[worry]

Time didn't warp to make her younger, so she's still elder. I'm not even sure what else you could possibly mean.

[MWKarsa]

One of my first posts on this site was about Hetan's fate(sadly I put it in the wrong thread) but, in all honestly, it was one of the toughest, emotional and heart tearing passages I have ever read in a fiction book. It felt like I was reading a horrible true life story that you can't help but read even while it makes you sick of how some humans behave. After reading those parts I found myself thinking about it over and over again and many times I would wish I never read it as I couldn't believe how powerfully it affected me. I was shocked how it affected me.

Even in it's brutality it was one of the most powerful passages I have read as normally being a stoic iron-hearted Texan it usually takes an act of congress for me to become emotional but these scenes did. It was a complete gut punch that honestly took multiple times to think through and digest it enough to where I could understand it better and move past it. In recent years outside of some of the historical readings I've done and one other fantasy series none affected me like this one did.

[worry]

Well you know what they say: "When it comes to hobbling, Texans are a bunch of softies."

[MWKarsa]

worrywort, on 16 February 2011 - 01:38 AM, said:

Well you know what they say: "When it comes to hobbling, Texans are a bunch of softies."

OK- I have to admit this actually made me laugh so hard I spit a little Bud Light out on my laptop. Very nice.

[D'ivers Leopard Sith]

I was horrified by the Hetan scenes, especially since she was such a strong character in MoI. What I did like about these scenes is what I like in general about SE's writing in general. He makes us look at what people are really like no matter whether they live in our world or live in the fantasy-land of Wu. Having access to shapeshifting powers or leading a people who live life according to a code of honour their ancestors set for them doesn't change the fact that eventually it almost always goes pear-shaped.

[Tattersail_]

I think the storyline of the Barghast is gripping, I liked the read and we have not really had this insight into how they live, we have had Trotts and other Barghast heroes within the Malazan Marine's but npt a good look at their clans unless you look at Trotts fighting in MOI and the tournaments but this wasn't an insight into how they think and would live. I like the fact that there was dissention, clans breaking off from clans, doing what they think right, I like that some joined the Bolkando, some wanted war with the Akrynnai and some wanted to plunder the land around them. I liked their story line, and second time reading when I knew what was coming I found it easier to read and look at all the backstabbing and false friends and the infighting when a greater enemy is upon them. Great writing

[Excellence]

Hobble Sansa Stark. I'll pay gold and pay well. Over 1200 pages of absolute no character development. Hobble her, damn it! There are worse things than a brute savages all book long and that is snivelling whining squirrels who are still snivelling whining squirrels 1200 pages later!

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

D, on 16 February 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

I was horrified by the Hetan scenes, especially since she was such a strong character in MoI. What I did like about these scenes is what I like in general about SE's writing in general. He makes us look at what people are really like no matter whether they live in our world or live in the fantasy-land of Wu. Having access to shapeshifting powers or leading a people who live life according to a code of honour their ancestors set for them doesn't change the fact that eventually it almost always goes pear-shaped.

Sorry to res an old thread, but I've been working my way though the Tor re-read sections this morning of DoD and I think this is absolutely spot on. The power of those scenes is that you are in poor Hetan's head - there is no looking away because you don't like it. You're going to sit there and deal with the fact that this is potentially what one person could do to another.

For anyone who is interested or perhaps hasn't seen them yet, link to Amanda and Bill's thoughts.

I always thought it's a sign of incredible writing that it wrests such a strong feeling from the reader - and those scenes are probably some of the most powerfully horrible I've come across in any book.

[Andorion]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 21 March 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

D, on 16 February 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

I was horrified by the Hetan scenes, especially since she was such a strong character in MoI. What I did like about these scenes is what I like in general about SE's writing in general. He makes us look at what people are really like no matter whether they live in our world or live in the fantasy-land of Wu. Having access to shapeshifting powers or leading a people who live life according to a code of honour their ancestors set for them doesn't change the fact that eventually it almost always goes pear-shaped.

Sorry to res an old thread, but I've been working my way though the Tor re-read sections this morning of DoD and I think this is absolutely spot on. The power of those scenes is that you are in poor Hetan's head - there is no looking away because you don't like it. You're going to sit there and deal with the fact that this is potentially what one person could do to another.

For anyone who is interested or perhaps hasn't seen them yet, link to Amanda and Bill's thoughts.

I always thought it's a sign of incredible writing that it wrests such a strong feeling from the reader - and those scenes are probably some of the most powerfully horrible I've come across in any book.

I had a different problem with this. Its not the violence or the horror or the rape. Its Hetan's character arc. All the time I was thinking what happened to the badass girl I saw in MoI. That Hetan would have taken 2-3 people with her. She would have made them bleed. How did she become this passive fatalistic character? I never really got it.

[Maark Abbott]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 21 March 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

D, on 16 February 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

I was horrified by the Hetan scenes, especially since she was such a strong character in MoI. What I did like about these scenes is what I like in general about SE's writing in general. He makes us look at what people are really like no matter whether they live in our world or live in the fantasy-land of Wu. Having access to shapeshifting powers or leading a people who live life according to a code of honour their ancestors set for them doesn't change the fact that eventually it almost always goes pear-shaped.

Sorry to res an old thread, but I've been working my way though the Tor re-read sections this morning of DoD and I think this is absolutely spot on. The power of those scenes is that you are in poor Hetan's head - there is no looking away because you don't like it. You're going to sit there and deal with the fact that this is potentially what one person could do to another.

For anyone who is interested or perhaps hasn't seen them yet, link to Amanda and Bill's thoughts.

I always thought it's a sign of incredible writing that it wrests such a strong feeling from the reader - and those scenes are probably some of the most powerfully horrible I've come across in any book.

You shall henceforth be Bauchelady. You naughty necromancer, you.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Maark, on 28 March 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 21 March 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

D, on 16 February 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

I was horrified by the Hetan scenes, especially since she was such a strong character in MoI. What I did like about these scenes is what I like in general about SE's writing in general. He makes us look at what people are really like no matter whether they live in our world or live in the fantasy-land of Wu. Having access to shapeshifting powers or leading a people who live life according to a code of honour their ancestors set for them doesn't change the fact that eventually it almost always goes pear-shaped.

Sorry to res an old thread, but I've been working my way though the Tor re-read sections this morning of DoD and I think this is absolutely spot on. The power of those scenes is that you are in poor Hetan's head - there is no looking away because you don't like it. You're going to sit there and deal with the fact that this is potentially what one person could do to another.

For anyone who is interested or perhaps hasn't seen them yet, link to Amanda and Bill's thoughts.

I always thought it's a sign of incredible writing that it wrests such a strong feeling from the reader - and those scenes are probably some of the most powerfully horrible I've come across in any book.

You shall henceforth be Bauchelady. You naughty necromancer, you.

I giggled, I'm not going to lie!

[Studlock]

Andorion, on 21 March 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 21 March 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

D, on 16 February 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

I was horrified by the Hetan scenes, especially since she was such a strong character in MoI. What I did like about these scenes is what I like in general about SE's writing in general. He makes us look at what people are really like no matter whether they live in our world or live in the fantasy-land of Wu. Having access to shapeshifting powers or leading a people who live life according to a code of honour their ancestors set for them doesn't change the fact that eventually it almost always goes pear-shaped.

Sorry to res an old thread, but I've been working my way though the Tor re-read sections this morning of DoD and I think this is absolutely spot on. The power of those scenes is that you are in poor Hetan's head - there is no looking away because you don't like it. You're going to sit there and deal with the fact that this is potentially what one person could do to another.

For anyone who is interested or perhaps hasn't seen them yet, link to Amanda and Bill's thoughts.

I always thought it's a sign of incredible writing that it wrests such a strong feeling from the reader - and those scenes are probably some of the most powerfully horrible I've come across in any book.

I had a different problem with this. Its not the violence or the horror or the rape. Its Hetan's character arc. All the time I was thinking what happened to the badass girl I saw in MoI. That Hetan would have taken 2-3 people with her. She would have made them bleed. How did she become this passive fatalistic character? I never really got it.

I partial agree. I'm 'BDG' in those posts on the Tor website, I've had a bit longer to think about this story arc. I think, for me and you at least, Hetan story is so unsatisfying we were suspecting some kind of character end to be true to Hetan's character (and I think we see that, she doesn't decide to run after all) but really at that point it wasn't about Hetan's arc, it was the slow entropy of a culture coming to it's end. It focusing of the larger story we have to let go of Hetan because now she is just one of many, and she is fact a victim of the many.

I stand by much of what I said in those posts (and the ones leading up to that) but I have thought alot about this storyline and scene.

[Kashman]

Sorry for res again that thread, but I have to add my thoughts on Hetan's death. All the time i was reading this I had feeling that Tool will come to save her, like I knew he must do it, even if she dies it won't be before she meets Tool, I refused to believe otherwise. So when she died there, alone and frozen... I never supposed that I would be able to truly hate author of fiction. No death of any character - in book or movie - touched me that much and I'm not sure why - yes that was really painful to read, but I didn't like Hetan in particular though she was likeable, but yeah, I don't know.

[worry]

Do your best to extend those feelings of compassion for victims and disgust with injustice (including 'lawful' injustice) to the real world.