different from more or less everything else out there. While it has some standard quest-type storylines in Fiddler & co looking for Tremolor, Kalam working his way to the Empress, and even Pearl and Lostara.... on the other hand we have Felisin's grim, verging on distrubing story... and, of course, the thoroughly original, grueling and emotionally viscious Chain of Dogs. And while Fiddler and co's run to Tremolor (with a few little bits like Iccy and Mappo, Hounds vs Shapeshifters, Apsalar's father, Moby, Gothos, etc) is good fun, Kalam's run at Laseen is action-movie level jaw dropping, and the end of the Chain, well... all of which is to say, DG is a brilliant novel with some great fantasy elements. I have read a LOT, and I have never read anything like the Chain of Dogs.

On the other hand, we have MoI, which is a great novel, with some BRILLIANT fantasy elements... mostly listed upthread, but briefly, the interplay of the Malazans, Grey Helms, Barghast, Andii, Imass, K'chain, Pannions, the interpersonal bits between WJ, Rake, Korlat, Kallor, Picker, Itkovian, Paran, Gruntle (the third hand retelling of Gruntle rallying the Capans with a child's half-eaten body is, bar none, one of the best bits of writing i have ever read...). And MoI has a hell of a big finish. While undead lizards massacre an army and a giant tiger, shapeshifting dragons fight demon condors, and commando bridgeburners and ninja seguleh fight more badguys... gods wake up, other gods are about to be woken up, socerors unleash all kinds of crazy mojo, undead legions are paralysed, characters die... and then a frikkin flying castle busts out of a frozen waterfall and rams the bad-guy castle.... i defy any fantasy fan to re-read that sentence and not get shivers.

So.. which is better?

For me, it comes down to DG having the better STORY, but MoI being overall the better BOOK.

This week, anyways. I could change my mind.

[Abracadaver]

Abyss, on 29 March 2011 - 02:12 PM, said:

On the other hand, we have MoI, which is a great novel, with some BRILLIANT fantasy elements... mostly listed upthread, but briefly, the interplay of the Malazans, Grey Helms, Barghast, Andii, Imass, K'chain, Pannions, the interpersonal bits between WJ, Rake, Korlat, Kallor, Picker, Itkovian, Paran, Gruntle (the third hand retelling of Gruntle rallying the Capans with a child's half-eaten body is, bar none, one of the best bits of writing i have ever read...). And MoI has a hell of a big finish. While undead lizards massacre an army and a giant tiger, shapeshifting dragons fight demon condors, and commando bridgeburners and ninja seguleh fight more badguys... gods wake up, other gods are about to be woken up, socerors unleash all kinds of crazy mojo, undead legions are paralysed, characters die... and then a frikkin flying castle busts out of a frozen waterfall and rams the bad-guy castle.... i defy any fantasy fan to re-read that sentence and not get shivers.

So.. which is better?

For me, it comes down to DG having the better STORY, but MoI being overall the better BOOK.

Wow that was epic.

Regardless though, I agree with you 100% and could not have said it better.

[Zalasta]

I know I'm in the minority but I just didn't like DG at all. I found the Chain of Dogs to be completely preposterous (it's one thing for an experienced army to survive a trek like that while being pursued, but it is too much of a stretch for civilians, I just don't buy it) and a complete drag. It was filled with unlikeable characters (I tried very hard to root for Felisin but she was just too hateful). Even Coltaine felt very hollow. As I recall almost everything about the man was told in Duiker's perspective, as a result I never felt a connection with him. His death, while heart wrenching, just lacked the impact that Itkovian's had.

MoI, however, featured a great cast, both old and new (except for the Mhybe, oh how I despised her constant self-pity). With intricate plots that tied together the past, the present and the future. It was constantly filled with incredible moments and revelations. One heck of a ride that left me screaming for more.

I guess my money is on MoI.

[King Bear]

MOI. But DG is great too. So is GOM, HOC, MT, BH, RG, TTH and DOD. TCG probably is too but I wouldn't know I HAVEN'T GOT MY COPY YET.

@Abyss: I have the same issue of vaccilation with MOI and MT. Unlike a lot of people I loved MT from the start.

MODGOD EDIT TO REMOVE MT SPOILERS ALBEIT ENTIRELY MINOR SIDEWAYS ONES. SORRY BOMBUR - I KNOW IT WASN'T INTENTIONAL OR OBVIOUS - BUT THIS IS THE MOI FORUM, AFTER ALL.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 30 March 2011 - 03:52 PM

[LordofTheFallen]

Pennyapt, on 29 March 2011 - 11:21 AM, said:

To me the series peaked with MoI and the later books never really surpassed it.

I agree completely. Though I will say that Karsa's part was really good in HoC, it seems that the earlier books are by far better than the later ones.
GoTM showed a simple yet effective plot with likable characters and smooth twists (Kruppe) without overdueing it like Erikson does in the later books.

DG was amazing because the Wickans had to create strategy after strategy to survive with the refugees. And, it was all legit too, no miracles to turn these battles in their favour (except for the Khundryl). As well as a straight forward plot with Heboric and Co (escape the rebellion).

And, as mentioned by Pennyapt, MoI brings every character and race together, and brings powerhouses and old favourites (except the mhybe) to one side where fight an obviously evil empire . And the Capustan fight was epic.

[CircleBinder]

Both are incredible books. If I had to choose, I would say MoI is the better book of the series and here is why:

The big difference for me is that MoI is when I really started to feel the interconnectedness of all the players and elements in the Malazan World. While DG is itself a great story, it kind of feels like a second 'first book' for the series if that makes any sense. Rather than build on the foundation of the first book, it lays a whole new area of foundation. MoI is when we finally see advancement of familiar characters and plots, and we finally get a sense of how the overall arc of the series is going to progress.

I should mention that this is my first read through, and I am only halfway through HoC. But from the perspective of looking at the series as a whole thus far, I would say MoI is the better entry. I am loving HoC right now also though for the same reason that I just described above.

[Knowing]

I found DHG a mind blowing read. Before Erikson I had been reading simple stuff with generic stories where the good guy always won in the end. Basically it broke through to a new genra for me and I loved that so much I cried at the end of it. However, as I began reading MoI for some reason I retained that expectation for a fairy tale ending. So, as I read MoI, it simply tore my heart apart. I didn't think that an author could reproduce the same effects in another book. As a result when the story developed I was completely entrenched, as a matter of fact I think I blew through MoI in about four days. Reading about that siege I realized this was everything I had been looking for in fantasy fiction. That entire concept of Gruntle filling an entire house of corpses shattered everything I knew about fantasy fiction. Despite reading what the Chain of Dogs went through I was amazed at how savage the Pannion Seer's empire was. By the time the ending took place I was literally slack jawed with the outcome of the Bridgeburners.

The Deadhouse Gates made me realize that this tale was worth reading on seven different levels. Memories of Ice made me realize that these were the works that I had been looking for my entire life.