[Midnight]

I'm pretty sure it was Korbolo Dom. He's described as sitting in a chair with the talon sigil engraved on the top.

Also, Kamist Reloe was a seven cities native who had always been part of the whirlwind in one capacity or another whereas Korbolo Dom was part of the Malazan command structure, giving him an access to the Talon that Reloe would have lacked.

[Migol]

Well, wouldn't that beg the question of why Cot/ST would care at all about Dom's little rebellion amongst the Sha'ik horde? Not only that, but Dom (and Mallick Rel) did "succeed", even if it wasn't all exactly according to plan.

Also IIRC Cot alluded to the "head" of the talons, and Tavore had the golden talon, with gold usually signifying highest rank in most organizations.

[nethernova]

Migol, on 10 April 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

Well, wouldn't that beg the question of why Cot/ST would care at all about Dom's little rebellion amongst the Sha'ik horde? Not only that, but Dom (and Mallick Rel) did "succeed", even if it wasn't all exactly according to plan.

Also IIRC Cot alluded to the "head" of the talons, and Tavore had the golden talon, with gold usually signifying highest rank in most organizations.

I don't think Tavore's golden talon has anything to do with the "talons". Wasn't their symbol the talon of some huge cat or something? Tavore puts on the talon of an eagle which I thought to be the symbol of the malazan empire. At least I think that it was an eagle's talon grasping something.

[Ceda Cicero]

nethernova, on 13 April 2011 - 02:59 PM, said:

Migol, on 10 April 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

Well, wouldn't that beg the question of why Cot/ST would care at all about Dom's little rebellion amongst the Sha'ik horde? Not only that, but Dom (and Mallick Rel) did "succeed", even if it wasn't all exactly according to plan.

Also IIRC Cot alluded to the "head" of the talons, and Tavore had the golden talon, with gold usually signifying highest rank in most organizations.

I don't think Tavore's golden talon has anything to do with the "talons". Wasn't their symbol the talon of some huge cat or something? Tavore puts on the talon of an eagle which I thought to be the symbol of the malazan empire. At least I think that it was an eagle's talon grasping something.

Baudin's talon was, IIRC, the talon of a large cat, but no where does it indicate that this particular type of talon was "uniform" to Talon agents. The Malazan Empire talon is clutching an orb, and there are other Imperial sigils besides that crop up throughout the series (I'm thinking mainly RotCG here.) Further, when Tavore is chatting with Blistig about how he was protected after the Fall from multiple assassination attempts, she says something to the effect of "many agents were lost to save your life." I for one infer from that that Tavore was the one doing the dispatching of said agents, but that's a bit beside the point. The combination of the knowledge she reveals to Blistig (and the language she uses,) her placement of Baudin with Felisin, her implied-but-never-seen-on-screen "partnership" with ST/Cots and the talon itself really makes it difficult for me to think that the talon she wore in tCG was anything other than indicative of affiliation.

[Lister of Smeg]

All this talk of Tavore and her talon reminds me of that quote in the first chapter that garnered a lot of conversation before the book was released. It was in the section where Mael delivers Heboric's body to K'rul. (Page 12)

Quote

Mael scratched the stubble on his jaw. "Me with mine, you with yours, him with his ..."
K'rul shrugged. "Him with his. Yes. Odd that of all the gods, he alone discovered this mad, and maddening, secret."

I can't imagine they're talking about any god other than Shadowthrone. So ... Mael with Tehol, K'rul with Kruppe ... Shadowthrone with Tavore?

[norvnotdumb]

Neocount Cicero, on 13 April 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

nethernova, on 13 April 2011 - 02:59 PM, said:

Migol, on 10 April 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

Well, wouldn't that beg the question of why Cot/ST would care at all about Dom's little rebellion amongst the Sha'ik horde? Not only that, but Dom (and Mallick Rel) did "succeed", even if it wasn't all exactly according to plan.

Also IIRC Cot alluded to the "head" of the talons, and Tavore had the golden talon, with gold usually signifying highest rank in most organizations.

I don't think Tavore's golden talon has anything to do with the "talons". Wasn't their symbol the talon of some huge cat or something? Tavore puts on the talon of an eagle which I thought to be the symbol of the malazan empire. At least I think that it was an eagle's talon grasping something.

Baudin's talon was, IIRC, the talon of a large cat, but no where does it indicate that this particular type of talon was "uniform" to Talon agents. The Malazan Empire talon is clutching an orb, and there are other Imperial sigils besides that crop up throughout the series (I'm thinking mainly RotCG here.) Further, when Tavore is chatting with Blistig about how he was protected after the Fall from multiple assassination attempts, she says something to the effect of "many agents were lost to save your life." I for one infer from that that Tavore was the one doing the dispatching of said agents, but that's a bit beside the point. The combination of the knowledge she reveals to Blistig (and the language she uses,) her placement of Baudin with Felisin, her implied-but-never-seen-on-screen "partnership" with ST/Cots and the talon itself really makes it difficult for me to think that the talon she wore in tCG was anything other than indicative of affiliation.

She even says that she's a child of the emperor when the talon is revealed.

[nethernova]

Neocount Cicero, on 13 April 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

really makes it difficult for me to think that the talon she wore in tCG was anything other than indicative of affiliation.

Well, of course it was. But when I read it I didn't think of the Talons. I thought she wanted to say "Look, I'm still part of the Malazan Empire. Kellanved all the way!" and not "Look, I'm part of a super secret group of assassins. Dancer all the way!"
What you say makes perfect sense though, especially the part about placing Baudin. So probably it was a talon to represent the Talons and not an orb gripping talon to represent the empire. In the end it doesn't really make that much of a difference. Both would hint at a close connection to Shadowthrone/Cotillion.

[Abyss]

The Talons were always loyal to the Empire. The disconnect happened when Laseen took over and placed her Claw above them.

NoK suggests some/many of the Talon fled to a Shadow Cult and/or infiltrated the Claw and were subsequently purged.

[Ceda Cicero]

nethernova, on 13 April 2011 - 05:45 PM, said:

Neocount Cicero, on 13 April 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

really makes it difficult for me to think that the talon she wore in tCG was anything other than indicative of affiliation.

Well, of course it was. But when I read it I didn't think of the Talons. I thought she wanted to say "Look, I'm still part of the Malazan Empire. Kellanved all the way!" and not "Look, I'm part of a super secret group of assassins. Dancer all the way!"
What you say makes perfect sense though, especially the part about placing Baudin. So probably it was a talon to represent the Talons and not an orb gripping talon to represent the empire. In the end it doesn't really make that much of a difference. Both would hint at a close connection to Shadowthrone/Cotillion.

Right, and therein lies an interesting question that's sort of in the background throughout the series - one that means you're not wrong when you argue that it could indicate a lingering affiliation with the Malazan Empire. Tavore was (both in her capacity as a Talon it would seem, and regardless of it) still very much a member of the Malazan Empire as it was defined ideologically under Kellanved. In the same way that we could look to many of the Old Guard (Dujek, Whiskeyjack, etc), or Talons who were left knocking about after Dancer's ascension (Baudin, the agents Tavore sent to protect Blistig), who stayed on with the Empire in some fashion but were ultimately more loyal to Kellanved and never fans of Laseen and have a conversation about their loyalties and affiliations, we can with Tavore. Part of what makes her such a cool character, IMO. Even though she was too young to have ever been a part of the Old Guard generation, because of her personality and her super-intense study of Malazan war and leadership, for all practical purposes, ideologically, she's Old Guard.

[nethernova]

By the way, could anybody translate what Nep Furrow said in the end?

"Where'en ne faareden? Eh? War bit ana dem?"
"G'han nered pah vreem!"
"Nepel!"

I can figure out the "What about any of them?" or something similar in the first sentence but the rest has me completely lost.

[Sinisdar Toste]

what about the fallen? eh? what about them?

they'll never pay me!

never!

(maybe)

[Punchy Pete]

Back to the first part... all the manifestations that people thought were broken pieces of TCG weren't actually there, other than the heart. The rest were consumed by the Ravens. Remember, the barrow was empty. Everyone just thought all of his pieces were scattered. The physical manifestation was needed to bring all the pieces back together, with all the ravens falling in to it, and then finally the heart. So there aren't any pieces left with residual power, although there seem to be more Jade Giants out there...

As for Cotillion and ST, they were looking to secure their place among the gods. This plan surely did that, but there may have been some power in Cotillion's assassination of TCG that strengthened their hold on Shadow.