[Luzburg]

Anyone else spot the last line of that scene.

The sound of a cane tapping on rock.


That wily bastard Shadowthrone is everywhere.

[robertk4]

amphibian, on 01 March 2011 - 04:50 AM, said:

ansible, on 01 March 2011 - 04:04 AM, said:

amphibian, on 01 March 2011 - 03:30 AM, said:

When Kellanved and Dancer fell out of the tower and died upon the rocks below, they became gods.

Just as an aside, I disagree with this completely. I don't think they ascended at all or became gods until they entered Shadowkeep. They became gods of Shadow, so unless they usurped Shadow before returning to face Laseen (which seems highly unlikely) they cannot have become gods upon death. Their actions at the Deadhouse also don't make much sense if they are already gods.

You are right. They didn't ascend until they entered the Deadhouse and somehow got control of Shadow. Damnit, this slightly weakens my theme, but maybe explains why Kellanved/Shadowthrone and Dancer/Cotillon are the most emotive of gods. They still have their bodies.

I don't think they have their bodies. The way I understood it was because it was a Shadow Moon, people who died didn't stay dead. So even though they died off the balcony to Laseen, they still had a window of time to get into the Deadhouse because the Shadow Moon allowed the dead to walk around for the night. Thats why you also see the guy who knows a lot about warrens, can't remember his name right now, also try and get into the deadhouse with the azath eating him instead of ammanas. I see it as a huge gamble because they had to die to throw Laseen off their trail and ensure succession in their empire. However, if they hadn't gotten into the DeadHouse before the Shadow Moon was ended, they would have just died.

[Pig Iron]

"9 - What exactly did ST and Cots get out of this? In the start of the book Edgewalker claims that even if you succeed beyond every expectation they will speak of you failure. That Cots cannot win."

This is the main storyline of the series I think, and it's definitely not clear after TCG. Freeing the world of tCG seems to be good in many ways (when crippled Kaminsod starts a number of really nasty series-of-events despite being a nice guy when whole, plus Burn is poisoned), and it is hinted but never seen that it also weakens some of the gods. But what was the original plan of ST and Cot? That Kil, Setch and the Errant would free the OD and that this could be used in conjunction with Heborics magic touch could hardly have been part of it. And then there's all those scenes where Cot thinks or talks about what he's going to do.

I guess it's up to ICE now.

[ansible]

Pig Iron, on 10 March 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:

"9 - What exactly did ST and Cots get out of this? In the start of the book Edgewalker claims that even if you succeed beyond every expectation they will speak of you failure. That Cots cannot win."

This is the main storyline of the series I think, and it's definitely not clear after TCG. Freeing the world of tCG seems to be good in many ways (when crippled Kaminsod starts a number of really nasty series-of-events despite being a nice guy when whole, plus Burn is poisoned), and it is hinted but never seen that it also weakens some of the gods. But what was the original plan of ST and Cot? That Kil, Setch and the Errant would free the OD and that this could be used in conjunction with Heborics magic touch could hardly have been part of it. And then there's all those scenes where Cot thinks or talks about what he's going to do.

I guess it's up to ICE now.

I agree that this isn't clear, and while that's too bad, I have to guess that Edgy is being more general here. He isn't talking about Cotillion just killing Kaminsod, but I think the overaching goal (of Shadowthrone's) to stay in power. As gods, ST and Cots could theoretically rule forever, but as we've seen, most gods die or are supplanted in a short time span (measuring in millenia here). Even the Elder Gods, who are still around and doing shit, most people have totally forgotten about. I think this is the failure Edgy means - the passing of gods into obscurity is inevitable, so even if Cotillion wins right now, eventually he and ST will fail. If the Liosan had reached Kharkhanas, it's possible they would have usurped Kurald Emurlahn; if the OD hadn't been contained, it would have killed everything (or T'iam would have); if tCG wasn't removed from Wu, he would have destroyed the warrens and many gods would die in a pantheon war (which I think is largely prevented, for all the talk about it in the series). All of those scenarios are bad for ST, and when have we seen ST do anything that isn't in his own best interest? And the plan they came up with to counteract events was dangerous (for Cotillion esp), and I'm sure anything could have gone wrong at any point.