[The Dude]

Shinrei, on 23 February 2011 - 10:48 AM, said:

What I said has nothing to do about posting times, or even speculating that The Dude was lurking. My point is, he voted with 30 minutes left, for someone who wasn't the main candidate to be lynched, and seemed unwilling/unprepared to change his vote to get a lynch.

(Underlined is mine)

I play from work. I had a meeting. I can't prove or disprove this. It's just the way it is.
.

As to the underlined part...This is a blatant lie. or you are just shooting from the hip. Tapper points out that that When I voted I brought Silencer to 5 votes tattersail only had 4. and ment had some votes as well. To me, this has the look of someone subtly trying to push a lynch. After Tapper calls Shin out on his *Cough* lie *Cough* mistake Shin doesn't even acknowledge... he just brushes it under the rug. Here are his next 2 posts.

Shinrei, on 23 February 2011 - 11:11 AM, said:

Donuts in the shape of boobs?

Shinrei, on 23 February 2011 - 11:24 AM, said:

Don't worry Silencer, I'll still play miniature golf with you on weekends.

He pushed with tapper on a misguided lynch of an RI and he then tries to direct votes onto me using fabricated facts. This seems more than a little scummy.

vote Shin

[The Dude]

Also, can you folks please tell my how my "state of the game" post was complimentary and smarmy? I don't feel like I was sucking up or kissing anyone's ass. That was my assessment of the game to that point in one post. I suppose I could have done 12 different little posts.. but then I would have been accused of post padding. No wonder everyone seems to like lurking.

[The Dude]

The killer killed early in the day. That was a tactical mistake imo. Also the kill was Venge. I know WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM... but the quality and tactically placed kill day 1, followed by the odd early kill of Venge day 2 makes me think we have at least1 killer who is a Veteran. The Venge kill smacks of being a "kill between friends" Nothing you can use to base a case on. But it's there none the less

[The Dude]

Another post where shin is subtly pushing my way. I don't like it Shin. Smells scummy to me.

Shinrei, on 23 February 2011 - 01:42 AM, said:

PB is right about compliments getting you a long way in Mafia. I'm sure posts like The Dudes are one reason he's so hard to lynch all the time. He's so reasonable, and nice sounding.

[The Dude]

I made a Mistake. This was Shin's first post after Tapper corrected him. A vote that has basically no substance but starts a train. *in the voice of the Horse from Ren and Stimpy* No Sir. I don't like it!

Shinrei, on 23 February 2011 - 11:08 AM, said:

Fine by me.

Vote Trull's Son

Because I'm a tenacious SOB.

EDIT: format

This post has been edited by The Dude: 23 February 2011 - 06:05 PM

[The Dude]

drinksinbars, on 23 February 2011 - 12:03 PM, said:

Both are low posters, but i think lizra is coming on when everyone else is going to sleep. Neither of them has made much impact on the game so both are good candidates for low posting scum. I can see where shin is coming from regarding the foreshadowing, i called the dude out on something similar yesterday for saying not voting for silencer meant you were scum.

vote trulls son

Lets see how they react to a bit of pressure.

I didn't say that not voting Silencer made you scum. You are twisting my words. I said, at that point in time, it was a widely mentioned possibility that Silencer was a symp. I said that in my opinion a killer would likely not be on the train (at that point in time) for fear of hitting a possible symp. Thats it. I didn't say that everyone voting tattersail was a killer. I was pointing out that it would seem rather foolish for a killer to be on a possible symps train so early in the day So early in the train.. I still stand by that reasoning. If Silencer was the likely lynch and a killer would have been the last 3-4 votes.. sure he would jump on. But imo not that early in the day/train.

[The Dude]

Lets take it a step further. Who is early on Tattersail's train.

Oh my... it's Shin. With a dibs too. maybe thats why you didn't like that logic so much.

Hugin & Munin, on 22 February 2011 - 05:43 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 4 hours and 7 minutes remaining
17 Players still alive: Ace Hunter, ansible, dibs, Grief, HiddenOne, Lizra, Mentalist, MTS, PB, Roldom, Shinrei, Silencer, Tapper, Tattersail, The Dude, Trull's son, Vengeance

9 votes to lynch, 9 votes to go to night.

5 Votes for Silencer ( MTS, Mentalist, Tattersail, Lizra, PB )
4 Votes for Mentalist ( The Dude, Silencer, ansible, Ace Hunter )
4 Votes for Tattersail ( Roldom, Shinrei, dibs, Tapper )

Players not voted: Grief, HiddenOne, Trull's son, Vengeance

[HiddenOne]

The Dude, on 23 February 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

The killer killed early in the day. That was a tactical mistake imo. Also the kill was Venge. I know WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM... but the quality and tactically placed kill day 1, followed by the odd early kill of Venge day 2 makes me think we have at least1 killer who is a Veteran. The Venge kill smacks of being a "kill between friends" Nothing you can use to base a case on. But it's there none the less

So now we're looking for 2 killers?

[Mentalist]

Trull, on 23 February 2011 - 05:09 PM, said:

MTS, on 23 February 2011 - 04:54 PM, said:

Trull, on 23 February 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

I should really say that there is no purposeful subtext that pushes for my innocence in my defense of Tatt. Sure we could read it as such, but understand that this was not my intention. I was hoping that adding my situation would emphasize the reason for why I refused to vote Tattersail at the time. Based on the common reaction of some of the newer players in the last couple games, I didn't think this was something to go batshit over. The sad part of this is that even when Tattersail turned out up innocent, those defending him still get the heat.

The reason you're getting some heat is not because you defended Tattersail - hell, I used the exact same reasoning mostly - but because in doing so you played the noob card for both of you, which is in itself an expression of innocence. And when people express innocence, people take note.

Quote

I'm convinced the case against me is just derailing us from the important suspects.

You're doing it again. ;)As for the whole 'derailing' aspect of it, I think you're being overly dramatic. Cases are useful to gauge people's reactions, their accuracy doesn't make them any less useful in that regard. Tattersail's case ultimately turned out to be wrong, but we gained info from it (this, for instance). That's half the reason some people voted for him. Does that make Tapper scum for pushing it? Not in itself, no, just that he was wrong. Mafia is never a game of certainty, so we can't fault him for that unless we can see hints of a more sinister motive. And it's not like we're focusing on this to the detriment of all else anyway. Grief has his case on Ace Hunter, which I'm looking into at the moment. Who are these 'important suspects' that we seem to be missing by the way? If you have any suspicions on the killers, by all means air them, in fact that will make it more likely that you aren't lynched, providing they're concrete suspicions, of course. It does you little good to throw vague suspicions of scumminess around, as Ace Hunter will see when he gets back. Playing the victim as you have done rather undermines your defense too, but anyway.

Oh i think I understand now. So I'm a suspect for playing the noob card. I imagine there is a reason this is suspicious, maybe something happened in a older game where someone did this and turned out scum? I could see how that would suck, I'll make sure to avoid doing so in later games.
I had thought the case against Ace was more substantial (more important), but as I've mentioned it isn't as concrete as I would like.
I'll admit that all the talk about meta, and meta-cases, is really confusing me.

Yes. Gem scarred some of us for life with that. and than there was that game with Lisheo and Mocker, the two noobs being the killers.....

[Mentalist]

Grief, on 23 February 2011 - 05:28 PM, said:

I've got to go make some dinner, and then go out. Back in a couple of hours.

who are you and what have you done with the pepsi-guzzling, old-computer-cursing, always-doing-homework Grief?

[Mentalist]

HiddenOne, on 23 February 2011 - 06:20 PM, said:

The Dude, on 23 February 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

The killer killed early in the day. That was a tactical mistake imo. Also the kill was Venge. I know WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM... but the quality and tactically placed kill day 1, followed by the odd early kill of Venge day 2 makes me think we have at least1 killer who is a Veteran. The Venge kill smacks of being a "kill between friends" Nothing you can use to base a case on. But it's there none the less

So now we're looking for 2 killers?

with 17 people playing, the scum team was alwyas going to be composed of at least 2-3 players.

however, they are probably partnered (can talk off-thread via PM) and share a kill that they must both agree on each day.

[Mentalist]

We have a flurry of activity, and it looks like the Dude is making a case for Shin and DiBs being the two scum. interesting, and certainly merits looking into.

first, though, i need a nap.

[The Dude]

Not necessarily Shin and Dibs in cahoots. But they are up there on my list.

I really have nothing on Dibs. He is just early on that train. He is playing rather clean though nothing at all to get excited about...which is worrying in and of itself.

This post has been edited by The Dude: 23 February 2011 - 06:56 PM

[The Dude]

HiddenOne, on 23 February 2011 - 06:20 PM, said:

The Dude, on 23 February 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

The killer killed early in the day. That was a tactical mistake imo. Also the kill was Venge. I know WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM... but the quality and tactically placed kill day 1, followed by the odd early kill of Venge day 2 makes me think we have at least1 killer who is a Veteran. The Venge kill smacks of being a "kill between friends" Nothing you can use to base a case on. But it's there none the less

So now we're looking for 2 killers?

with 17 people there are almost certainly 2 killers with 1-2 symps.

[drinksinbars]

The Dude, on 22 February 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

Another thing I don't like about Silencer. He left the thread with a joke vote on. Now, maybe he knew he will be back before lynch, but I believe he usually is gone around the time day times out. I might be wrong on this though, just seems odd to leave a joke vote on so late in the day. I think this, combined with his carefree spamathon is enough to gain my vote for day 1.

vote Silencer

another thing to look at right now... who isn't on the silencer train. regardless of if he is a symp or not, the accusation has been thrown around by multiple people. I would be surprised if 1-2 of the scum AREN't on the train right at this moment when the voting could swing between silencer and tattersail. The scum more than likely don't know their symps. I doubt they would be on the train early on to eliminate one of their potential symps.

I dont think i am twisting your words, you do say you dont think scum would be on the silencer train as theres a possiblity he is a symp. to me thats a form of scaremongering designed to make people feel like they are suspected of being scum for not being on the train while at the same time saying only innos would be voting silencer as scum wouldnt risk it. Its making yourself look inno while anyone not following your lead look guilty.

As for me following shin on the tatersail train, i voted after he swapped to silencer claiming it was either or for that day and that was my case. roldom and shins votes were both joke votes.

As for your case on shin - can you quote the post where tapper challenges him?

[Peanutbutta]

Catching up.

[Tapper]

Vote The Dude.


Based on gut, certainly not enough to make a case, but there is way too much I don't like about the way you play right now. Here's the list of what I dislike and sets my scumdar off.

First there was the rather convenient leaving out of Roldom on your thoughts post. Guess who is killed? Roldom. OK, you might be framed, but hey, so what.

Second, you try to lend some weight to Venges kill. No problems in itself there, but hey.

Third, you go after people early on the Tatts train of yesterday. Now, thanks to the massive amount of discussion on whether or not it deserved to be a lynch, that was the only truly meaningful train. But you don't try and distill much from it, do you? Just looking at who was the earliest non-joke vote and tying it to your own gut (see point 1).

If we look where your vote was... well, it was on the Silencer may be a symp train. Which, as we all agree, even if he was a symp, would have given us a CF of inno and nothing more to work with.

I agree to a certain extent with dibs on the fearmongering you've done.
There is just too much stuff in your posts that makes you look like you want to smell of roses, and by the two targets you went for, it seems you might well try to steer everyone into happy town by lynching one of the culprits for yesterdays lynch of an inno without being too picky about who gets lynched, either.

Sure, dibs is a threat whenever he plays, and sure, Shin fucked up on an accusation against you. But the two combined... I'm starting to feel there is more to it than simply wanting to call attention to two people.

[Tapper]

Quote

First there was the rather convenient leaving out of Roldom on your thoughts post. Guess who is killed? Roldom. OK, you might be framed, but hey, so what.

Now that sounds harsh. What I should add is: analysing kills is wifom anyway so we should apply that here, too, and consider it coincidence.

Still, too many coincidences ought to make a radar ping.

[Peanutbutta]

Silencer, on 23 February 2011 - 10:57 AM, said:

PB: Until I hear back from him on the WIFOM issue, IGMEOY in a major way. You're the most analytical, reasonable player we have, and you're brining up hypothetical kill scenarios on day two to point the finger at people. Suspicious as hell, imo.

Buddy, sometimes, I just talk to talk. You throw enough stuff at a wall, eventually something sticks.

[Peanutbutta]

The Dude, on 23 February 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

The killer killed early in the day. That was a tactical mistake imo. Also the kill was Venge. I know WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM... but the quality and tactically placed kill day 1, followed by the odd early kill of Venge day 2 makes me think we have at least1 killer who is a Veteran. The Venge kill smacks of being a "kill between friends" Nothing you can use to base a case on. But it's there none the less

I kind of like you for scum, Dude. Just based on a general feeling as I read up. Shin's a close second because it sounds like he's giving a lot of explanations for his actions... like he has to have a good reason for it.

Not sure either option is worth my vote yet, will need to look more.

Also, the two kills were both fairly non-controversial people this game. Who here thought Roldom or Vengey were likely lynch targets? Both were keeping their noses clean and that makes them hard to lynch. When scum kill unlynchable players, it typically means the scum is one of the more talked-about people because they are trying to stay surrounded by such individuals.