[Danforth]

Concerning Garath I believe he was a minion of K'rulls used as a link between his realm and the real world, thats the impression I got from MoI with the Envy and K'rull bit.

[Jorram]

No, see:

[HOC, Onrack&Trull conversation]

quote:

Dessimbelackis, the founder of the human First Empire.
Long vanished by the time of the unleashing of the Beast Ritual. It was believed he had...veered. D’ivers. Beasts numbered seven

[MT, Udinaas thinking, context pointing to the time of the Ritual]

quote:

The Emperor that was One became Seven, scattered and lost in madness

Thats where my confusion comes from.

But you will note that the HOC passage is spoken clearly by a T'lan Imass who surely DOES know what and when happened. While MT passage is based on Letherii legends for the First Empir - not really reliable.

[Arkmam]

quote:

Except that Garath and the 'unnamed mate' seem to suggest there were at least eight hounds at some point, possibly more.

Why do you think Garath is involved?

[Hume]

I generally dont follow any group consensus at all around here myself.

Cocerning dissemibelackis. He made a pact with the deragoth. How he discovered them we dont know. What that pact involved there can be some speculation on for sure but nothing definate can be said. Memory a little foggy, Im not sure if he was the one who started the soletaken/divers ritual, but he may have been. We do know that in the ritual he veered into divers numbered seven. It cant be the deregoth. There has I believe been some speculation that he became the 7 hounds of shadow, I dont follow that one myself. All we know of is that after the ritual he was never heard of again. So he could be dead, but its possible/likely he is alive. I think was even speculation that he may have been related to the assail tyrant at one point. Someone I think may have mentioned Dissembelackis was The Pack in Midnight Tides that Iron bars and Co killed, thats probly the closes thing we know so far that could have been dissembelackis, but it likely wasnt him. It could also be possible he was the soul that Rake's brother warned Crokus not to wake on Drift avali, but the general consensus on who that person is, is Scabandari. Who knows really.

There isnt really much concrete evidence on the whereabouts of him now or even what sort of animal he veered into. which i'd probly say is what most people are eager to know. Whatever animal it is, its likely to be quite powerful, i dont believe it would an eleint divers at all though myself. Probably say Enkaral level of strength. or giant tigers etc

[Abyss]

But in the BH Prologue, doesn't the Trohlbaral muse that Dessimbewacky created the Deragoth, or at least was their master?

That said, it does seem likely he initiated the Ritual to ascend his entire nation. Seems like a likely power-mad-emporer thing to do. If he was using the Deragoth as a power-source or link to one, i could see how it backfired and turned him into the Hounds of Shadow.

Except that Garath and the 'unnamed mate' seem to suggest there were at least eight hounds at some point, possibly more.

But then, in a few millenia, who's to say whether the original Dessimbelactate's d'ivers form didn't splinter beyond being one single entity in seven forms?

- Abyss, is basically saying the Emporer may have f****d himself but good.

[Tiste Simeon]

quote:

Originally posted by Dazer:
I generally dont follow any group consensus at all around here myself.

Cocerning dissemibelackis. He made a pact with the deragoth. How he discovered them we dont know.

I always got the idea that they discovered him... They wanted the pact... Though I could be completely wrong...

Welcome to the forum Biscuit!

[Arkmam]

quote:

Originally posted by Adaephon Ben Delat:

quote:

Originally posted by Arkmam:
When Quick Ben talks meets the hounds in GotM, hew talks about who is mate to who and whatnot. He mentions that one of them is the son of one that is not listed among the seven.

I believe that was the Hound of Shadow named 'Pallick'. The pack's first mate to Rood. Though we are never told as of yet what, if anything, happenned to her. Hopefully we'll find out a lot more about the Hounds in the book, 'Toll the Hounds'.

I hope so, the Hounds are awesome.

[Abyss]

quote:

Originally posted by Arkmam:
Why do you think Garath is involved?

Somewhere in MoI, as Garath is eating a bunch of Pannions.... exchange went something like...

Toc: Gadzooks! Garath's big enough to be a Hound of Shadow!

Lady Envy: Indeed, he could, but he's reluctant. Now come here and give me a backrub.


And somewhere around, someone ventured the theory that Garath is actually the repository for Dessimbepaddywack's soul, the remaining Hounds being his d'ivers bodies.

- Abyss, thinks the expeletive 'Gadzooks' is woefully underused.

[Abyss]

Ahhh, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying, Dazer.

Guess he skipped out the back door and left his nation in the lurch. Great leader, that Dessimbellykiss.

- Abyss, prefers to go down with the ship. In a scuba suit with a sub standing by, mind you.

[Arkmam]

quote:

Originally posted by Darth Morgoth:
I figured Garath was growing to replace one of the lost hounds of shadow. I mean, it would be foolish to think none of the hounds have ever been killed in the past?

When Quick Ben talks meets the hounds in GotM, hew talks about who is mate to who and whatnot. He mentions that one of them is the son of one that is not listed among the seven.

Dissembelackis being the Hounds of Shadow seems strange, since some of them are children of others.

[Abyss]

quote:

Originally posted by Jorram:
I've raised this question before, but - in HoC Onrack or Trull says that the emperor was long gone by the time of the Ritual.

I do not recall this. Quote possible? Anyone? Anyone? Vaiski?

Then again, apparently Kellanved and Dancer were long gone before they returned and were assassinated.

@Arkmam - exactly. Yet difficult to reconcile QB's notes with the Deragoth link.

- Abyss, links the Deragoth to Kevin Bacon.

[Jorram]

quote:

That said, it does seem likely he initiated the Ritual to ascend his entire nation. Seems like a likely power-mad-emporer thing to do.

I've raised this question before, but - in HoC Onrack or Trull says that the emperor was long gone by the time of the Ritual.

[Morgoth]

I figured Garath was growing to replace one of the lost hounds of shadow. I mean, it would be foolish to think none of the hounds have ever been killed in the past?

[Abyss]

quote:

Originally posted by Jorram:
No, see:

[HOC, Onrack&Trull conversation]

quote:

Dessimbelackis, the founder of the human First Empire.
Long vanished by the time of the unleashing of the Beast Ritual. ...

...Thats where my confusion comes from....

Fair point, but 'long vanished' may simply mean they didn't find him, or that he wasn't in a form they could recognize.

- Abyss, splitting d'ivers hairs.

[Hume]

^ Abyss

Im pretty sure Dissembelackis wasnt gone long before the ritual started. I think he initiated it. But by the time the T'lan Imass came to clean the mess up he was long gone. Thats what I remember it as. Not long gone before the ritual, long gone before the T'lann Imass arrived.

[Hume]

^^^

Meh I dont think there is any decent evidence either way. I would assume Dissembelackis would want that alliance, the deregoth not as much. Me wonders what Dissembelackis' powers were to be able to not have the deregoth just go 'screw you its out town now.'

But yeh with the Deregoth wanting it, I would say the emperor probably originaly wanted it sought them out, the Deregoth saw something in it and took it. Thats just what i reckon anyway.