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Tel Akai Left out
#1
Posted 27 February 2011 - 09:54 PM
Why are not the Tel Akai counted among the founding races? And while I'm at it, did they have a god and a warren?
Yes, this could have been posted a lot of places, but this is where it went.
Yes, this could have been posted a lot of places, but this is where it went.
#2
Posted 27 February 2011 - 10:34 PM
frank, on 27 February 2011 - 09:54 PM, said:
Why are not the Tel Akai counted among the founding races? And while I'm at it, did they have a god and a warren?
Yes, this could have been posted a lot of places, but this is where it went.
Yes, this could have been posted a lot of places, but this is where it went.
I wish I could remember who it was who thinks of the founding races at one point during the book, probably one of the FA. As far as I can tell there was a time when the world settled, chaos was subdued and civilizations rose. The FA, Jaghut, KCCM and Imass all made civilizations then. From the memories we hear about the TTT were around then, being the children of the Tel Akai, we could theorise that it was only after coming in contact with these other four races civilizations that they began making their own cities and countries. Thus, they were not among the founders, but among the civilizations that sprung up in the wake of them.
We know that Bellurdan had magic. We've seen that both the tribes on Genebackis and Lether have Shouldermen. They do have magic but it seems that the only racial warren they have is the one they are capable of generating themselves... at least the ones who have enough of the genes left from the old ones.
As for Gods. I'm sure they've had plenty. Like the rest they have probably worshipped the Elder Gods and Elder Beings pretending to be their gods. The Seregahl from MT were old gods of the Toblakai on Lether.
This post has been edited by Clockwork Apt: 27 February 2011 - 10:38 PM
#3
Posted 27 February 2011 - 11:05 PM
Apt, you careless clown:
This is from the epigraph to Chapter Six of TCG (p. 141 in my edition).
Combine this with:
That's from p. 638 in my book.
It's not that the Thel Akai didn't pop up early on; it's that we are working from an incomplete record which may or may not have record of their presence and passage. Kallor's purge didn't help either.
Imagine how many cool/badass dinosaurs we don't know about. Or the sea creatures we never found out about because their fossils lie too far underwater to ever be discovered - or they have no fossil record.
Quote
'Dominant among the ancient races we can observe four: the Imass, the Jaghut, the K'Chain Che'Malle and the Forkrul Assail. While others were present in the eldritch times, either their numbers were scant or their legacies have all but vanished from the world. [...]
Fragment purportedly from a translator's note to a lost edition of Gothos's Folly, Genabaris, 835 Burn's Sleep
Fragment purportedly from a translator's note to a lost edition of Gothos's Folly, Genabaris, 835 Burn's Sleep
This is from the epigraph to Chapter Six of TCG (p. 141 in my edition).
Combine this with:
Quote
The secret is this. There are more life forms in the history of this world than we could ever imagine, much less comprehend. They lived and they died and what little remains tells us only that they once existed. And therein hides the secret, the terrible secret. It's all for nothing. Nothing but fragments of bone. All of it... for nothing.
That's from p. 638 in my book.
It's not that the Thel Akai didn't pop up early on; it's that we are working from an incomplete record which may or may not have record of their presence and passage. Kallor's purge didn't help either.
Imagine how many cool/badass dinosaurs we don't know about. Or the sea creatures we never found out about because their fossils lie too far underwater to ever be discovered - or they have no fossil record.
This post has been edited by amphibian: 28 February 2011 - 03:39 AM
I survived the Permian and all I got was this t-shirt.
#4
Posted 28 February 2011 - 06:50 AM
Oh sure, the world of Wu is millions of years old. How ever, we were talking about these founding races. There may have been prior rises of civilization. After all, it is mentioned that it would not be the first time that "Burn started over". How ever this time it was the 4 races we know now that did the founding. And at that point the Tel Akai were not dominant from what we can tell and their smaller Toblakai ancestors were nothing but tribal people.
How Denuth from the RCG prologue fits into all that I don't know.
How Denuth from the RCG prologue fits into all that I don't know.
This post has been edited by Clockwork Apt: 28 February 2011 - 06:51 AM
#5
Posted 28 February 2011 - 09:14 AM
Clockwork Apt, on 28 February 2011 - 06:50 AM, said:
Oh sure, the world of Wu is millions of years old. How ever, we were talking about these founding races. There may have been prior rises of civilization. After all, it is mentioned that it would not be the first time that "Burn started over". How ever this time it was the 4 races we know now that did the founding. And at that point the Tel Akai were not dominant from what we can tell and their smaller Toblakai ancestors were nothing but tribal people.
How Denuth from the RCG prologue fits into all that I don't know.
How Denuth from the RCG prologue fits into all that I don't know.
Didn't Karsa find evidence of a Toblakai city that Iccy helped them to hide?
#6
Posted 28 February 2011 - 09:36 AM
frank, on 28 February 2011 - 09:14 AM, said:
Clockwork Apt, on 28 February 2011 - 06:50 AM, said:
Oh sure, the world of Wu is millions of years old. How ever, we were talking about these founding races. There may have been prior rises of civilization. After all, it is mentioned that it would not be the first time that "Burn started over". How ever this time it was the 4 races we know now that did the founding. And at that point the Tel Akai were not dominant from what we can tell and their smaller Toblakai ancestors were nothing but tribal people.
How Denuth from the RCG prologue fits into all that I don't know.
How Denuth from the RCG prologue fits into all that I don't know.
Didn't Karsa find evidence of a Toblakai city that Iccy helped them to hide?
Yes, but this was not as far back as the founding. By the time they were being lead into the mountains the founding races had self destructed or been diminished by their wars.
The founding races were in their imminence somewhere around 500,000-300,000 years years before Burns sleep. Lots of time for the Toblakai to rise and fall as well.
#7
Posted 28 February 2011 - 08:03 PM
Clockwork Apt, on 28 February 2011 - 06:50 AM, said:
Oh sure, the world of Wu is millions of years old. How ever, we were talking about these founding races. There may have been prior rises of civilization. After all, it is mentioned that it would not be the first time that "Burn started over". How ever this time it was the 4 races we know now that did the founding.
Well, which "founding" are you talking about? In the linguistic sense, the humans view the KCCM, Jaghut, Imass and the FA as the first ones. However, we see that the Eres'al were present before them, that the KCCM came through space (didn't evolve on Wu), the Thel Akai and Azath (possibly the Azath builder as well) were present waaaaay back when things were still young and whatever other species that aren't in the fossil record or truly died out or left Wu entirely.
Founding is tricky here and Erikson/ICE certainly leave a lot of flexibility in the concept.
I survived the Permian and all I got was this t-shirt.
#8
Posted 28 February 2011 - 08:57 PM
I believe it is one of the FAs or maybe one of the 14 Jaghut who recognise the Jaghut, FA, KCCM and Imass as "The Four Founding Races".
While it is evident that both the Thel Akai, Eres'al, Deragoth, Dragons, KCCM predecessors, etc. were around before the 4 species mentioned as founding came into their zenith, I think the important destinction is that these species were A) dominant and
had a period of high culture/Golden age or what ever. To be honest time line wise it doesn't seem like they really align properly. By the time the Imass emerged it sounds like the Jaghut had already fought their Death War and been broken, but what ever.
I think it is the fact that they had cities and empires, while races like the Thel Akai or Eres'al did not. They remained as nomads or tribes, living in harmony with nature and all that.
Of course that title, 4 founding races, smacks of arrogance, but it is a term used again and again in the books.
While it is evident that both the Thel Akai, Eres'al, Deragoth, Dragons, KCCM predecessors, etc. were around before the 4 species mentioned as founding came into their zenith, I think the important destinction is that these species were A) dominant and

I think it is the fact that they had cities and empires, while races like the Thel Akai or Eres'al did not. They remained as nomads or tribes, living in harmony with nature and all that.
Of course that title, 4 founding races, smacks of arrogance, but it is a term used again and again in the books.
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