[Silencer]

Whoa. I mean, holy shit. I'm kinda worn down, into little pieces, at the moment, but I think my brain is still working well enough to pop out a few thoughts...

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You all should know the drill by now...and yes, I'm aware I am kinda late to the party, so you'll have to forgive the blatant rip-off thread title and the fact that some of my speculations/questions further down the post are likely ripping off from other threads I haven't read yet.

OK, so, I just listened (yes, the audiobooks...I once read Blood Rites in paperback a couple of years ago, but didn't really get super into it, and didn't feel like going back to the start of the series at that time, I think it's just been long enough now that I was ready to start the series from the beginning, based on the small following the forum has, and the audiobooks were easier to grab on short notice) to all 12 of the books in what is roughly one huge sitting. While on the boat, I basically spent about 5 hours per day listening to Dresden Files. Got through them in pairs, then took those ones off, put the next two on, rinse and repeat (space limitations on my iPod are to blame for this).

So. They were frikkin' amazing, for the most part. My favourites? White Night, Proven Guilty, then probably Changes. The others are all pretty much in the same group of 'great, but not as awesome as those three'. I'm still kinda reeling from the experience, though that might also be landsickness from spending so long on a boat then getting back on dry land. I think it was the books, myself.

Why those three? Proven Guilty was well set-up, and it had that great sense of "Harry is going to get extra credit for something he didn't exactly do" that shines through in places in the other books, specifically the assault on Arctus Tor (guessing on the spelling, here, audiobooks...), and it put a whole new freaking dynamic into the light in the Harry-Molly relationship that it created. Hell, Molly herself became an awesome character from this book onward, imo.

White Night was good because it expanded upon that, and I was sort of worried, what with all the talk of going back to school, that Molly would be dropped from the scene for a book or so with that as an excuse, but she wasn't, and then we got the return of Elaine, and the accompanying expansion of Harry's past, which was awesome. Wasn't a huge fan of the finale in White Night, but it was still great overall.

Then, Changes. Oh my God, Changes. I get the argument that it was kinda messy, kinda unguided, and felt thrown-together. I get that the climax was really, really ridiculous, even for the Dresden Files. It doesn't matter. The Beetle, the apartment, the office. Gone. His lover returning, his daughter that he didn't even know about taken by the Red Court. Getting crippled. Molly almost getting fed upon by Thomas, having to kill Susan who he just caused to turn into a full vampire of the Red Court in order to save his daughter. Accepting Mab's offer. I mean, shit, as someone who gets attached to things he owns, I could feel sympathy for, no, empathy for Dresden when he lost his place, his car, and so forth. It hit me pretty hard, when he felt completely helpless to interfere when Molly and Thomas almost lost it, when he was paralyzed and was forced to turn to Mab for help...I didn't cry or anything, but I could freaking feel for Harry, and that's getting rarer to find in fiction. Damn you, Butcher! Then he gets fucking shot and left on a cliffhanger (which I actually feel is playing to Butcher's strengths - I always felt kinda underwhelmed by his endings, because there were a few important things I thought should be wrapped up or at least commented on before the books ended, but they weren't. A cliffhanger like that means that those unresolved issues/unsaid comments come naturally, so I was happier with them) and after all that effort...whoa, I say again. Ghost Story is going to be crazy, seriously.

Anyway, I haven't been getting heaps of sleep (as I've been listening to the books late into the night, heheh) so this is just a rambling summary of what has been an amazing 12-book marathon so far.

Some thoughts, on the current state of the novels and such:

He didn't call Elaine? Seriously? Hell, after White Night and the setting up of the ParaNet, he even references calling around for information in Turn Coat, "some contacts", but doesn't mention a conversation with his: first love, near-equal, partner in the ParaNet, and second PI? He doesn't even try to contact her when his own child is at risk? Dude, she's one of the most interesting characters because of the backstory she lets seep in, and the chemistry they obviously still have which never gets more than a cursory examination (which is fine, because it makes it more intriguing, but dammit, there'd better be some more discussion on that soon...), and she just gets left out of possibly the biggest book in the series so far, plot-wise? Kinda odd, if you ask me.

Wonder who was using fuego at the final confrontation, given both Ebenezar and Harry were otherwise occupied. Sure, Latin is probably a fairly common tongue to use for spells, but it was explicitly referenced, and gave me pause when I was thinking back over the scene.

Is anyone else really, really suspicious of Ebenezar? He obviously has a vested interest in Harry, and a level head, but...to me, it just seems fishy that he starts up the 'Gray Council' when the 'Black Council' is meant to be infiltrating the White Council, and it seems to me that a smart evil guy doing that sort of thing would be wise to begin to split the White Council further by creating his own reactionary group that he can use to point otherwise 'good guys' at people who are just misguided. It's probably nothing, but it just sticks in my mind whenever the old man is around - doesn't help that he's the Blackstaff, was secretly Harry's grandfather, and never actually explicitly tells Harry to do certain things - he's like a Faerie, leading people to certain conclusions while never actually being specific. He was the one who planted the idea in Harry's head that there was a Black Council, or at least helped him to coalesce the thought. And while he may have good reason and motivation to do so, it's suspicious as hell, imo.

Harry is going to get a lot of fucking rep if word gets around that he took out the entire Red fucking Court. Like, worse than the Arctus Tor rep. Worse than the heirs of Kemler (sp?) rep. That's a major power shift he just created. Maaaaaaaaaaajor. And while he had a shit-ton of help in the end, the Gray Council officially doesn't exist, and it's going to be Dresden's name on the 'front page' so to speak if word gets around at all.

Obviously, with the cliffhanger, things are leading up to some major confluence of events. All the stuff Harry has done or been involved in, for one. The whole motif of him doing things wizard's thrice his age haven't or couldn't in the space of 30 years or less, for another. Him getting shot obviously isn't going to be the end of things, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was either a way to reign him back in, or power him the hell up some more.

Lash hasn't been heard from much since she took the psychic bullet, but something tells me that her influence isn't over and done with - took up too much of the series so far to wither into memory, imo. Though it could do that, I think it's more likely that whatever remnants of her still exist will make a showing soon, perhaps when Harry is dead (assuming he IS dead), perhaps after, but it should crop back up - what with the whole emotional attachment he developed for the Shadow when she was in his head, and then when she sacrificed herself for him.

He Who Walks Behind: got summoned back a couple of books ago? Where in the hell did THAT major event drop off the radar? Sure, he may have been un-summoned when he killed the ex-wife who drew him in, but there was some serious implications about it being He Who Walks Behind and the former relationship to Harry, which was subsequently shelved. Wonder when this will come back up.



Anyway, lots more to think about, but some of it's harder to put into words when you're tired and it's late. Best thing about the series, imnsho, are the character relationships. I mean, the dynamics are kinda freaky, and whacked out, but it makes for a right old mess of intrigue and things left unsaid, and that's what is really keeping me in the series, moreso than the specific plots (which are great in their own right, if a little predictable most of the time, nothing wrong with that, though) and specific moments of awesome (which are also great, though they sometimes feel a bit forced), hence my disappointment at some things left uncommented at the end of each book (or even several books later) and the disappearance of some characters from the stage (though I do suspect that Butcher does that for a reason, and that eventually things will crop up and pan out properly...I'm just too addicted to the Dresdencrack for such 'reasonable' explanations to satisfy me). I'm wondering if the anthology of short stories released last year helps with this a bit? If so, I'm going to hunt it down and read it then eat the damn thing to tide me over to Ghost Story (and I'm literally dreading the wait between Ghost Story and the one after, that's going to actually kill me...though I should have some form of Malazan entertainment around then...probably Stonewielder since I haven't read that yet, and I want tCG first...).

/end rambling thoughts of book-addled, awe-inspired, tiredness-induced, spinning-room-resultant nature.

[Aptorian]

Silencer, on 07 February 2011 - 11:01 AM, said:

Best thing about the series, imnsho, are the character relationships. I mean, the dynamics are kinda freaky, and whacked out, but it makes for a right old mess of intrigue and things left unsaid, and that's what is really keeping me in the series,

The character interaction is by far my favorite aspect of the series as well. I get all emotional when every Butcher and Murphy work together because of their mutual affection for each other. They're good people, as Dresden likes to say.

Silencer, on 07 February 2011 - 11:01 AM, said:

I'm wondering if the anthology of short stories released last year helps with this a bit?

They definitely do. The werewolves, Thomas, Murphy, Gard, Michael, Mac, etc all get some room in those short stories and it helps wrap up some of the questions left after various of the recent events in the series. I especially appreciated hearing about how Michael was doing after the ending on Demonreach.

[amphibian]

The way things went down in the Red Court, I think the Council - not just the Grey Council, but the White Council - will take all the credit for eliminating the Red Court.

We still have the Black Court vampires who hate Dresden though, so there'll not be a huge shortage of bloodsuckin' action.

I'm not suspicious of Ebenezar at all. It's too neat for him to be the Black Council. My money is on Ancient Mai.

Gatekeeper - who is he?

[alt146]

I just started rereading the series (near the end of Fool Moon) and this post suddenly reminded me of just how much cool stuff I had forgotten about

Also, Kindle for Android makes smoke breaks into Dresden breaks.

[Vengeance]

amphibian, on 07 February 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

The way things went down in the Red Court, I think the Council - not just the Grey Council, but the White Council - will take all the credit for eliminating the Red Court.

We still have the Black Court vampires who hate Dresden though, so there'll not be a huge shortage of bloodsuckin' action.

I'm not suspicious of Ebenezar at all. It's too neat for him to be the Black Council. My money is on Ancient Mai.

Gatekeeper - who is he?

I think that Gatekeeper is the original Merlin.... Look at how the current Merlin defers to him and doesn't challenge him at all. He always seem to know exactly what is going on. As if he has seen it before being the original merlin would mean that he probably has. Also in changes Ebenezar implies that no one really knows how the original Merlin was done it. Just that Odin had taught him.

[Silencer]

@Roger - sweet, going to get that now then.

amphibian, on 07 February 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

The way things went down in the Red Court, I think the Council - not just the Grey Council, but the White Council - will take all the credit for eliminating the Red Court.

We still have the Black Court vampires who hate Dresden though, so there'll not be a huge shortage of bloodsuckin' action.

I'm not suspicious of Ebenezar at all. It's too neat for him to be the Black Council. My money is on Ancient Mai.

Gatekeeper - who is he?

The problem, though, if the White Council claims credit, then they're going to have a bit of backlash from the Kristos-led faction of the Council who want peace. It might be a moot point, but I can see them quietly shunting the blame onto Dresden just to put him up as the fall guy. Though that too could backfire on them in making him really politically powerful. So it could go either way. Probably, given the Merlin, the White Council will take the credit, you're right...

Hrm, the Black Court has been rather quiet of late. Then again, I guess Harry put the fear of God into Mavra (sp?) at the end of Dead Beat, pretty badly too given the way she reacted. But I expect them to make a bit of a comeback, too.

It may be too neat for him to Black Council, but a LOT of the bad guys in Dresden are obvious early on. Not necessarily the case here, but the man just strikes me as being...'off'.

And yeah, the Gatekeeper. Hell, what's his interest in Dresden? The man's a mystery, and short of him being the original Merlin, he must be one tough SOB. Keen to find out more.

@alt - haha, glad it did. And I'm not a fan of ereading, though it could become more of my thing if I start reading more again. Though I have the sinking suspicion that audiobooks have made me lazy now. :S

[Vengeance]

Silencer, on 08 February 2011 - 12:03 AM, said:

@Roger - sweet, going to get that now then.

amphibian, on 07 February 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

The way things went down in the Red Court, I think the Council - not just the Grey Council, but the White Council - will take all the credit for eliminating the Red Court.

We still have the Black Court vampires who hate Dresden though, so there'll not be a huge shortage of bloodsuckin' action.

I'm not suspicious of Ebenezar at all. It's too neat for him to be the Black Council. My money is on Ancient Mai.

Gatekeeper - who is he?

It may be too neat for him to Black Council, but a LOT of the bad guys in Dresden are obvious early on. Not necessarily the case here, but the man just strikes me as being...'off'.

Off as in he watched his highly talented daughter shack up with the king of the white court vamps and didn't do anything. Then he watched as his only grandson was raised by a evil twisted mf who tried to brain wash his only grandson in to becoming a evil twisted mf. Then had to raise his highly talented grandson and not make any of the same mistakes that he felt he obviously made with his daughter. Oh and because he is such a bad ass he couldn't tell his grandson any of this. Plus he can kill people in a heart beat and doesn't have to answer for it to anyone other then himself.

Yeah he is off.

Secrets and lies. I think that having another one of Dresden's family members be an bad guy would cliche it to much.

[Silencer]

Oh, for sure. I don't *want* him to be evil, but I get that sinking feeling sometimes that he is gonna be. Hell, next thing we know, Justin DuMorne will be Harry's uncle or something. O.o

But I guess we'll have to see. Thinking about the setup for Ghost Story [spoilers, if you haven't read the synopsis yet], btw, and figure that three people Harry 'loves' is going to be interesting. I mean, that's quite a specific word, and if you take it in-book, quite a significant one. Murphy springs to mind. Susan is dead. Elaine has been absent for a tale or two, and she was his first love. Got a gut feeling that status is going to crop up sometime soon, too. His daughter can't possibly be one - I mean, aside from being the catalyst for all of Changes, if it was her and two others, guess who Harry is going to focus on? Well, once he finds out who they are, of course. Luccio is another option. Molly, perhaps, but she's been damsel-in-distress once already, and a fairly focal one at that. Could potentially, based on the specific use of the word 'love', rule out people who are 'just' friends, like Sanya, Stallings, Charity (oh the irony if it was her, though...). Ebenezar? I don't like Michael for it as the word seems wrong, and while it would be kinda interesting to see his nice retirement ruined, he is meant to be mostly out of play.

If I had to go for the grouping that would cause biggest fall-out/angst/hardest decision, I'd have to go for Murphy, Elaine and Ebenezar. Possibly substituting Molly for one of them. Luccio is the next most likely, imo. The wording indicates a kind of plot to hit Harry's friends - though unless someone knows he didn't truly die, that seems odd. Could also be completely unrelated threats, which would be...well, if not a 'twist', then a change from paranoid situations of doom.

Gah, so keen for Ghost Story! Reading the Side Jobs stuff now. Pretty good, if obviously shorter than normal and less involved. Great for back-story though.

ETA: Also, is it just me (most likely) or does anyone else get a bit miffed whenever the whole Summer/Winter balance thing comes up? I get that they need to be balanced, and see that as making sense - but with the power shift stuff...is Butcher just forgetting the entire Southern hemisphere? Or are there a whole load of reasons why I'm taking this far too literally? XD
This seriously only occurred to me after I'd finished Changes, thinking back on the series, though it should have been an obvious thought back in Summer Knight, at least. Nothing major, but now it just keeps nagging me every time I consider the supposed power dynamic of the Fae Courts. Heh.

[Mentalist]

Finished Changes just now.

i'm now more than ever convinced that Harry's Mom is in charge of Black Council.

and yeah.... it could be the fact that i haven't had a fix in about two months, now, but I didn't really notice anything too drastic and off-putting about this one. yeah, sure, Harry took a major level up. but that's natural, since he's now he embodiment of Winter. And he has Uriel channeling through him


Odin was a nice touch. I clued into that one about 5 pages before he was properly introduced.
Too bad about Susan, I really liked her.

oh, and we ever figure out who sent Stevie D?

[Silencer]

I'm just keen on the fact that the novel after Ghost Story is slated to be called "Winter Knight". Epicness is bound to ensue.

Not sold on Harry's mom - she used her Death Curse, after all. I know that isn't 100% proof that she's dead and gone, but it still is a huge factor in any theories involving her being alive. She might have been behind it, though.

I agree that Harry's power-up wasn't out of place. Plus, we know that his magic (at least) is tied to emotions in some ways, and he was one HUGE pot of anger from basically the opening page.

I never particularly liked Susan - she was fine as a character, but her relationship with Harry was pretty weird...then again, that kind of figures, I guess.

And I'm pretty sure Stevie D was heavily suggested to have been sent by the Eebs - not confirmed, I don't think, but that was Harry's best guess due to the fact he thought Susan sent him.

And at least Ghost Story is not too far off now...I've even been watching anime (alright, one anime show...which coincidentally is probably the only anime I have ever liked enough from the start to watch through to the end, and I am very disappointed that it only had 26 episodes) to tide me over. :S

[Eddie Dean]

Damnit! After reading this thread I have a uncontrollable desire to re-read this entire series.....thanks guys.

[Abyss]

Eddie Dean, on 02 April 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

Damnit! After reading this thread I have a uncontrollable desire to re-read this entire series.....thanks guys.

I waver on just when i'm going to do a re-read, but it'll happen eventually. This seeries is too good not to. Plus i'm curious to see how much groundwork Butcher laid down for later payoff.

[HoosierDaddy]

You need to read Alera, Abyss. Love me some Dresden, but Alera scratches that itch in a different way.

[Mentalist]

Abyss, on 03 April 2011 - 05:09 AM, said:

Eddie Dean, on 02 April 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

Damnit! After reading this thread I have a uncontrollable desire to re-read this entire series.....thanks guys.

I waver on just when i'm going to do a re-read, but it'll happen eventually. This seeries is too good not to. Plus i'm curious to see how much groundwork Butcher laid down for later payoff.

I also want to do one, eventually, but I still need to do a MBotF re-read once I get home... AND re-read ASOIAF to refresh it before ADWD.

and I only yesterday realized that The Dresden Files is now 12 books long already (not including Side Jobs. or Ghost Story)

[Silencer]

I pretty much started a re-read immediately after finishing the series the first time - it kind of devolved into a per-book basis. Like, White Night now has been read 3 times, Summer Knight twice, Proven Guilty thrice, etc.

A full re-read wasn't really doable simply because I kept itching to get to the next REALLY AWESOME BOOK on the list. :S

And yeah, Ment, it's already slated to be 22-ish books long, finishing up with that tantalizing Apocalyptic Trilogy...and Side Jobs is just the first anthology - Butcher already wants to write enough short stories to do another one.

I'll get around to a proper re-read eventually...probably between Ghost Story and Winter Knight. That makes sense seeing as I can have a bit of space on either side of the re-read between the new releases. Looking forward to that. ^^

Though if Ghost Story is as crazy as Changes, or worse, or it's another cliffhanger, I'm going to be screwed in that plan. I'll also probably be in a horrid state by the time WK finally rolls around. O.o

[MTS]

I've always thought I wouldn't enjoy the series if I read it a second time round, as I know who the killer/kidnapper/whathaveyou is beforehand, and how Harry is going to get out of certain situations. I'll probably end up giving it a go soon though, when does Ghost Story come out, in another month or so right?

This post has been edited by MTS: 03 April 2011 - 07:06 AM

[Silencer]

I honestly didn't have that problem. The stories which are predominantly plot-based, rather than characters-based, maybe...but as I said upthread, my real enjoyment out of this series are the relationships and character development arcs, and the "Whodunnit" aspect is more of a vehicle to bring those out/together.

Though, I will admit, I almost didn't bother reading the big finale of White Night the second time around, but I'm glad I did.

And even though I knew Aurora was the culprit in Summer Knight, I'd forgotten *most* of the specifics, if not the broad strokes, enough to enjoy the plot again. You should probably give it a go on Storm Front or similar, and see how it reads. That way you'll only be testing the water with one of the earlier books.

And yeah, Ghost Story is...July 28th? June 27th? One of those/something like that.

[MTS]

Oh, has it been pushed back? I thought it was coming out at the end of April...

[Silencer]

July 26, according to Amazon (and that's what I'd heard elsewhere). So yeah, unfortunately. Think the news was posted in this sub-forum somewhere a short while ago.

[Nicodimas]

Wow I just read this series lightning quick. I will need to do a re-read someday in the near future.

One thing I keep thinking with this one since it is so plot-centric is Comedy or Tragedy?

I am firmly on the opionion its a tragedy atm.

ARRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH to the ending.