[Tapper]

MTS, on 22 February 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

Regarding Tattersail, ever since he started he's always been a fairly jumpy player, so I'm less inclined to think he's scum based on that than most, and really, that's the elementary basis for this case.

That said, his whole 'I'm happy to be lynched rather than a power role townie but before I do...' line rubbed me the wrong way, mainly because at this point his lynch is not certain, and indulging in such fatalism and playing the victimised inno has been known to work in the past.

Knowing when to keep your feet on the ground is an aspect of the game many new players need to work on - I know I hit the moon in my first few games. Since this game is altless, we know it is him.
But your argument would not fly in alted, and right now, it opens up a huge can of wifom: what if he jumps because we expected it of him, after all?

This post has been edited by Tapper: 22 February 2011 - 04:15 PM

[MTS]

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 04:13 PM, said:

MTS, on 22 February 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

Regarding Tattersail, ever since he started he's always been a fairly jumpy player, so I'm less inclined to think he's scum based on that than most, and really, that's the elementary basis for this case.

That said, his whole 'I'm happy to be lynched rather than a power role townie but before I do...' line rubbed me the wrong way, mainly because at this point his lynch is not certain, and indulging in such fatalism and playing the victimised inno has been known to work in the past.

Knowing when to keep your feet on the ground is an aspect of the game many new players need to work on - I know I hit the moon in my first few games. Since this game is altless, we know it is him.
But your argument would not fly in alted, and right now, it opens up a huge can of wifom: what if he jumps because we expected it of him, after all?

I'm very much aware the observation is based on the player himself, and that the motivation behind said overreaction might not necessarily be innocent. By the way, overreacting to everything as a game strategy with a meta-defence has to be the stupidest play I've ever heard.

I could see myself voting for him, but it should be interesting to see if anyone else tries to defend him or deflect votes away with another case, as that's been in short supply so far.

[Grief]

MTS, on 22 February 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 04:13 PM, said:

MTS, on 22 February 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

Regarding Tattersail, ever since he started he's always been a fairly jumpy player, so I'm less inclined to think he's scum based on that than most, and really, that's the elementary basis for this case.

That said, his whole 'I'm happy to be lynched rather than a power role townie but before I do...' line rubbed me the wrong way, mainly because at this point his lynch is not certain, and indulging in such fatalism and playing the victimised inno has been known to work in the past.

Knowing when to keep your feet on the ground is an aspect of the game many new players need to work on - I know I hit the moon in my first few games. Since this game is altless, we know it is him.
But your argument would not fly in alted, and right now, it opens up a huge can of wifom: what if he jumps because we expected it of him, after all?

I'm very much aware the observation is based on the player himself, and that the motivation behind said overreaction might not necessarily be innocent. By the way, overreacting to everything as a game strategy with a meta-defence has to be the stupidest play I've ever heard.

I think I remember DK being lynched before on the meta basis that he hadn't burst onto the thread and attacked someone for no reason

[MTS]

Grief, on 22 February 2011 - 04:34 PM, said:

MTS, on 22 February 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 04:13 PM, said:

MTS, on 22 February 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

Regarding Tattersail, ever since he started he's always been a fairly jumpy player, so I'm less inclined to think he's scum based on that than most, and really, that's the elementary basis for this case.

That said, his whole 'I'm happy to be lynched rather than a power role townie but before I do...' line rubbed me the wrong way, mainly because at this point his lynch is not certain, and indulging in such fatalism and playing the victimised inno has been known to work in the past.

Knowing when to keep your feet on the ground is an aspect of the game many new players need to work on - I know I hit the moon in my first few games. Since this game is altless, we know it is him.
But your argument would not fly in alted, and right now, it opens up a huge can of wifom: what if he jumps because we expected it of him, after all?

I'm very much aware the observation is based on the player himself, and that the motivation behind said overreaction might not necessarily be innocent. By the way, overreacting to everything as a game strategy with a meta-defence has to be the stupidest play I've ever heard.

I think I remember DK being lynched before on the meta basis that he hadn't burst onto the thread and attacked someone for no reason

Well, you probably got some good rants out of it, so maybe worth it?

[ansible]

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 04:09 PM, said:

Quote

i'm sure if I was scum I would have killed someone already, actually should I say that? It could give them an excuse to kill someone, but if i'm about to be lynched I could easily put in a kill first couldn't I? As there is no night a kill could happen anytime surely?

From the OP:

Quote

Ironman rules - actions are committed as soon as they are received by the mods. To prevent meta-identification of roles, you can submit requests to use your actions at a specific later time, up to 24 hours in advance. Once submitted, this cannot be undone.

So your argument is not entirely valid as you can put in actions on a timer.

The rules being as they are, that makes many regular actions (guards, vigs and heals primarily, which rely on being submitted asap and then processed by the mod asap) really, really tricky. Basically, a day's start during your own downtime could prove fatal.

I know I used those roles in Ironman format in Spycraft 1 and 2, so I know for a fact it can be done, but I would not discount the possibility that they're not being used this game.

I think Tattersail's point was that if he was a killer and he was about to get lynched, he could choose to use his action immediately to get a kill off before getting lynched. This is an interesting point but leads to just as much speculation as before (since anyone could be responsible for the kill).

Also, with the day close to being over, shouldn't we expect a kill soon? If the day ends early due to a lynch, don't roled players with unused abilities lose them for the day? So as a killer you are taking a chance that you will be able to get your kill in for the day - unless you've scheduled it in advance (which you can't change), and even then if the day ends before the scheduled kill time, you lose the kill.

Sounds like as town a quick lynch might be useful to try and limit the number of NKs (well, day kills, I guess). But of course speed lynching is rarely beneficial to town, so...

Dilemma.

[Trull's son]

Sigh, no TCG yet.

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 04:13 PM, said:

MTS, on 22 February 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

Regarding Tattersail, ever since he started he's always been a fairly jumpy player, so I'm less inclined to think he's scum based on that than most, and really, that's the elementary basis for this case.That said, his whole 'I'm happy to be lynched rather than a power role townie but before I do...' line rubbed me the wrong way, mainly because at this point his lynch is not certain, and indulging in such fatalism and playing the victimised inno has been known to work in the past.

Knowing when to keep your feet on the ground is an aspect of the game many new players need to work on - I know I hit the moon in my first few games. Since this game is altless, we know it is him. But your argument would not fly in alted, and right now, it opens up a huge can of wifom: what if he jumps because we expected it of him, after all?

The only problem I have with voting Tattersail for over-reacting is that I too have over-reacted by misinterpreting a joke. I caught the levity after I made the post, but it still happened. It's not that I'm scum, it's just that in all the jokes and nostalgic posts it is hard to distinguish who's being serious and who isn't. Tattersail did the same thing, and has been getting heat for it. Tattersail and myself are both relatively new, and I could definitely see the over-reaction being just that.

From a noob point of view, it becomes clear relatively quickly that whoever makes a tiny mistake will be the one ousted. There's little to go on, and so everyone jumps on the little questionable actions. This kept me on edge throughout the first few games I was in. Nothing worse than getting heat the first day for something so minor, and lynched thereby removing any opportunity for you to help catch the scum later in the game (when there is real evidence to work with).

Sure you can read this as a defense of Tatt, but that isn't the point. The point is that a vote for Tattersail seems a waste, as I suspect the case against him/her is based on a mistake, not scummery.

Well I'm gonna remove my joke vote seeing as things are getting serious.

remove vote

Edit: period added

This post has been edited by Trull's son: 22 February 2011 - 04:52 PM

[Peanutbutta]

Holy shit you guys are actually playing this one seriously. Been a long time since I had to read up like 10+ pages.

Couldn't make it back last night but I've got a little time so I'll get acquainted with the thread.

[Peanutbutta]

Shinrei, on 22 February 2011 - 01:30 AM, said:

Wow, even I feel lost in this reminiscing. And the pages are piling up too. I went to eat breakfast and found 2 pages added since my first post...

Good ol' fashioned day 1 spam fest. I barely remember when that was the norm.

How do you think I feel right now? lol... wow this is a lot. Enjoyable to see so much discussion for a change, even if it's just spam.

[Peanutbutta]

Silencer, on 22 February 2011 - 02:26 AM, said:

Don't tell him that!

Wait, what am I saying. PB will probably read it all anyway, and come up with something useful.

No, nothing really stood out this far into the read other than you playing the "typical" symp role pointing fingers everywhere... but you should know I never lynch for Day 1 cases like that. They never pan out.

[Tapper]

ansible, on 22 February 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 04:09 PM, said:

Quote

i'm sure if I was scum I would have killed someone already, actually should I say that? It could give them an excuse to kill someone, but if i'm about to be lynched I could easily put in a kill first couldn't I? As there is no night a kill could happen anytime surely?

From the OP:

Quote

Ironman rules - actions are committed as soon as they are received by the mods. To prevent meta-identification of roles, you can submit requests to use your actions at a specific later time, up to 24 hours in advance. Once submitted, this cannot be undone.

So your argument is not entirely valid as you can put in actions on a timer.

The rules being as they are, that makes many regular actions (guards, vigs and heals primarily, which rely on being submitted asap and then processed by the mod asap) really, really tricky. Basically, a day's start during your own downtime could prove fatal.

I know I used those roles in Ironman format in Spycraft 1 and 2, so I know for a fact it can be done, but I would not discount the possibility that they're not being used this game.

I think Tattersail's point was that if he was a killer and he was about to get lynched, he could choose to use his action immediately to get a kill off before getting lynched. This is an interesting point but leads to just as much speculation as before (since anyone could be responsible for the kill).

Not if he had submitted it already on a timer.

Besides that, in Ironman, with instant resolution, submitting at the earliest opportunity available is key, as that way, you have a chance to beat both guards and healers.

[Peanutbutta]

Tattersail, on 22 February 2011 - 09:17 AM, said:

Silencer trying to make himself look important by becoming the highest poster, 74 posts, Jesus. Although PB was mentioned and then he said hello and then he went again. Both vote worthy imo

Yes, that timing looked pretty bad when I read it. I didn't know I had just been mentioned. FWIW, it would be very unlike me to lurk and then "panic" when I saw my name get mentioned. And I never log into my account anonymous, anyway.

[Peanutbutta]

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 11:05 AM, said:

drinksinbars, on 22 February 2011 - 10:58 AM, said:

Shinrei, on 22 February 2011 - 10:54 AM, said:

Gah, that reminds me of when Bent day vigged me for a bad pun, and I was on his team and knew who he was.

And now he's gone from the forum.

Let's have a moment of silence....with middle fingers extended.....for a legend-
-ary git.

where has bent gone?

He's gone religiouser.

He did a Bwoodie in the religion forum, saying he was currently doing a lot of church work, and felt he didn't have the time for the forum - as well as saying he was a bit tired of having to defend his beliefs continuously here on the forum.
Massive pity, that

Bent told me I was going to hell on at least one occasion. Good times.

[Mentalist]

Vengeance, on 22 February 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 03:43 PM, said:

Besides, lynching PB would have been a complete shot in the dark, playing the odds, lynching Silencer might nail a symp, which means he CFs inno anyway and leaving us with no clue to his master. Ment... well, I still don't understand why we'd want to lynch him.

Mental should be lynched on his scummyness alone, same thing for silencer. If PB is town then the scum will kill him off. If he isn't then we might have to lynch him for not being killed off.

sigh. lookit, venge. the killers can daykill this game. yet the Dude is still alive. and so am I. This narrow the suspect pool down by at least 3 people.
And I would also like to know what I did this game to warrant such suspicion from Tattersail. I'm pretty sure that I called him out when he called me your symp, and asked why he isn't voting you. he never bothered to respond to that.

[Tattersail_]

Mentalist, on 22 February 2011 - 05:28 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 22 February 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 03:43 PM, said:

Besides, lynching PB would have been a complete shot in the dark, playing the odds, lynching Silencer might nail a symp, which means he CFs inno anyway and leaving us with no clue to his master. Ment... well, I still don't understand why we'd want to lynch him.

Mental should be lynched on his scummyness alone, same thing for silencer. If PB is town then the scum will kill him off. If he isn't then we might have to lynch him for not being killed off.

sigh. lookit, venge. the killers can daykill this game. yet the Dude is still alive. and so am I. This narrow the suspect pool down by at least 3 people.
And I would also like to know what I did this game to warrant such suspicion from Tattersail. I'm pretty sure that I called him out when he called me your symp, and asked why he isn't voting you. he never bothered to respond to that.

that wasn't me, that was someone else that's why

[Mentalist]

Tattersail, on 22 February 2011 - 05:30 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 22 February 2011 - 05:28 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 22 February 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 03:43 PM, said:

Besides, lynching PB would have been a complete shot in the dark, playing the odds, lynching Silencer might nail a symp, which means he CFs inno anyway and leaving us with no clue to his master. Ment... well, I still don't understand why we'd want to lynch him.

Mental should be lynched on his scummyness alone, same thing for silencer. If PB is town then the scum will kill him off. If he isn't then we might have to lynch him for not being killed off.

sigh. lookit, venge. the killers can daykill this game. yet the Dude is still alive. and so am I. This narrow the suspect pool down by at least 3 people.
And I would also like to know what I did this game to warrant such suspicion from Tattersail. I'm pretty sure that I called him out when he called me your symp, and asked why he isn't voting you. he never bothered to respond to that.

that wasn't me, that was someone else that's why

quite possibly. i'll have to check.
Since you ARE still around, please explain who you think I was symping.

[Tattersail_]

Woah woah I wasn't, I never even placed a vote on you, you have three votes, ace hunter one of them that I remember they where all accusing you of symping venge, not me, I just pointed out that you had votes on you that's all. I'm on my way home back in around 2 hours

tatts all for now

[ansible]

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 05:17 PM, said:

ansible, on 22 February 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 04:09 PM, said:

Quote

i'm sure if I was scum I would have killed someone already, actually should I say that? It could give them an excuse to kill someone, but if i'm about to be lynched I could easily put in a kill first couldn't I? As there is no night a kill could happen anytime surely?

From the OP:

Quote

Ironman rules - actions are committed as soon as they are received by the mods. To prevent meta-identification of roles, you can submit requests to use your actions at a specific later time, up to 24 hours in advance. Once submitted, this cannot be undone.

So your argument is not entirely valid as you can put in actions on a timer.

The rules being as they are, that makes many regular actions (guards, vigs and heals primarily, which rely on being submitted asap and then processed by the mod asap) really, really tricky. Basically, a day's start during your own downtime could prove fatal.

I know I used those roles in Ironman format in Spycraft 1 and 2, so I know for a fact it can be done, but I would not discount the possibility that they're not being used this game.

I think Tattersail's point was that if he was a killer and he was about to get lynched, he could choose to use his action immediately to get a kill off before getting lynched. This is an interesting point but leads to just as much speculation as before (since anyone could be responsible for the kill).

Not if he had submitted it already on a timer.

Besides that, in Ironman, with instant resolution, submitting at the earliest opportunity available is key, as that way, you have a chance to beat both guards and healers.

Well, yeah, I went over all the timing mechanics in that same post...

My point is that the scheduled action time is more important than when the action is submitted (if there is a delay on the action). If you submit your kill action at the beginning of the day, scheduling the kill for 8 hours before the day ends, and then a lynch ends the day halfway through, your kill is wasted permanently. On Day 1, though, it might make sense to hold back with the kill since a lynch is unlikely early in the day....hence Tattersail's argument.

[Peanutbutta]

Mentalist, on 22 February 2011 - 05:28 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 22 February 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 03:43 PM, said:

Besides, lynching PB would have been a complete shot in the dark, playing the odds, lynching Silencer might nail a symp, which means he CFs inno anyway and leaving us with no clue to his master. Ment... well, I still don't understand why we'd want to lynch him.

Mental should be lynched on his scummyness alone, same thing for silencer. If PB is town then the scum will kill him off. If he isn't then we might have to lynch him for not being killed off.

sigh. lookit, venge. the killers can daykill this game. yet the Dude is still alive. and so am I. This narrow the suspect pool down by at least 3 people.
And I would also like to know what I did this game to warrant such suspicion from Tattersail. I'm pretty sure that I called him out when he called me your symp, and asked why he isn't voting you. he never bothered to respond to that.

Why are people still assuming things based upon meta reasoning? It's against D'rek's rules, for one, and it's poor play, for two. I've seen several people lose games recently due to meta play.

[Mentalist]

Tattersail is correct, it was ainsible that said I was symping Venge. and here he is, just as I was about to comment we haven't seen him in a while.

[Mentalist]

Peanutbutta, on 22 February 2011 - 05:36 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 22 February 2011 - 05:28 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 22 February 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Tapper, on 22 February 2011 - 03:43 PM, said:

Besides, lynching PB would have been a complete shot in the dark, playing the odds, lynching Silencer might nail a symp, which means he CFs inno anyway and leaving us with no clue to his master. Ment... well, I still don't understand why we'd want to lynch him.

Mental should be lynched on his scummyness alone, same thing for silencer. If PB is town then the scum will kill him off. If he isn't then we might have to lynch him for not being killed off.

sigh. lookit, venge. the killers can daykill this game. yet the Dude is still alive. and so am I. This narrow the suspect pool down by at least 3 people.
And I would also like to know what I did this game to warrant such suspicion from Tattersail. I'm pretty sure that I called him out when he called me your symp, and asked why he isn't voting you. he never bothered to respond to that.

Why are people still assuming things based upon meta reasoning? It's against D'rek's rules, for one, and it's poor play, for two. I've seen several people lose games recently due to meta play.

lol, actually, D'rek specifically mentioned what kind of meta-play is against the rules this game. since it's altless, grudges were not included,
and those things transcend all logic. just ask Morgoth when DiBs is playing and Morgoth is scum....