[Ceda Cicero]

Apologies if this is nonsensical. It's rushed, and mostly the product of back and forth theoryland time between a buddy and myself as we sampled the beer that we brewed last month for the first time (extensively.) Further apologies if this is redundant and there's already a thread on this somewhere.

My friend posited a theory that at first I dismissed, but then considered more closely: what if the force mysteriously guiding the Adjunct throughout the story has been K'rul? Let me support it with a few paltry pieces of evidence. As you'll see, my quote fu is weak. Someone with stronger reference mojo can jump on board and back me, or eviscerate me as they see fit. In any case, full credit for this goes out to my friend, who got me into MBotF in the first place, who maybe one day I will convince to come on these boards if Abyss will stop making brain-mastication-related threats.

-Bottle listens in on Tavore's chambers throughout DoD. He hears nothing. This of course could mean nothing or any number of things, in particular, warren communique/travel. However Tavore's not a mage and it's commonly known that she has no sorcerous ability (this could be revealed to not be the case, but I highly doubt it) so she's not initiating this herself.

-This could mean that Tavore could be getting her information from her dreams.

-Who do we know that has a history of taking direct action through dreams? K'rul, with Kruppe as a conduit. Further, Kruppe has a history of meddling with huge affairs in not-so-indirect manners. Most notably in my mind, he's the one who convinces Ganoes Paran to travel to 7C in the Bonehunters.

-K'rul is notably absent in the going-ons on the Lether landmass, which is odd since - whatever happens at the final Convergence - he will be close to (if not the) crux of it. As Kruppe says in the TtH prologue, "Kruppe suspects that you are [this war's] prize." Further, one would think that with all the hubub around Elder Gods in that region, we'd see some hint of K'rul's activity, or some further mention of him. Unless he's already played his hand, in a more subtle way, and is content to let that gambit ride.

-Finally, this explanation would tie Kruppe in to the final volume without necessarily moving him from D'istan to the Lether landmass in a tangible and credible way that doesn't seem rushed. Something that, IMO, is almost necessary given the hints of Kruppe's importance/potency throughout the series - it gives him closure in the main story arc, while still leaving him positioned physically in Darujhistan (since he would be appearing only in Tavore's/K'rul's shared dream thingy ala GotM and MoI) for what will likely be a prominent role in ICE's D'istan novel.

-The same is true of K'rul. He has to be tied in somehow. Just has to. Especially with Iccy's new warrens. And by making this the explanation for Tavore's seeming percipience all this time, it would tie him in very neatly, very nicely, in a way that we'll all mind-fucked a lil but also smacking our heads saying we shoulda seen it coming.

Other miscellaneous musings are that Mael seems to have some insight into the role that Tavore must/will play, and he gives her the dagger (right?) and tells her something about using it "when the blood is required." Of course this could mean a hundred different things.... but I for one always make a connection between the requirement of blood and Elder Gods, and K'rul most of all.

All right, I'm done here. Thoughts?

This post has been edited by Ciceronian: 05 January 2011 - 03:28 PM

[Aptorian]

While I could believe that K'rul could be visiting Tavore in her dreams, you are forgetting a different entity. The Eres. She had been possessing T'amber up until she died in BH. That's where Tavore got all of her info. She was being prepped for the war on Lether by the Eres I think.

[amphibian]

Jenisapt Rul, on 05 January 2011 - 04:14 AM, said:

While I could believe that K'rul could be visiting Tavore in her dreams, you are forgetting a different entity. The Eres. She had been possessing T'amber up until she died in BH. That's where Tavore got all of her info. She was being prepped for the war on Lether by the Eres I think.

I really like Ciceronian's theory.

The Eres giving Tavore information and training through T'amber does not necessarily rule out K'rul. Furthermore, T'amber died in BH, and Tavore went to Lether after that to deal with Rhulad's Edur. It could be true that Tavore had the intention of taking down the Edur empire and then going to Kolanse, but why sit in Lether so long? The Malazans, Khundryl and Perish were ready to move much earlier than that.

My theory is that she got the correct information through Fiddler's reading and through her own sources - whatever they may be - and that is what targeted her to Kolanse.

[Ceda Cicero]

amphibian, on 05 January 2011 - 04:23 AM, said:

Jenisapt Rul, on 05 January 2011 - 04:14 AM, said:

While I could believe that K'rul could be visiting Tavore in her dreams, you are forgetting a different entity. The Eres. She had been possessing T'amber up until she died in BH. That's where Tavore got all of her info. She was being prepped for the war on Lether by the Eres I think.

I really like Ciceronian's theory.

The Eres giving Tavore information and training through T'amber does not necessarily rule out K'rul. Furthermore, T'amber died in BH, and Tavore went to Lether after that to deal with Rhulad's Edur. It could be true that Tavore had the intention of taking down the Edur empire and then going to Kolanse, but why sit in Lether so long? The Malazans, Khundryl and Perish were ready to move much earlier than that.

My theory is that she got the correct information through Fiddler's reading and through her own sources - whatever they may be - and that is what targeted her to Kolanse.

@ Apt - I didn't forget the Eres, I just think there's more going on than a continuation of what we saw in BH between T'amber and Tavore. Further, I don't doubt that Tavore got a lot of information through T'amber in her capacity as Eres'al avatar/possessed/whatever, but IIRC I don't think Tavore knew T'amber WAS the Eres'al. As Grub tells Lostara Yil in BH when they see the Eres'al/T'amber connection, "The Adjunct can never know." All this is to say, I'm not trying to dismiss the likelihood that Tavore was being indirectly (and I do believe it's indirectly, as I think she thought that T'amber was just a badass Adept of the Deck, and did not suspect that she was goddess possessed) informed by the Eres'al, but she's definitely still getting what would seem to be new information from SOME source, even after BH when T'amber is out of the picture. IMO there have been way too many winks and nudges about Tavore and how she knows what she knows for the explanation to be as simple as "Oh well remember how T'amber was the Eres'al? Well since she died Tavore's just been chatting with her in her dreams." In comes my theory.

Anyhoo, all of that was sort of unrelated, and basically I agree with Amph that I don't think K'rul's involvement would somehow countermand or exclude the Eres'al. She definitely still has a big role to play, and I'm sure that Tavore is tied up in it somehow.

This post has been edited by Ciceronian: 05 January 2011 - 02:15 PM

[nacht]

Love this theory. Dream communication makes perfect sense. I always wondered what drove Tavore to do what she is doing. She is often mentioned as not being special in anyway.
We know Krul likes smart people.

[champ]

would also explain why bottle doesnt hear a single peep out of her when listening at her tent