Malazan Empire: Banaschar, Telorist and Curdle - Malazan Empire

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Banaschar, Telorist and Curdle Spoiler's if you have not read this book. Spoilers Spoilers Spoile Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Tattersail_ 

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 09:03 PM

Not sure if this has been mentioned but all view points would be grateful and if anyone would like to add more then great. Now warning

yes warning

spoiler warning, If you have not read dust of dreams then this is a spoiler warning, plus it could be a spoiler for the upcoming Crippled God book but not likely as it is just specualtion based on Dust of Dreams.

This passage from Dust of Dreams,

Quote

"Please oh please, show the mercy your ex-goddess so despised. Spit in her face with a gesture of goodwill! You'll be amply rewarded, yes, amply!"

"Riches," Banaschar said. "Worthless."

"Different reward, we assure you. Substantial, meaningful, valuable, timely."

He looked up from his study of the lef and eyed Telorast. "Like what?"

The reptile's skeleton head bobbed. "Power, my friend. More power than you can imagine-"

"I doubt that most sincerely."

"Power to do as you please, to whomever or whatever you please! Power gushing out, spilling down, bubbling up and leaving potent wet spots! Worthy reward, yes!"

"And if I hold you to that?"

"As surely as you hold that lovely leg, and the twine, as surely as that!"

"The pact is sealed," said Banaschar.

"Curdle! You hear that!"

"I heard. Are you mad? We don't share! We never share!"

"Shhh! He'll hear you!"

"Sealed," repeated Banaschar, sitting up.

"Ohhh," wailed Curdle, spinning faster and faster. "You've done it now! Telorast, you've done it now! Ohhh, look, I can't get away!"

"Empty promises, Curdle, I swear it!"

"Sealed," said banaschar again.

"Aaii! Thrice sealed! We're doomed!"



Firstly I would like to hear other peoples point of view on this text.

The reason I mentioned spoilers is because one it is a passage from the book, but more because what we see of Telorast and Curdle later in the book and the hint at the Betrayal? in The Crippled God?
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#2 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 09:31 PM

I really enjoyed that scene for no particular reason.

It isn't hard to see how this could go badly for Bana', is the classic 'you wanted power - here it is' *Bana is reduced to a drooling wreck* sort of thing.

I do not think this is setting up THE betrayal, but there are a LOT of possibilities at the moment...

- Bana on his own behalf, under the influence of Drek, or the Errant, or Telorast/Curdle;
- Tanakalian on his own behalf or for the Wolves when they realize Tavore has her own agenda;
- Lostara on behalf of Cotillion (unlikely, but there it is);
- Bottle as a result of brain damage or the Eres' influence (Nip's prophecy is still out there);
- Brys' uncertain status post resurrection;
- Hedge's uncertain status post resurrection;
- the bitter burned Fist from Aren whose name i'm blanking on;
- Throatslitter's Talon history;
- Crump just plain screwing up. Again;
- Stormy/Gesler's new allegiance to the KC;
- The Bolkado Queen and her forces, including the Barghast;
- Masan Gilani bringing in the Unbound;

..and probably a few others i'm forgetting.
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#3 User is offline   ShadowRaven 

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 09:48 PM

I'm not sure about the betrayal thing, I was fairly certain while I was reading the book that it would be the Unbound that Masan Gilani finds and mistakes for trustworthy allies, but that would be too obvious I guess.

In any case, about the passage above, this point in particular is interesting:

Quote

"Power to do as you please, to whomever or whatever you please! Power gushing out, spilling down, bubbling up and leaving potent wet spots! Worthy reward, yes!"


For some reason it makes me think of blood. I could easily see Telorast and Curdle promise Banaschar power, but in the end when he asks for it they gut him and "give him the power" of his own blood, or something along those lines. Maybe this pact is the reason the Fool card came up for him?
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#4 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 10:59 PM

They ARE/were dragons, and dragon blood does indeed leave potent wet spots.

- Abyss, ...wonders if he's the only one who think ''potent wet spots' reads sort of dirty.... oh stop staring at me you were thinking it too...
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#5 User is offline   Roldom 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 01:37 AM

View PostAbyss, on 30 January 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

;
- the bitter burned Fist from Aren whose name i'm blanking on;
-



Proberly spelt incorrectly but i think you mean tene berelta who was in charge of the red blades. but lostara killed him for Colition
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#6 User is offline   D'iversify 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 10:41 AM

View PostRoldom, on 31 January 2011 - 01:37 AM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 30 January 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

;
- the bitter burned Fist from Aren whose name i'm blanking on;
-



Proberly spelt incorrectly but i think you mean tene berelta who was in charge of the red blades. but lostara killed him for Colition
I'm fairly sure he's thinking of Blistig.
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#7 User is offline   Tattersail_ 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 10:52 AM

View PostAbyss, on 30 January 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

I really enjoyed that scene for no particular reason.

It isn't hard to see how this could go badly for Bana', is the classic 'you wanted power - here it is' *Bana is reduced to a drooling wreck* sort of thing.

I do not think this is setting up THE betrayal, but there are a LOT of possibilities at the moment...

- Bana on his own behalf, under the influence of Drek, or the Errant, or Telorast/Curdle;
- Tanakalian on his own behalf or for the Wolves when they realize Tavore has her own agenda;
- Lostara on behalf of Cotillion (unlikely, but there it is);
- Bottle as a result of brain damage or the Eres' influence (Nip's prophecy is still out there);
- Brys' uncertain status post resurrection;
- Hedge's uncertain status post resurrection;
- the bitter burned Fist from Aren whose name i'm blanking on;
- Throatslitter's Talon history;
- Crump just plain screwing up. Again;
- Stormy/Gesler's new allegiance to the KC;
- The Bolkado Queen and her forces, including the Barghast;
- Masan Gilani bringing in the Unbound;

..and probably a few others i'm forgetting.


Some very good ones here Abyss, SE has set this up so that the Betrayal could come from anywhere. I just read the Tanakalian part were the destriant melts and this could be interpreted as a foreshadowing of betrayal but I doubt it, I think Tanakalian will stay the course. I think the Betrayal could come from Banaschar, Stormy/Gesler or Masan but just thinking on it how about this crazy theory?

Banaschar is the hero, he uses Telorast and Curdle to help him because Tavore is the betrayer and she is using the army to be sacrificed for the crippled God? She is cold and heartless isn't she?

I doubt it though just a passing thought
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#8 User is offline   champ 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 11:01 AM

My three favourite for the betrayal are Tavore, Banaschar and Tanakalian...

Tavore for her ultimate goal... This will be a bolt out of the blue...
Banaschar as he's the obvious choice... So it more than likely will not come from him...
But Tanakalian is my favourite... He represents Elder Gods and they're not exactly on the same side as tBH plus there is a scene in DoD where he's talking about different faces wearing different masks, and whilst it could be interpreted as one thing, I think it could hint to something different... Long time plant by the FA?

Wouldn't know how that would work though with him been SA...

Wild speculation anyways!

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#9 User is offline   Roldom 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 11:12 AM

View PostD, on 31 January 2011 - 10:41 AM, said:

View PostRoldom, on 31 January 2011 - 01:37 AM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 30 January 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

;
- the bitter burned Fist from Aren whose name i'm blanking on;
-



Proberly spelt incorrectly but i think you mean tene berelta who was in charge of the red blades. but lostara killed him for Colition
I'm fairly sure he's thinking of Blistig.



blistigs bitter but im pretty sure he wasnt burned
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#10 User is offline   chaosek 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 11:41 AM

Been breaking my head on this betrayal as I like to speculate and been searching franticly for clues. Normally I see a major plot twist (esp in movies) coming from a mile away, but SE is just that good. My guesses so far:

- Tavore, either she's in with the FA or she wants to do something the Gods won't like. Thing about the perish is, the melting destriant specifically says the vow (given to Tavore) was a mistake. So maybe Tavore betrays the wolfs, which doesn't have to be bad for humanity as a whole. On the other hand, my first and favorite guess is Tavore bringing the Bonehunters to Kolanse as a blood sacrifice. Now that would be betrayal of the biggest kind. However, it is noticed that Fid is in on her plans (early in DoD) and I'm not inclined to believe he would be able to do that.
- Sinn. Why? She's freaking nuts and doesn't seem to care about humanity/civilisation. Also one of my weirder theories is that she is a FA, like Badayerll (or what's she called). Also when Tavore gives us insight into her plans (early DoD) Sinn is starteled as the warren of the FA is mentioned. Seems unlikely though.
- Stormy, he's got some of Herboric in him, which could contain some link to the CG (jade statues).
- the perish/ the mortal sword, Kurghalva or something. It occured to me that the wolves might not be sympathetic to civilization as it will wipe out their kind eventually (as has been seen by Setoc)
- Banashar, for obvious reasons. However, wouldnt D'rek have killed him for it? Also too obvious.
- Brys, for being an instrument in the hands of the old gods. This however could go for a lot of people.

And even after these there are far more to think of. Rafo and kudos for SE for not making this too obvious (although in hindsight it probably was there all along).

Edit: Also, in DoD Tavore says the FA, Elder gods, tCG etc don't know they are coming. However the FA, according to the blurb of tCG do know the're coming. So this leads me to believe that the betrayal has to do with the FA plan of wiping Wu clean.

This post has been edited by chaosek: 31 January 2011 - 11:43 AM

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#11 User is offline   Siergiej 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 11:54 AM

I wouldn't expect Tavore to literally betray anyone. She looks like a person pursuing her own goal from the very beginning. It's just the fact we don't know said goal, that may cause our jaws drop when adjunct (can we really still call her "adjunct"?) does whatever she plans to do.

I expect betrayal to come from Shadowthrone. Whoever he is currently allied with, this person (or ascendant, or whoever) will probably get fucked over in the end. Actually, I think that ST may end up being the big baddy of the Malazan series.
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#12 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 03:59 PM

View PostTattersail, on 31 January 2011 - 10:52 AM, said:

... Tavore is the betrayer and she is using the army to be sacrificed for the crippled God? She is cold and heartless isn't she?

I doubt it though just a passing thought


I seriously doubt that Tavore is the betrayer in any real sense, but what she intends to do runs counter to what (most if not all) the Gods want her to do and likely what most of her allies expect. I don't think she's on side with the FA or the CG, but i do think that she intends to release the CG to end humans being on the receiving end of his ongoing conflicts with the gods .

In essence, the betrayal is Tavore doing what she thinks best for the world. She mentioned in DoD her intention to free the CG, which runs counter to the gods' likely goal of another chaining.

View PostRoldom, on 31 January 2011 - 11:12 AM, said:

View PostD, on 31 January 2011 - 10:41 AM, said:

View PostRoldom, on 31 January 2011 - 01:37 AM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 30 January 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

;
- the bitter burned Fist from Aren whose name i'm blanking on;
-



Proberly spelt incorrectly but i think you mean tene berelta who was in charge of the red blades. but lostara killed him for Colition
I'm fairly sure he's thinking of Blistig.



blistigs bitter but im pretty sure he wasnt burned


Yah Blistig. I thought he was crisped at least a little at YGhatan but regardless that's who i mean. Much was made in DoD of how useless he's become.
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#13 User is offline   Lister of Smeg 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 04:33 PM

Blistig never went into Y'Ghatan. When the firestorm started, he saw Tavore standing against a backdrop of a world on fire and thought it was a vision of the future. Since then he's been convinced that he and the whole army are doomed so he isn't really concentrating on his duties. The betrayal could well be his now that Keneb isn't around to keep him in check.
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#14 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 07:00 PM

View Postchaosek, on 31 January 2011 - 11:41 AM, said:


- Banashar, for obvious reasons. However, wouldnt D'rek have killed him for it? Also too obvious.



This. Remember D'rek killed all his/her priests except Banaschar who remained faithful. Seeing how D'rek has a more or less physical connection with Banaschar ( the gut worms or something) it's highly probable that as soon Banaschar thought of betrayal D'rek would kill him.
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