[worry]

Then we are at an impasse.

[Andorion]

I may have missed something but what happened to Grub? At one point he was leading the Letherii army, then when Bent was looking to follow Stormy and Gesler he saw Grub trying to scale the Spire and followed ( right?) And then I have no idea what happened to him. Also what happened to Draconus and the Errant? I was so looking forward to watching Draconus smear him across the landscape.

[Ukjent]

If I don't remember wrong, then Skinner hijacked the house of chains.

[D'rek]

Andorion, on 28 June 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

I may have missed something but what happened to Grub? At one point he was leading the Letherii army, then when Bent was looking to follow Stormy and Gesler he saw Grub trying to scale the Spire and followed ( right?) And then I have no idea what happened to him. Also what happened to Draconus and the Errant? I was so looking forward to watching Draconus smear him across the landscape.

Can you quote that? I don't recall Bent seeing Grub at all, then. He did end up seeing Hood's "alternate route" to the top of the Spire and taking that...

[Malbolge]

I've just finished my 2nd read through of the MBotF and the NotME, finishing tCG last night, so I was thinking along the lines of this thread, with what happened (or will happen) to certain characters.
The passage Andorion refers to is, I believe...

The flames drove him back. And this was a source of fury and anguish. He tried again and again, but his beloved master was beyond his reach. Howling, he raced back and forth along the berm, the foul stench of his own burnt hair acrid in his nostrils.

And then he saw the pup - the one of tangled hair and piercing voice, the pup that never grew up - running towards the cold, towards the frozen sea.

Had the pup found a way around this burning air?

The Wickan cattledog with the scarred face tore off in pursuit.

There would be a way round - He would find his master again. To fight at his side. There was, for Bent, no other reason to exist.

p776 Bantam Hardback.

My impression was it was Roach that Bent saw, and followed, not Grub (there's never a mention of Grub not growing up or having a piercing voice... tangled hair though). Grub was one of the characters that stood out with having no mention after the Battle of the Blessed Gift. I assume he'll show up again, either in ICE's novels, or the Toblakai trilogy. We know he's set to have a place in the Empire, in the future... and we know that at least 2 of the Malazans on Letherii make it back to the Empire (Fiddler to fiddle in Smiley's, and Hedge to show him where it is). Maybe he'll end up as civilisation's/Empire's champion against Karsa... maybe he (and a redeemed Blistig) will return to remove Mallick... maybe he'll hook up with Ganoes and The Host to deal with Assail (when Ganoes goes there to hook up with Silverfox), and then go back to deal with Mallick (Emperor Ganoes/Empress Tavore anyone?)... Maybe he'll stay commanding the Letherii army (from the back of a Ve'Gath) for a while, and then go back and deal with Mallick (from the back of a Ve'Gath) .

Speaking of Blistig there... I can see a role for him as well, being the only one (or one of only a handful) to know the truth of the 7C rebellion, and Tavore's speech to him towards the end of tCG. I can also see him doing some changing after the events of tCG... he did what Tavore asked of him, and maybe, just maybe, he'll start to realise what it was all about. And then he'll go back and deal with Mallick... Emperor Blistig? Or is that too wild? Maybe he and Pores will become the new Hood and Dassem.

This post has been edited by Malbolge: 22 August 2012 - 07:58 PM

[richie.colt]

grub becomes emperor in the future its writtn in one of the books. one of the poems or short sayings has the name emperor grub

[Abyss]

richie.colt, on 07 March 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

grub becomes emperor in the future its writtn in one of the books. one of the poems or short sayings has the name emperor grub

It's actually 'First Sword of the Late Empire'. Not emperor.

[Synap6]

I've fallen in love with the Malazan world, but after reading TCG, I'm still searching for the satisfaction of closure. I've a vast array of unanswered questions and skimming through this forum I've stumbled upon certain spoilers in regards to ICE's books which I haven't yet read. They're ordered but I'm still left wondering as to whether or not answers will be found.

Reading TCG, at about halfway through, you've got the Bonehunters crossing the glass desert. Two thirds into the book, they're still crossing the desert and I started panicking: "Hood's balls, is everything going to be addressed in merely 200-300 pages??? Impossible!" Indeed, I was right!

A lot of those topics have been pointed out in this thread (mules, Spite-Envy, Errant, Draconus, etc etc.)

What about:
-The Azath?
-The Tanno Spiritwalkers?
-Burn?
-Dunsparrow-Leoman-Queen of Dreams?
-Calladan Brood and his hammer?
-The Mhybe role Olar Ethil mentioned when she spoke to Faint-Sweetest-theothergirl?
-The other passage where.. Badalle? someone else?.. mentioned something about a child opening its terrifying eyes and suggesting that such a child would be a powerhouse.
-The whole point of the Dying God?
-The whole point behind Gruntle's story? Pages worth of intrigue and adventure only to have him killed off for no reason.
-Cotillion and Amannans saying they were not yet done with the Gods? (then why not make it a 12-13 book series instead of ending it at 10?)
-The Deragoth
-The Tiste Edur?
-Edgewalker!!!
-Cartheron Crust or whatever his name is (Urko? the one using dragon bones for his tower). Why this whole passage?
-umm Mallik Rel Korbolo Dom Laseen?
-D'rek? wtf? what about the other Gods?
-Eres'al indeed! Why her involvement?
-Bottle!! Cmon, that was an awesome character and he suddenly turned completely secondary after having been called the Shaved Knuckle in the Hole.
-Rudd Elalle? why make him so important and then leave him out?
-Seren Pedac who gave birth to the Knight of Shadow's son but who suddenly seems completely useless other than that.
-Shurq Elalle? Does she get it on with Felash?
-Ublala and his super-armor-mace? Probably to come with Icarium searching for.. Icarias?
-Hood... the Gate of Death, the war of the dead? Where, why, what the hell?
-Both dogs seem blessed or something. What of it? Reminded me of the power-mules.
-Soo.. how's Felisin doing among the infected orgy-pussing-leprous-followers?
-more and much more. I just can't think or don't have time to list them all.

When I first started the Malazan books, it seemed that every detail was again taken up later in the stories & earlier books. But as it went along, I felt things were put in only to fill gaps.. Seems like pages and pages of not much (a la Gruntle or Mappo, etc.). I don't know what to think. I know I enjoyed every bit but I hate loose ends. I'm going to read ICE's books (skipping Night of Knives), hoping some answers will be found (Humble Measure i guess in Throne Sceptre Orb, which tackles Dahrujistan) but... somehow I don't think so.

This post has been edited by Synap6: 20 March 2013 - 04:49 PM

[worry]

Sorry dude, all of those were answered definitively and for all time. No loose ends there.

[Synap6]

is there a proper wiki-like site where i can find further info? I've looked at some of them and they're very succinct. Not many details. I could stroll through this forum for ever, but it seems like such a huge task, going through post after post from each book to find proper answers.

I guess ICE's novels reveal some of these answers or at least shapes information so that we may have a better inkling of the whole scheme of things?

This post has been edited by Synap6: 20 March 2013 - 09:26 PM

[Khellendros]

Synap6, on 20 March 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

is there a proper wiki-like site where i can find further info? I've looked at some of them and they're very succinct. Not many details. I could stroll through this forum for ever, but it seems like such a huge task, going through post after post from each book to find proper answers.

I guess ICE's novels reveal some of these answers or at least shapes information so that we may have a better inkling of the whole scheme of things?

ICE's novels do answer, or at least shed further light on, quite a few of your questions. And you should read Night of Knives too for that reason. Erikson's latest, Forge of Darkness, also tackles a couple of your questions. Then there are the other questions, which have not been answered in any book - but you will find plenty of speculation, some of it maybe even half-convincing, on this here site You just got to use that handy advanced search button.


And trust me, delving into post after post on these forums becomes highly enjoyable (addictive even?) and not a chore!



Edit: The wiki itself is still quite the work in progress, in my opinion. You'll find the facts there, as it were, but for the deep discussion, this is the place to be!

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 20 March 2013 - 11:02 PM

[Ruthan Good]

Khellendros, on 20 March 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

Synap6, on 20 March 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

is there a proper wiki-like site where i can find further info? I've looked at some of them and they're very succinct. Not many details. I could stroll through this forum for ever, but it seems like such a huge task, going through post after post from each book to find proper answers.

I guess ICE's novels reveal some of these answers or at least shapes information so that we may have a better inkling of the whole scheme of things?

ICE's novels do answer, or at least shed further light on, quite a few of your questions. And you should read Night of Knives too for that reason. Erikson's latest, Forge of Darkness, also tackles a couple of your questions. Then there are the other questions, which have not been answered in any book - but you will find plenty of speculation, some of it maybe even half-convincing, on this here site You just got to use that handy advanced search button.


And trust me, delving into post after post on these forums becomes highly enjoyable (addictive even?) and not a chore!



Edit: The wiki itself is still quite the work in progress, in my opinion. You'll find the facts there, as it were, but for the deep discussion, this is the place to be!

Deep. Oh so deep. Mariana trench deep.

[Atrate61]

Shadow_Dancer, on 21 March 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:

I finished the book, sat quietly for a minute pretty shellshocked and then nearly screamed in frustration when I realised all the things I still didn't know.

OMG, Shadow_Dancer that made me laugh. Because it is EXACTLY how I reacted when I finished this book!!!

<still wiping tears>

Thanks for that

A61

[Kanese S's]

Synap6, on 20 March 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

I've fallen in love with the Malazan world, but after reading TCG, I'm still searching for the satisfaction of closure. I've a vast array of unanswered questions and skimming through this forum I've stumbled upon certain spoilers in regards to ICE's books which I haven't yet read. They're ordered but I'm still left wondering as to whether or not answers will be found.

Reading TCG, at about halfway through, you've got the Bonehunters crossing the glass desert. Two thirds into the book, they're still crossing the desert and I started panicking: "Hood's balls, is everything going to be addressed in merely 200-300 pages??? Impossible!" Indeed, I was right!

A lot of those topics have been pointed out in this thread (mules, Spite-Envy, Errant, Draconus, etc etc.)

What about:

-The Azath?
What about them? Their story begins far before that of the Malazan Empire, and presumably will continue long after.
-The Tanno Spiritwalkers?
See above. I'm not sure why you think they're central.
-Burn?
Again, her story begins far before that of the Malazans, and I'm not sure why you thought it would end at the end of the series. Presumably since the Crippled God is no longer a threat to her, having been removed from the world of Malaz, she can go on sleeping in peace.
-Dunsparrow-Leoman-Queen of Dreams?
Esslemont focuses on these characters more than Erikson does.
-Calladan Brood and his hammer?
What do you want to know about it? Turned out that he didn't have to use it to wake Burn up. Instead he used it to shatter Dragnipur in Toll the Hounds. He's still out there, existing, like he was before the story began.
-The Mhybe role Olar Ethil mentioned when she spoke to Faint-Sweetest-theothergirl?
I feel like this was answered a while ago. She sleeps to dream. Like Burn, sort of. I think a warren exists in her dream or something.
-The other passage where.. Badalle? someone else?.. mentioned something about a child opening its terrifying eyes and suggesting that such a child would be a powerhouse.
You'll have to be more specific than merely referencing that Badalle said something cryptic. She said lots of cryptic things.
-The whole point of the Dying God?
Bitterness and stuff. Also showing what happened to a soul that was somewhat unaccounted for. Taken care of in Toll as far as I know.
-The whole point behind Gruntle's story? Pages worth of intrigue and adventure only to have him killed off for no reason.
Besides telling a good story, you mean? Well, his story was intricately involved with that of the main plot at several points, so why not tell it?
-Cotillion and Amannans saying they were not yet done with the Gods? (then why not make it a 12-13 book series instead of ending it at 10?)
What? Did you expect them to just go "Well, got that done. Time to sit on our asses doing absolutely nothing for the next eternity. Yep. Maybe we should play some scrabble"? Why would they stop plotting and scheming just because they'd taken care of the primary problem of the world? The only way to convincingly wrap up their storyline neatly would be to kill them off or have them go back to running a bar. And while the latter would be amusing, it would also be somewhat a copout.
-The Deragoth
Causing havoc somewhere, probably, being yet more extremely dangerous fauna in the Malazan world.
-The Tiste Edur?
Gone fishing. No really, I'm pretty sure that after Reaper's Gale they decided that ruling the Lether Empire kinda sucked and that it would be nicer to go back to their villages.
-Edgewalker!!!
Intentionally mysterious. Again, his story began a long time before that of the Malazan Empire, and since he's part of the Shadow Realm, it will presumably continue for quite some time. Mostly he walks around Shadow, being tough. Did you really expect Erikson to reveal every single mystery in the series? Something being mysterious doesn't make it a loose end. Also, he's in at least one of Esslemont's books.
-Cartheron Crust or whatever his name is (Urko? the one using dragon bones for his tower). Why this whole passage?
You keep asking about characters that Esslemont writes.
-umm Mallik Rel Korbolo Dom Laseen?
Maybe you should read Esslemont's books. Some of your questions are very neatly wrapped up in them. This one is resolved in Return of the Crimson Guard, which takes place directly after The Bonehunters.
-D'rek? wtf? what about the other Gods?
What about her and them, indeed? I'm not sure what you're asking about here. There is a deity named D'rek, often called the Worm of Autumn, associated with decay. She physically manifested as the Snake to sneak into the final convergence, and protected the Malazans when they were busy saving the world. So, yeah. I'm pretty sure she survived, but I'm not certain. Pretty sure, though. Some of the other gods fared well, some didn't, as of the end of the series. Poliel is dead, Olar Ethil is dead, Fener is dead, Treach/Trake is dead, one of the two Wolves of Winter is dead (I think just one, but it's been a while, maybe they're both dead), Sechul Lath is dead, Kilmandaros is dead, Dryjhna is dead, Menandore, Sheltatha Lore, Sukhul Ankhadu (if you consider them deities... the Tiste Edur did), dead, dead, and dead, the Dying God finally died, Hood was killed but then he got better and is now seemingly retired from being a deity, Oponn are off being jackasses somewhere, The Crippled God obviously is back to his home realm, Draconus is back on the deity scene, sort of... he's out of the slammer, but few remember him, K'rul is enjoying somewhat limited resurgence in Darujhistan and Capustan, um.... Nightchill is busy being part of Silverfox and leading the remaining T'lan Imass, Beru and Neruse are staying out of things, the Queen of Dreams is still around, Ardata is doing... things... the Errant is being a shitstain and running from Draconus, Mael is helping the good guys and having fun hanging out with Tehol, Ammanas and Cotillion are plotting and other such things, Soliel is maybe taking her job more seriously after getting scolded by Ganoes Paran, Burn is sleeping again, the Bridgeburners are guarding the realm of the dead, presumably (except for Hedge, who is back to the world of the living, getting drunk with Fiddler, who mostly fishes and goes to Smiley's to play fiddle, Antsy and his squad are in Darujhistan running a bar... more on that in Esslemont's work... Sorry/Apsalar is also fishing, but in Itko Kan, and hopefully having lots of sex with Crokus... Quick Ben and Kalam are off being cool somewhere, maybe they also go to Smiley's and hang out with Fiddler), the god and goddess of alcohol are drinking, the forgotten gods are mostly still forgotten, Apsalara (goddess of thieves that Apsalar is named for) obviously got free of Dragnipur and was present at the battle for the First Shore, Osserc is avoiding responsibility as usual, Mother Dark has decided to reconcile with her children, and that about wraps it up, though I'm sure I've forgotten someone. Maybe you could be more specific?
-Eres'al indeed! Why her involvement?
I dunno, maybe she thought that, you know, the world ending, was kind of a bummer, and so did what she could to prevent it?
-Bottle!! Cmon, that was an awesome character and he suddenly turned completely secondary after having been called the Shaved Knuckle in the Hole.
You remember this differently than I do.
-Rudd Elalle? why make him so important and then leave him out?
He was important, to specific people and areas. His story might not be done yet. Lots of people's aren't.
-Seren Pedac who gave birth to the Knight of Shadow's son but who suddenly seems completely useless other than that.
How useful are you while pregnant and right after giving birth, if you've ever had children? Maybe she's busy being a fucking parent. You try getting pregnant during a terrible war and carrying the fetus to term and then giving birth while it seems the world is about to end, and please report in how useful you are after that.
-Shurq Elalle? Does she get it on with Felash?
I don't know. Hopefully. I'm sure she continues to have lots of fun being a pirate, either way.
-Ublala and his super-armor-mace? Probably to come with Icarium searching for.. Icarias?
Maybe, except that neither of them knows what or where it is.
-Hood... the Gate of Death, the war of the dead? Where, why, what the hell?
Might help to be specific in what you're asking about. As mentioned above, Hood was killed via a blow from Dragnipur, and in turn pulled all the dead in existence in to fight chaos. Since that particular battle was resolved with the sacrifice of Anomander Rake, and the subsequent shattering of Dragnipur, releasing all the surviving prisoners of the sword, Hood included, he's sort of retired from being the God of Death, it seems.
-Both dogs seem blessed or something. What of it? Reminded me of the power-mules.
Maybe. Or maybe they're just really cool dogs.
-Soo.. how's Felisin doing among the infected orgy-pussing-leprous-followers?
Probably doing lots of drugs and having lots of orgies. Do you need a more graphic description?
-more and much more. I just can't think or don't have time to list them all.
If you do think of more, I'm sure people will... comment... on them.

Quote

When I first started the Malazan books, it seemed that every detail was again taken up later in the stories & earlier books. But as it went along, I felt things were put in only to fill gaps.. Seems like pages and pages of not much (a la Gruntle or Mappo, etc.). I don't know what to think. I know I enjoyed every bit but I hate loose ends. I'm going to read ICE's books (skipping Night of Knives), hoping some answers will be found (Humble Measure i guess in Throne Sceptre Orb, which tackles Dahrujistan) but... somehow I don't think so.

I think your expectations were a bit odd. Erikson and Esslemont constructed an enormous world that in many ways feels real. I'm not sure why you seem to have expected literally every problem of the world to be solved by the last book and every mystery to be revealed. That's not how the Malazan world works, or has ever worked.

People live their lives, each having their own stories, some of which intersect, sometimes in a big way. But then, after that intersection of their storylines, they go their own ways and do other things. Just like not every problem in the real world was solved at the end of WWII, not every problem in the Malazan world could possibly be solved with the end of a single conflict, despite that conflict being a massively important one. People have lives after the climax of this particular story. They go on living and doing things and dying. Similarly, the soldiers who went off to war in the 1930's and 1940's in real life, if they survived, came back and did other things. Sometimes their lives stayed connected, sometimes they didn't. Some would go on to do highly visible, momentous things, while others spent the rest of their lives on more humble pursuits.

That's how it works in the world these books take place in, too. Whether or not the Bonehunters will remain an army isn't specified. Maybe they'll come back to the Empire, kick ass, and take names. Maybe they won't. Eventually though, whether they do or they don't, most of them will one day cease to be soldiers, and go live regular lives. Maybe Hellian and Urb will stick together and move somewhere that doesn't have bigass spiders, and raise a family or something. Maybe they won't. It's fun to speculate on, but if they have lives that aren't fraught with peril, and I think they've kind of earned a bit of a respite from the whole peril thing, it wouldn't be that interesting to read about their lives after, because stories center on conflict, and there wouldn't be all that much. The conflict that takes most of the series and effectively ends with the events of The Crippled God may be the most important moments in many of the characters' lives, as far as their world is concerned, but their lives don't end there (well, except for the ones who died).

The only way to avoid leaving a bunch of characters as what you call "loose ends" would be to kill them all off. And that would be crushing, though it's what I had been expecting. I was pleasantly surprised that some characters survived.

Oh, also, I used bolding because the forum wouldn't let me quote that many things separately.

[Tony-t]

Kallor, yeah what happened

I remember the name drop that was whiskeyjacks sister...nothing..

edgwalker

[Tony-t]

and silverfox......where and why.

[Tony-t]

and something I have wondered since the second book. in the prologue of deadhouse gates theres a pregnant women. And I am so positive that they made it sound as If the crows had taken coltaines soul and coltaine was going to be reborn through this women. Did anyone else get this/what happened to that?

[worry]

A lot of that is Esslemont territory, so I'd urge you to read his books.