[zenMichael]

OK, so I started a new topic since I'm going to start talking about specific stuff now. Hopefully Terez & anyone else interested will notice the new thread tho : )

So according to my Kindle I'm now 9% in! Huzzah! Possibly close to the end of the prologue! I'll admit, it's starting to lose me, esp. w/all the Tower politicking going on. Between the [Logain's warders] scene, the Yurikai (sp?) scene and the bickering Blues/Reds in the scene w/Elayne's brother, holy crap, I think we've had approximately 4 billion Aes Sedai named, with about four of them having motives we're sure about. I'm really hoping this is all resolved in like a parlour room scene with Yuri being like, 'And THAT made me realize YOU were Black Ajah, Suzie! BURN!' rather than like ... an assassination w/only a flitting shadow glimpsed fleeing from the scene, with either red or brown hair, approximately 2 hand spans taller than [insert named-once Aes Sedai here].

But mostly I have a ton of questions about the Bashere section. OK, first of all: what the hell were they doing in ... Caemlyn? Totally getting the place names confused, though I remember stuff ABOUT the places in general. They were watching over the Lion Throne, right? The place Rand took over at the end of ACOS? But, like, if they're Dragonsworn I'm assuming they're watching to make sure nobody's making a move against Rand's leadership? Yet, like, Bashere sees a bunch of flags together as if unified and is just like, 'huh, that's interesting,' but doesn't seem perturbed. And if they're just doing recon, why is that younger guy (Temul? I keep getting names mixed up with MBOTF, and the fact that Bashere's got a guy named Quick in his unit doesn't help much...) bristling that they're not attacking? Is Bashere being overly cautious here b/c he doesn't want to fight, or is Temul just raring for a fight? I'll admit it was quite late when I read this section so maybe I missed an obvious sentence saying what exactly their job WAS, but still. And I could probably look a lot of this up, but I'm a little concerned about spoilers, and, Terez, you seemed eager to help out someone struggling w/this stuff, so I hope you don't mind me asking you (and any others who want to chime in -- I'm curious if QuickTidal ever went back & read CoT or just skipped ahead).
OK, so ... the people who tried to take out Deira's wife (if that was their true mission--she might've just gotten in the way. Do we know if Bashere or Deira have anything in their tent that these people might've wanted?), since Bael or Temul says, 'obviously they were killed by two people unless it was ONE MAN WHO WAS AWESOME,' i immediately assume it was one wo/man who took them out. do we have any clue who that might've been, beyond the generalities of 'someone on Bashere/Rand/possibly Logain's side who wants to remain hidden for the moment OR the person who hired them, wanting to make sure they didn't talk'?
(As a side note, I also really dug Bashere/Deira's interaction. I'll admit, overall so far the crazy sexist thing I hate so much about RJ is mostly missing in CoT. I'm guessing that'll all go away once we get to Nynaeve or Egwene sections, but still, it's nice as a reprieve)
And since Terez made the comment that one other section in the prologue was related to the Logain section, I immediately assume the man who came to visit Bashere was Logain. But here're my questions: Was it Logain? If it was, WHY would Bashere not say yes immediately, since their goals seem to be the same (ie supporting Rand)? And why would two guys rummaging through his tent change his mind? (Had he just grown complacent, and this jogs him into action?)

Thanks for the assists, Terez or whoever wants to reply!

[QuickTidal]

I made a thread for every other book in my recent reading of the series...and I purposely didn't give one to CoT....cause it simply didn't deserve my time...being not only the worst book in the WOT series, but also one of the worst books I ever tried to read.

LOL



I dig almost every other book in the series though (TPoD gets a cursory nod for being crap, but not irredeemable crap like CoT)

[zenMichael]

QuickTidal, on 21 January 2011 - 03:55 PM, said:

I made a thread for every other book in my recent reading of the series...and I purposely didn't give one to CoT....cause it simply didn't deserve my time...being not only the worst book in the WOT series, but also one of the worst books I ever tried to read.

LOL



I dig almost every other book in the series though (TPoD gets a cursory nod for being crap, but not irredeemable crap like CoT)

i'm pretty much right there w/you as to that assessment (TPOD nearly killed me, but I liked the ending & I honestly did like WH, from what I remember), but I'm determined to make it through CoT this time around, if only because my somewhat OCD continuity-obsessed mind would not allow me to skip it.

[Terez]

I enjoyed CoT, and I know of quite a few people who did, but to each his own.

zenMichael, on 21 January 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

But mostly I have a ton of questions about the Bashere section. OK, first of all: what the hell were they doing in ... Caemlyn?

They've pretty much been there since Rand conquered Caemlyn at the end of TFOH aside from a couple of campaigns. They continued to hang out outside the city after Elayne showed up at the end of TPOD, but because of Andoran customs she refused their help. So, Bashere is overseeing the Legion of the Dragon in addition to his nine thousand Saldaean horse. The Legion is pretty much all the men who show up at the Black Tower and fail the test. Rand used them when he went against Sammael in Illian at the end of ACOS, and again against the Seanchan in TPOD. Other than training the Legion, Bashere was feeling pretty useless in Caemlyn since Elayne wasn't interested in his assistance, and most Andorans see him and the Aiel as enemy forces, if not so much as to attack them.

Quote

OK, so ... the people who tried to take out Deira's wife (if that was their true mission--she might've just gotten in the way. Do we know if Bashere or Deira have anything in their tent that these people might've wanted?), since Bael or Temul says, 'obviously they were killed by two people unless it was ONE MAN WHO WAS AWESOME,' i immediately assume it was one wo/man who took them out. do we have any clue who that might've been, beyond the generalities of 'someone on Bashere/Rand/possibly Logain's side who wants to remain hidden for the moment OR the person who hired them, wanting to make sure they didn't talk'?

Rand tasked Bashere with watching the seals on the Dark One's prison back in LOC. There are three that are theoretically still intact. It was probably the same thing going on with Dobraine (also in the prologue - they were probably considered to be the most likely to be guarding them).

Quote

(As a side note, I also really dug Bashere/Deira's interaction. I'll admit, overall so far the crazy sexist thing I hate so much about RJ is mostly missing in CoT. I'm guessing that'll all go away once we get to Nynaeve or Egwene sections, but still, it's nice as a reprieve)

The thing about the WoT world is that the sexism aspect is really incongruous. In some cases, the women are very sexist, and in some ways, RJ's own cultural conditioning shines through. He tried to make a world where women held more power than men for the most part, and he tried to make the women's attitudes reflect that realistically.

Quote

And since Terez made the comment that one other section in the prologue was related to the Logain section, I immediately assume the man who came to visit Bashere was Logain. But here're my questions: Was it Logain?

Yup.

Quote

If it was, WHY would Bashere not say yes immediately, since their goals seem to be the same (ie supporting Rand)?

I imagine he wasn't sure if he could trust Logain...and Logain needs Bashere to approach Rand, because Logain doesn't know if he can trust Rand, which is probably smart because Rand probably wouldn't trust Logain. Logain had the means to find Rand - the Warders he picked up in Cairhien, bonded to women with Rand - and this incident convinced Bashere it was necessary. Presumably he's hanging out in Caemlyn on Rand's orders, probably to protect Elayne.

Hope that helps.

[zenMichael]

Terez, definitely helps. Thanks. I'll be sure to post if other thoughts/questions pop up, as I'm sure they will (I've been racking my mind all morning trying to remember the name of Rand's Aiel girl -- I remember he's got Elayne, Min and .... some awesome assassin Aiel chick, right? And she bonds w/Elayne at the beginning of WH? Gah! Frustrating [EDIT: Aviendha!]). I remember enjoying the prologue, mostly, of CoT, it's just ... Mat and those goddamn circus folk. Like, I understand the idea that a lot of these books are the characters "becoming who they need to be" for the last battle, but mostly it seems like our top 3 fighters spend most of their time bickering (rand/mat) or stewing (perrin). i mean, seriously, is mat's part in the last battle going to be bickering with circus folk? HE HAS BEEN PREPARED. also, i'm trying to remember, didn't someone have a vision/prophecy involving rand and a boat? am i misremembering that? probably not important until the end, but ...

And, QuickTidal, if it wasn't obvious from my posts in the WH post, i've been rereading your comments on the rereads rather than actually rereading myself. i remembered a good 30% of what you were talking about! heh.

oh, and for the record, i know everyone usually loves mat, but for what it's worth, i was always a perrin fan (until faile shows up. then he's ruined). the big lumbering but well-intentioned guy who feels clueless all the time? i'm there.

And, Terez, i get what you're saying about the sexism thing, like ... if you imagined our world as matriarchal around the middle ages time period, what would it be like, etc. i guess the MAIN thing that pisses me off is how annoyingly self-centered yet lacking in self-awareness everyone is. like that quote from quicktidal about 'she was getting too violent. someone should slap some sense into her!' it's like, SERIOUSLY, nynaeve, are you THAT lacking in introspection? and just how obsessed they all are with their little power games about like ... making people wait if they said the wrong thing, or blah blah blah, rules rules hierarchies when IT'S THE END OF THE EFFING WORLD HERE. it just gets tiresome. and most of the "romances" just seem so ridiculous. we could cut out about 700 pages from books 4-10 of perrin/faile BS if they just TALKED for 4 pages. ugh. like, i think that's why some things like perrin's neverending faile quest are so annoying. not because they go on for 3 books, but because, y'know, who cares if he finds her? not me! i kinda hope she's dead & that makes him flip out, turn into a wolf full time & rand gets to have him on a leash for the last battle. HEEL, PERRIN! OGIER BEAR STARE!!

This post has been edited by zenMichael: 21 January 2011 - 05:51 PM

[Terez]

The boat thing...I would refer you to my Blood on the Rocks page, but it has MAJOR SPOILERS for upcoming books (like, even in the first paragraph). Read it when you're done with TOM (though some might say it would spoil AMOL, too).

[zenMichael]

Terez, on 22 January 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

The boat thing...I would refer you to my Blood on the Rocks page, but it has MAJOR SPOILERS for upcoming books (like, even in the first paragraph). Read it when you're done with TOM (though some might say it would spoil AMOL, too).

i tried checking this page out anyway, and it said I didn't have access to view it, so I guess that kept me spoiler free. Heh. Although, I dunno, when dealing with prophecies, does it count as spoilers? Like, for instance, is saying Rand will lose a hand or that Mat will lose an eye really a spoiler? I guess spilling what book it happens in would be, but...

Anyway, I'm 20% in! The Mat/circus folk section is definitely different than I remember it, but no less frustrating. I liked the first chapter, where everything is just dismal and Noal is like 'screw it, I'm gonna fish.' But it feels like RJ got so used to naming EVERYBODY and talking about their actions as teasers for the hard core fans that he just couldn't stop. like, it made sense in the white tower scenes. getting to know how EVERY CIRCUS PERFORMER reacts to the news they're leaving feels a BIT unnecessary. and though I found a lot of the 'egeanin acted THIS way to X circumstance and THAT way to Y' exposition helpful since i haven't read the series in so long, even i was skipping large chunks of that by chapter 2 b/c HE'D SAID IT NOT 2 PAGES AGO.

the ONLY thing i know to talk about at this point is: do we have ANY inkling of idea as to why Tuon would ask that about remembering Artur Hawkwing's face? Have we even gotten a clue? I don't even remember why Mat was in Ebou Dar (he's been there since ACOS, hasn't he?), so if that ties in at all, I'm clueless. my ONLY guess is since Tuon is super important & the seanchean have like AS slaves, maybe she's had prophecy told her about mat as well? but that's just a guess, not something i recall or anything. Anyway....

[Illuyankas]

"So it will come to pass that the new reader ask the questions of baffling references, and the forum members will remind them that all that confuses them is prophecy related or based
And also the unimportant stuff as well."
Illy, The Illuyankas Cycle, Fourteenth Age 2011

[Terez]

zenMichael, on 22 January 2011 - 05:47 PM, said:

Terez, on 22 January 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

The boat thing...I would refer you to my Blood on the Rocks page, but it has MAJOR SPOILERS for upcoming books (like, even in the first paragraph). Read it when you're done with TOM (though some might say it would spoil AMOL, too).

i tried checking this page out anyway, and it said I didn't have access to view it, so I guess that kept me spoiler free.

It's fixed now.

Quote

Heh. Although, I dunno, when dealing with prophecies, does it count as spoilers? Like, for instance, is saying Rand will lose a hand or that Mat will lose an eye really a spoiler? I guess spilling what book it happens in would be, but...

Some people think so. But the above page discusses things that happen in books 11-13, in a very spoilerific way.

Quote

the ONLY thing i know to talk about at this point is: do we have ANY inkling of idea as to why Tuon would ask that about remembering Artur Hawkwing's face? Have we even gotten a clue?

Yes, there was a clue in the chapter where Tuon was introduced in WH. One of her damane had a Foretelling and Tuon punished her for it.

Quote

I don't even remember why Mat was in Ebou Dar (he's been there since ACOS, hasn't he?)

He was in Salidar because Rand told him to go get Elayne. Elayne had other idea, so he went with them to Ebou Dar so that the girls could find the Bowl of the Winds.

[zenMichael]

cool. thanks. so here's a question: i'm assuming since you're on these boards you must be a MBotF fan. just wondering, what's your favorite MBotF book? i'm guessing you're more a RJ fan b/c you describe yourself as a WoT fangirl, but still. My favorite WoT so far was book 4 (on a reread i didn't like it as much, but i still overall enjoyed it. my least favorite is probably book 8, and i don't say 10 since i still haven't actually finished it -- it could redeem itself completely at some point), and my favorite MBotF is book 6 (least favorite is book 5). (oh, and i haven't read book 9, so it could replace either of those)

[zenMichael]

ok, so i skimmed blood on the rocks. i don't think i had anything spoilered except a line here & there. well, ok, one thing, but it didn't bother me any. and i got the quote i was looking for, so all good.

you forgot the other popular theory, tho, the 'weekend at bernie's' theory. he's on the boat being puppeteered by the women around him. <obviously fake voice> 'countries, continue following me! do not fight! peace is good! just gonna ... fish now! huzzah!'

[Terez]

zenMichael, on 22 January 2011 - 06:27 PM, said:

cool. thanks. so here's a question: i'm assuming since you're on these boards you must be a MBotF fan. just wondering, what's your favorite MBotF book?

I haven't read Dust of Dreams yet either. The main reason is that I need probably at least three re-reads (I've only read the books once straight through) before I really know what's going on. I needed about ten not to mention discussing the books on a daily basis to really have a clue what was going on in WoT. So I realized when DoD came out that I didn't have time to catch up before book 10 came out, so I (temporarily) gave up on it. I'll get back to it one day, probably when WoT is done. (I spend a LOT of time on WoT.)

It's hard to say what my favorite book was. Right now I want to say it was Toll the Hounds. I wanted to say that after I read it, but I feel more confident saying it after it's been out so long. Even as a Malazan noob I was able to notice that his series-running themes had some epic proportions that resonated quite a bit in this book. It was good stuff. My favorite bit was the on-again, off-again Kruppe narration. Sometimes, you weren't sure if he was still narrating or not, and it was always an interesting thing to consider. In that way it kind of reminded me of Lews Therin's voice. If you keep in mind that it's really Rand talking to himself, then things get a lot more interesting.

Quote

My favorite WoT so far was book 4

Me too.

Quote

on a reread i didn't like it as much

I love it more every time I read it. So much good stuff in that book. It will be especially nice to read after TOM.

Quote

my least favorite is probably book 8

This is why people hate book 8:

1. No Mat.
2. Long annoying scene at the beginning (of all places - this might have gone over better in the middle) with women being stereotypically cattish and annoying etc.

Other than that it's a really good book. Some would add:

3. Rand is being a prick.

But not me. (See above comments about Lews Therin, and add the fact that...oh wait, you don't know about that yet. Sorry. Unless that's the spoiler you read on the Blood on the Rocks page.)

Quote

it could redeem itself completely at some point

It redeems itself with a fantastically cliffhangerish ending which made fans scream at the time because they had to wait 3 years for the next book, but you don't have that problem so you'll survive.

Quote

least favorite is book 5

Before I fell in love with TTH, 5 was probably my favorite. Maybe 7, but 7 confused me in a lot of ways and I gathered it confused some of the hardcore fans too because of some plot inconsistencies or whatever? Anyway, I liked the book a lot despite that. 6 was really good too. I even liked 4, which some people hated. But on re-read I imagine they like it better now. (6 was new when I started reading.) I gather a lot of oldtimers are in love with 3 and I can see why. My least favorite by a long shot was 2. Ugh, that book was wretched. I'm not saying it was a bad book. It was a good book in some very important ways. I just hated reading it.

[zenMichael]

Toll the Hounds is, I'd say, by FAR the best written of the Malazan series. Bonehunters just surprised me in a lot of ways & had a lot of stuff that I REALLY dug in it so that's why it's my personal favorite. TtH is definitely #2 on my list. I just finished it a couple of months ago & got rep for some of my comments in the forum! huzzah!

I think my problem w/Shadow Rising on a reread is that it really is an AWFUL lot of buildup before we finally get to the Aiel Wastes. oddly, on a reread, I think Great Hunt stood out more for me as a "favorite." But I do still love the second half of tSR quite a bit (it's probably where I really started liking Mat). And, yeah, for me book 8 the problem is totally that bowl of the winds plot. oy. i didn't care about mat not being there, though i thought it was odd he didn't at least get like a little epilogue mention. 'somewhere, in a gorgeous [insert ridiculously long description of color scheme & fabrics used on the bed], mat stirred.' something like that. i did like the ending. i'm cool w/rand being a dick, and going batshit, i just ... i dunno. i think him interacting w/lews reminds me too much of the way that the White Tower bitches deal with each other. like, if i had the voice of a guy who died long ago in my head and he was telling me important things, i wouldn't constantly be like SHUT UP! i'd be like, 'oh? really? this dude's gonna betray me? seriously, tell me more. i don't wanna be caught off guard here.' i mean, you've already accepted you're the dragon reborn, what harm is listening to the voice in your head REALLY going to do? (and i think you touched on the thing i did spoiler myself on by skimming Blood on the Rocks, which is who the other voice in Rand's head is--if that's what you were implying there--and seriously, it might not even BE a spoiler; it might've been revealed already, but I don't recall that). it reminds me of one of my favorite bits in Last Temptation of Christ, where Jesus is telling his mother about the voices in his head & she says, essentially, 'we must drive the demons out of you,' and he says, 'but what if it's god, mother? how do you drive out the voice of god?' i LOVE that. (they are all the same story, of course. Joe Campbell tells us so--actually I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention--that I saw--the whole "cave in shayol goul"/cave that christ is buried in and where they find him reborn parallel in that essay ... though maybe it's in the one the "same story" link led to). Anyway, I totally believe that Lews Therin is real, not Rand talking to himself, but I'll try imagining it the other way and see if that makes it more amusing.

I totally understand about needing re-reads. I basically feel the same way about WoT, but I'll admit, I'm just not a big enough fan of RJ's writing, and there's TONS of other stuff out there, AND i'm a fairly slow reader, so ... I'm determined to get through it, but probably not with a huge amt of understanding. I'm on my second read through of MBotF right now (Erikson's writing is just gorgeous, I think). Just finished book 4. taking a break before diving into 5 again (I think it's still well-written, it's just that I think everything w/the Letherii is so ... obvious and uninteresting; and everything with the Edur just feels so ridiculously bad fantasy trope-ish to me).

so was DG "wretched" to you because of the fact it's such an intense tragedy? you say it's a good book but you hated reading it, so i'm assuming it's because it's tough to get through, knowing how it ends? or am i misunderstanding? those very reasons are probably why it was my favorite up until i read tBH. It gets SO much rougher on a reread. but that's what i like, writing that can rip your heart out and stomp on it. i should give you my list of favorite books so you know never to read them : )
I really liked MoI as well, because how can you NOT love that RIDICULOUSLY epic ending? And because Toc is my favorite character in the whole series (closely seconded by Gruntle), and his part in that book is, well, see why I love DG : ) (AND THEN AGAIN IN RG! MY GOD, ERIKSON!!!)

anyway, probably back to reading again soon. procrastinating making/buying food & reading forums/drunk hulk tweets at the moment.

[Terez]

zenMichael, on 22 January 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

I think my problem w/Shadow Rising on a reread is that it really is an AWFUL lot of buildup before we finally get to the Aiel Wastes.

The early chapters of TSR are some of the best IMO. TSR 17 is one of my favorite chapters in the series. I love the way that Moiraine and Thom compete for the parental position with Rand, both of them trying to take care of him in their own ways. The bubble of evil that attacked the three ta'veren was fantastic stuff. Perrin vs his axe, Mat vs his luck, and Rand vs himself. I imagine your problem was with the girls' chapters, but even those were interesting if for no other reason than Moiraine's part in them (and Thom's, after Moiraine bundled him up and sent him off with the girls to Tanchico).

By the way, people complain about Perrin's chapters the most in COT. I happen to love reading it, and I can't wait to get there again now that I've read TOM. The finale of his plotline in COT is less action and more thematic, but even the COT-haters tend to remember 'What Must Be Done' fondly.

Quote

so was DG "wretched" to you because of the fact it's such an intense tragedy?

No, that was the good part.

Quote

you say it's a good book but you hated reading it, so i'm assuming it's because it's tough to get through, knowing how it ends?

I have only read it once remember? I have tried to read it again - I managed to get through GOTM at least once more - but I just can't do it. All that wandering around in the desert is just tedious, not to mention Felisin. Ugh.

Quote

I really liked MoI as well, because how can you NOT love that RIDICULOUSLY epic ending?

A book is more than its ending. This one suffered a bit from.....um.....what was her name? The mother of...um...Tattersail/Nightchill reborn? I forget. Mhybe? Something like that.

[zenMichael]

Terez, on 22 January 2011 - 07:51 PM, said:

The early chapters of TSR are some of the best IMO. TSR 17 is one of my favorite chapters in the series. I love the way that Moiraine and Thom compete for the parental position with Rand, both of them trying to take care of him in their own ways. The bubble of evil that attacked the three ta'veren was fantastic stuff. Perrin vs his axe, Mat vs his luck, and Rand vs himself. I imagine your problem was with the girls' chapters, but even those were interesting if for no other reason than Moiraine's part in them (and Thom's, after Moiraine bundled him up and sent him off with the girls to Tanchico).

and these were the parts i was referring to as being slow. heh. it just felt like (on a reread) filler to make something SLIGHTLY more action-oriented happen towards the beginning, but nothing that really did/said anything.

Quote

By the way, people complain about Perrin's chapters the most in COT. I happen to love reading it, and I can't wait to get there again now that I've read TOM. The finale of his plotline in COT is less action and more thematic, but even the COT-haters tend to remember 'What Must Be Done' fondly.

well, the ebook cover is perrin, and it's pretty nice looking, so i like it already b/c of the fact that the cover is so good.

Quote

I have only read it once remember? I have tried to read it again - I managed to get through GOTM at least once more - but I just can't do it. All that wandering around in the desert is just tedious, not to mention Felisin. Ugh.

felisin is pretty rough, that's true. i'll be honest, the first time i was reading her bits i kept thinking, 'god she is as self-absorbed & annoying as a RJ female character!' heh. what's weird is though i never liked felisin or felt even the slightest bit of sympathy for her, really, i still always tear up at the end of house of chains ('oh, mother, look at us now'). i actually went back & reread DG, but JUST the bits i didn't remember much about (fiddler, iskaral, iccy & mappo, and the stormy/gesler stuff) and i was AMAZED at how much stuff happens in there i'd forgotten. DG is a weird book in that my favorite part of it (the chain of dogs) is so removed from everything else. like, seriously, on a reread i was like, 'wait, these guys FIND the path of hands??? holy crap!' of course on a first read through of GotM i didn't notice that Rake was Soletaken, soooooo .... yeah. I was pretty lost for quite some time. oh, and i dig the marching through the desert stuff. i found it awesome watching coltaine, this like brilliant tactical strategist, get one-upped by the sappers; nil and nether; bult's shockingly dry sense of humor; etc.

Quote

A book is more than its ending. This one suffered a bit from.....um.....what was her name? The mother of...um...Tattersail/Nightchill reborn? I forget. Mhybe? Something like that.

oh, yeah. i know the book is supposed to be ABOUT motherhood & everything, so her parts are obviously meant to be SUPER IMPORTANT, but holy crap did i skip these sections on a reread. i love the navel-gazing in erikson's stuff, but yeeeeesh. it just seemed like it was one note over & over again. maybe not being a parent myself made it mean less? i don't know. also i still don't really GET what happened w/her at the end of MoI so that could be an issue. anyway, ok, seriously now. reading time.

[Terez]

zenMichael, on 22 January 2011 - 09:09 PM, said:

and these were the parts i was referring to as being slow. heh. it just felt like (on a reread) filler to make something SLIGHTLY more action-oriented happen towards the beginning, but nothing that really did/said anything.

TSR 9-10 are also among my favorites (the first strong evidence that Rand is remembering his past life). I probably reference those chapters more than any others.

Quote

Quote

By the way, people complain about Perrin's chapters the most in COT. I happen to love reading it, and I can't wait to get there again now that I've read TOM. The finale of his plotline in COT is less action and more thematic, but even the COT-haters tend to remember 'What Must Be Done' fondly.

well, the ebook cover is perrin, and it's pretty nice looking, so i like it already b/c of the fact that the cover is so good.

That is a depiction of the chapter I mentioned.

Quote

i never liked felisin or felt even the slightest bit of sympathy for her, really, i still always tear up at the end of house of chains ('oh, mother, look at us now').

Mostly because you felt sorry for Tavore, huh? I know that was true for me.

[zenMichael]

I felt sorry for them both. Just the sheer ... frustration that Tavore did so much to try to help Felisin, and Felisin was just too blind & full of self-hatred to see it. Such a waste, and so many lives lost because of it.

I started reading the KoD thread b/c I'm a glutton for punishment, and I saw your note about constantly trying to get BS's attention on twitter (and holy crap, the tar valon map -- hahahahaha; TOTALLY didn't catch that when I first read the series ... possibly b/c I never looked at the maps, but still). as a sidenote, i live in provo, UT (well, technically springville, one town south) now, so if you want i can keep an eye out for any appearances hereabouts (i remember seeing lots of signs when elantris first came out & thinking, 'wonder who that is?' i think the Borders up north still has a ton of signed copies) & tell him you send regards or something if you want. i'm not really big into meeting authors, but ....

anyway, just something i thought i'd mention. 30% into CoT now. not much to say, sadly. not hating it, but just ... kind of ... hanging in there. GOD could this book use some editing.

[acesn8s]

Terez, on 22 January 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

The boat thing...I would refer you to my Blood on the Rocks page, but it has MAJOR SPOILERS for upcoming books (like, even in the first paragraph). Read it when you're done with TOM (though some might say it would spoil AMOL, too).

Excellent research.

I have a theory that may strengthen the theory about Nyneave and resurrecting Rand. You mention Nyneave finding Rand in Ter’ using “need,” she could also use the link between her and Rand from healing him. I believe in book one Moiraine mentioned that Nyneave could track the party because she had healed someone (Egwene) in the past.

Nyneave heals Rand after the battle with Rahvin. So, she should be able to sense Rand.

[Terez]

acesn8s, on 24 January 2011 - 03:03 PM, said:

Terez, on 22 January 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

The boat thing...I would refer you to my Blood on the Rocks page, but it has MAJOR SPOILERS for upcoming books (like, even in the first paragraph). Read it when you're done with TOM (though some might say it would spoil AMOL, too).

Excellent research.

I have a theory that may strengthen the theory about Nyneave and resurrecting Rand. You mention Nyneave finding Rand in Ter' using "need," she could also use the link between her and Rand from healing him. I believe in book one Moiraine mentioned that Nyneave could track the party because she had healed someone (Egwene) in the past.

Nyneave heals Rand after the battle with Rahvin. So, she should be able to sense Rand.

First of all, I tend to think of this as being a TEOTWism. I'm addressing it in the re-read post I'm working on right now. We never see it again for the rest of the series. For another thing, I'm not so sure it would be helpful to Nynaeve if she is looking for Rand in Tel'aran'rhiod. It only allows her to sense people over short distances, and there is nothing to say that his death would not break the link anyway. And most importantly, I get the impression that Heroes in Tel'aran'rhiod cannot be found if they are trying to hide, at least under normal circumstances. That's why Need would be necessary, and I'm assuming that it would have to be a pretty great Need to be able to find a dead Hero in Tel'aran'rhiod.

[Illuyankas]

Terez, on 24 January 2011 - 04:29 PM, said:

I get the impression that Heroes in Tel'aran'rhiod cannot be found if they are trying to hide, at least under normal circumstances. That's why Need would be necessary, and I'm assuming that it would have to be a pretty great Need to be able to find a dead Hero in Tel'aran'rhiod.

Elayne: "Hey Rand, I'm just chilling here with our babies, want to see them? Or suggest names?"
Rand: *pops up from behind corner* "Well, Lews and Ilyena seem pretty cliche but-"
Nynaeve: "GOTCHA, BITCH!" *kicks Rand in the mortality*