[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

QuickTidal, on 08 March 2011 - 08:20 PM, said:

Terez, on 03 January 2011 - 08:00 AM, said:

Illuyankas, on 29 December 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

Besides, a hand made of balefire is much cooler. Far less practical, but who cares about practicality when you can pimp slap someone's head into nonexistance?

You can't do just the head, dork. If you balefire someone's toe, the whole body disappears.

Hmmm....then why was it when Rand was Balefiring walls in his fight with Rahvin in whatever book that was, did it vanish portions of walls, big holes if you will...by this rationale shouldn't the whole building disappear?



Scott=Big fan of balefiring someone's head off. AKA the Balefire Headshot

Just...BECAUSE, ALRIGHT?

But seriously, that's a good point, though I think it's probably just how it is; it's like asking someone to explain why the tides go in and out -- you just can't (uhh...what? ) .

Perhaps we're supposed to pretend that the massive loophole in the workings of balefire doesn't exist.

[QuickTidal]

Jade Hog, on 08 March 2011 - 08:49 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 08 March 2011 - 08:20 PM, said:

Terez, on 03 January 2011 - 08:00 AM, said:

Illuyankas, on 29 December 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

Besides, a hand made of balefire is much cooler. Far less practical, but who cares about practicality when you can pimp slap someone's head into nonexistance?

You can't do just the head, dork. If you balefire someone's toe, the whole body disappears.

Hmmm....then why was it when Rand was Balefiring walls in his fight with Rahvin in whatever book that was, did it vanish portions of walls, big holes if you will...by this rationale shouldn't the whole building disappear?



Scott=Big fan of balefiring someone's head off. AKA the Balefire Headshot

Just...BECAUSE, ALRIGHT?

But seriously, that's a good point, though I think it's probably just how it is; it's like asking someone to explain why the tides go in and out -- you just can't (uhh...what? ) .

Perhaps we're supposed to pretend that the massive loophole in the workings of balefire doesn't exist.

Hehe! Understood.

[Terez]

foolio, on 08 March 2011 - 07:58 PM, said:

hi Terez, I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me about the 3 dudes with the sharpened and filed teeth that kill the merchant at the end. Something about them seemed familiar. Has their been mention of aiel that go over to the dark one? I just thought I had read something about them before....

Read this.

QuickTidal, on 08 March 2011 - 08:20 PM, said:

Terez, on 03 January 2011 - 08:00 AM, said:

Illuyankas, on 29 December 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

Besides, a hand made of balefire is much cooler. Far less practical, but who cares about practicality when you can pimp slap someone's head into nonexistance?

You can't do just the head, dork. If you balefire someone's toe, the whole body disappears.

Hmmm....then why was it when Rand was Balefiring walls in his fight with Rahvin in whatever book that was, did it vanish portions of walls, big holes if you will...by this rationale shouldn't the whole building disappear?

Non-living things always react that way to balefire, with the exception of Natrin's Barrow (which Brandon wrote).

This post has been edited by Terez: 08 March 2011 - 10:51 PM

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Terez, on 08 March 2011 - 10:50 PM, said:

foolio, on 08 March 2011 - 07:58 PM, said:

hi Terez, I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me about the 3 dudes with the sharpened and filed teeth that kill the merchant at the end. Something about them seemed familiar. Has their been mention of aiel that go over to the dark one? I just thought I had read something about them before....

Read this.

QuickTidal, on 08 March 2011 - 08:20 PM, said:

Terez, on 03 January 2011 - 08:00 AM, said:

Illuyankas, on 29 December 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

Besides, a hand made of balefire is much cooler. Far less practical, but who cares about practicality when you can pimp slap someone's head into nonexistance?

You can't do just the head, dork. If you balefire someone's toe, the whole body disappears.

Hmmm....then why was it when Rand was Balefiring walls in his fight with Rahvin in whatever book that was, did it vanish portions of walls, big holes if you will...by this rationale shouldn't the whole building disappear?

Non-living things always react that way to balefire, with the exception of Natrin's Barrow (which Brandon wrote).

I just assumed that Rand made balefire badassery so massive that it was massive and badass enough to emcompass the whole of the building. If one thinks about it this way, a) it would no longer be the exception to the rule; and b ) well...IT'S A MASSIVE BIT OF BADASS BALEFIRE -- it could only be more awesome if it came in bacon flavour!

This post has been edited by Jade Hog: 08 March 2011 - 11:51 PM

[Terez]

Oh, we had the same thought, I promise.

Quote

WSB on Twitter 29 September 2010 1:08 pm
Was Rand's super balefire beam palace sized or a narrow beam?
Brandon 11:32 pm
Not palace sized.

I think we drive Brandon a little bit crazy.

[QuickTidal]

Haha, that's awesome Terez.

though I still like the balefire headshot...or toeshot. LOL!

[Illuyankas]

I'd rationalise it as the larger amounts of balefire used, the larger the thread you can burn out of the Pattern, not just the farther back.

Balefire - Not Even Once.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Terez, on 08 March 2011 - 11:58 PM, said:

Oh, we had the same thought, I promise.

Quote

WSB on Twitter 29 September 2010 1:08 pm
Was Rand's super balefire beam palace sized or a narrow beam?
Brandon 11:32 pm
Not palace sized.

I think we drive Brandon a little bit crazy.

What? No! Rand's just become a little less badass.

Now I'm going to have to reimagine that scene as well.

[foolio]

Thanks for the link Terez

[Cobbles]

Terez, on 08 March 2011 - 11:58 PM, said:

Oh, we had the same thought, I promise.

Quote

WSB on Twitter 29 September 2010 1:08 pm
Was Rand's super balefire beam palace sized or a narrow beam?
Brandon 11:32 pm
Not palace sized.

I think we drive Brandon a little bit crazy.

So, how does balefire work? Earlier, when it was used inside a palace we don't see entire columns disappear. It only pokes holes in them (with nice, smooth edges).

Anyway, how far does balefire reach and how fast does it act? Say, you'd direct balefire downward. Obviously, the whole earth wouldn't disappear. So you would create some kind of hole. How deep would it be? Does it depend on how long you apply balefire? Or would it come out the other side in an instant, frying a few poor Seanchan in the process? Could you use it for civil engineering projects such as mine shafts, wells or tunnels through mountains?

I know, I know, I'm a total dork asking those questions.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Cobbles, on 24 March 2011 - 04:05 PM, said:

Terez, on 08 March 2011 - 11:58 PM, said:

Oh, we had the same thought, I promise.

Quote

WSB on Twitter 29 September 2010 1:08 pm
Was Rand's super balefire beam palace sized or a narrow beam?
Brandon 11:32 pm
Not palace sized.

I think we drive Brandon a little bit crazy.

So, how does balefire work? Earlier, when it was used inside a palace we don't see entire columns disappear. It only pokes holes in them (with nice, smooth edges).

Anyway, how far does balefire reach and how fast does it act? Say, you'd direct balefire downward. Obviously, the whole earth wouldn't disappear. So you would create some kind of hole. How deep would it be? Does it depend on how long you apply balefire? Or would it come out the other side in an instant, frying a few poor Seanchan in the process? Could you use it for civil engineering projects such as mine shafts, wells or tunnels through mountains?

I know, I know, I'm a total dork asking those questions.

probably not very effective for sinking mines or wells, any ore or water that gets in the way would cease to exist. and you can't have fine enough control to balefire around the deposits of w/e it is you're looking for. there's probably much more practical weaves for these things. tunnels would be good though.

am i a dork for answering those questions seriously?

[Roldom]

how pissed of would you be if you balefired the ground and the world poped out of existence...

[Illuyankas]

Here's how I handwaved balefire working, as it merely operating on a larger scale the more of it you use. The amount Rand used was enough to effectively consider the entirety of the castle as one single thread in the Pattern, and correspondingly burn that. The less you use the smaller the kinds of threads it effects, down to atoms in nonorganic things and entire people because they're special snowflakes, and the more you use the more the Pattern goes OW FUCK HOLY SHIT WHERE DID MY ENTIRE SUBSTANCE GO THESE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE MOST UNPLEASANT and so on.

This is because a wizard did it.

[Terez]

Sinisdar Toste, on 24 March 2011 - 04:09 PM, said:

Cobbles, on 24 March 2011 - 04:05 PM, said:

Anyway, how far does balefire reach and how fast does it act? Say, you'd direct balefire downward. Obviously, the whole earth wouldn't disappear. So you would create some kind of hole. How deep would it be? Does it depend on how long you apply balefire? Or would it come out the other side in an instant, frying a few poor Seanchan in the process? Could you use it for civil engineering projects such as mine shafts, wells or tunnels through mountains?

I know, I know, I'm a total dork asking those questions.

probably not very effective for sinking mines or wells, any ore or water that gets in the way would cease to exist. and you can't have fine enough control to balefire around the deposits of w/e it is you're looking for. there's probably much more practical weaves for these things. tunnels would be good though.

am i a dork for answering those questions seriously?

We can get pretty freaky about it at Theoryland. Take this thread, for example (I linked to where the crazy conversation in question begins). It starts to get really nutty around posts 70-80 or so.

One of the things I like about WoT is the way RJ tried to make a complex and logical set of rules for his magic system. In a way I can respect the way SE did it because I am a firm believer in the idea that you don't need to tell your readers everything about how your world works, but at the same time, it's more impressive to me to explain it. You come across glitches from time to time, but that's just human error. RJ was pretty damn good at it.

[Cobbles]

Terez, on 25 March 2011 - 09:16 AM, said:

We can get pretty freaky about it at Theoryland. Take this thread, for example (I linked to where the crazy conversation in question begins). It starts to get really nutty around posts 70-80 or so.

Thanks for making me feel less dorky in comparison.
So, after some reading, Theoryland grapples with forces in non-inertial systems?

This post has been edited by Cobbles: 25 March 2011 - 04:09 PM

[QuickTidal]

Quicktidal = Still a big supporter of the balefire head/toeshot.

[Terez]

Cobbles, on 25 March 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

Terez, on 25 March 2011 - 09:16 AM, said:

We can get pretty freaky about it at Theoryland. Take this thread, for example (I linked to where the crazy conversation in question begins). It starts to get really nutty around posts 70-80 or so.

Thanks for making me feel less dorky in comparison.
So, after some reading, Theoryland grapples with forces in non-inertial systems?

We get into discussions like that all the time. That was just a recent one I could call to mind easily.

[McLovin]

Have you tried the what-if-you-balefire-yourself-paradox game yet? Hours of fun to ponder.

[Terez]

Fun balefire quotes:

Quote

Austin Moore on Twitter - 6 January 2011
Who was the Lord of Chaos that Demandred and Taim both mention? There has been tons of debate.
Brandon
Really? I thought that one was obvious. What's the debate about?
Terez
It's Rand. Look in the BWB re: Feast of Fools.
Austin
Why was Demandred and Taim saying, "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" if it was Rand? Sorry just read through series once so far
Terez
Here's a quote for you:
The Feast of Fools
Celebrated in Tammaz (in Arad Doman and the Borderlands) or Saven (everywhere else), the exact day varying according to locality. A day in which all order is deliberately inverted; the high perform lowly tasks (running errands, serving at table, etc.) while the low do no work and give orders to their usual superiors. In many villages and towns the most foolish person is given a title such as the Lord/Lady of Unreason/Misrule/Chaos or the King/Queen of Fools. Not an honor sought, but for that one day everyone has to obey whatever orders, however foolish, are given by the chosen one. (Called the Festival of Unreason in Saldaea; the Festival of Fools in Kandor; Foolday in Baerlon and the Two Rivers.)
Matt Hatch
I've always enjoyed this theory about the Lord of Chaos. It's fun. http://bit.ly/fghYSz
Brandon
That is a good theory for people to be reading.
Terez
YAY. OMG, that theory has been on the rocks for years because of contradicting tour reports.
Terez
Also, your tour quotes were vague enough to allow it but most people didn't see it that way.
Brandon
I didn't say the theory was true, just that you should study it. But I would like to see those tour reports.
Terez
Yes, yes. Also, your vague(ish) wording: http://bit.ly/gbMIP1 And the contradicting RJ reports: http://bit.ly/fsDp5q

Quote

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Vroman's Bookstore, LA 17 November 2009 - Robert Moreau reporting

Q: If someone were to use balefire as a weapon, could they redirect it through a gateway, or would it destroy the weave and keep going?
A: Well, I happen to know that someone asked Robert Jordan this at a signing, and he gave a kind of glib answer that didn't answer anything. So, I'm going to RAFO that, and we'll see. There will be a lot of balefire in the future of these books.

Quote

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Borders Dallas 14 November 2009 - Claireducky reporting

Question: (something regarding the bruises remaining on Min's neck, and if this was a typo)
Brandon: No, that is correct. Rand caused the bruises, so balefiring Semirhage would not make them go away. Balefire only removes paradoxes caused by the direct actions of the one who is balefired. And the bracelets remained after Rand balefired [Semirhage and Elza] because they weren't really part of Semirhage or Elza.
Claire: (comment regarding the thread on Dragonmount where some are arguing that by balefiring Graendal's palace, the compulsion disappeared since there'd never had been a palace in the first place, and others are arguing that it doesn't work that way, objects don't have threads).
Brandon: Everything has a thread, not just souls. Even a stone in a wall has a thread in the Pattern.

Quote

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Sam Weller's Bookstore, Salt Lake City 2 November 2009 - Matt Hatch reporting

Question: In essence, are One Power and True Power balefire the same?
Answer: He answered that the True Power is another source of power, that Aes Sedai were researching another source, like a different form of battery, to power their weaves and that in for balefire, what it does is essentially the same between both Power sources, but that it has different affects on the individual using the Power source (this appeared to be a reference to what True Power does to its user). Matt: Question—Did Robert Jordan leave a power to time comparison, as to how much time is burned back on a thread using balefire? Is there a calculation that says x amount of power will burn back x amount of time on a thread?
Brandon: M.A.F.O – Maria and Find Out. What he did leave, he left a lot of stuff, there is discussion of these things in the notes. I need to look and see if there is an actual equation. He was very focused on strength of the power and things like that. He has probably told you before, I think I've seen a copy of that on notes and things. He did leave scales on exactly how powerful each person is . . .
Maria answers: RAFO. Sorry, but we are doing an encyclopedia, and I have to reserve some things in case we want to put them in there.

Matt: Question—We know that in the Age of Legends that the Forsaken/Chosen, everyone agreed to stop using Balefire because of its effects on the Pattern. Is it unrealistic then to say that a great amount of power could burn someone's thread back a year or six months. Is that an unrealistic thing to say that there is enough power available to either one or multiple people to burn somebody back that far?
Brandon: I see what you are getting at you are trying to figure out if Graendal was killed with a whole lot of balefire would it bring Asmodean back to life (Brandon had heard about this idea, which he mentions later).
Matt: ...like that could ever happen...
Brandon: That's what you are digging for isn't you?
Matt: Let's say, if a Forsaken was responsible for killing another Forsaken.
Brandon: Uh huh
Matt: And said Forsaken was balefired...
Brandon: You are under the assumption...You are trying to figure out who killed Asmodean again. That's what you are trying to do and I'm not going to get caught and let you know...
Matt: It's a legit question...and I'm sure whatever is said at this table stays at this table...
Brandon: I'm sure, the leader of Theoryland and the guy taping this... ~Much laughter from table~
Brandon: Let's divorce it. Rand balefires Rahvin as hardcore as he could and Rand is one of the most powerful people to live and he got us, what have you determined, from the lightning killing Mat until balefire killed Rahvin, I'd guess fifteen minutes.
Matt: Well, he at least got us fifteen minutes. We don't know how far back, we just know up to that moment.
Brandon: Well, we do know because if it had been too much further than that we would have noticed a lot of discrepancies in the Pattern from things he'd done...
Matt: Let's say thirty minutes to an hour, at the most.
Brandon: Alright, thirty minutes to an hour. Okay, let's say the Choedan Kal amplifies his abilities 100 fold…let's say it's a 100 times more powerful than Rand. That's giving us, lets say he got an hour, we've got four days, from the most powerful, one of the most powerful sa'angreal ever created. I think it is unrealistic to assume you can get back a year, but that's not saying it is impossible. I think that if you did that to the Pattern the ramifications would be so dramatic you'd see the Pattern unraveling hardcore at that point, it's like balefiring an entire city. When I first read that guess I just laughed, I'm like guys c'mon lets run the math on this.
Matt: Like I said to Jennifer, it is my job at Theoryland to entertain these ideas.
Brandon: Yes it is, it is your job to entertain them. But in the terms of Mythbusters let's go ahead and call that one "Busted" in the realistic world. I've got to give you at least something, so I'll at least give you that...If it were possible to do things like that, we'd have the Dark One just going and balefiring you know Tam so Rand never gets picked up off the mountain....

Quote

RJ's blog 4 October 2005 "ONE MORE TIME"

For Sodas, when you are balefired, you are dead, dead, dead. It almost seemed redundant to say so.

(Sodas is one of those people who antagonizes me all the time, so this quote amuses me.)

Quote

tarvalon.net Q&A 26 February 2003
Q: If I were to open a gateway in front of me that opened behind me, and I balefired myself, what would happen?

RJ: Young lady, you are entirely too obsessed and have far too much time. You need to get some sort of life. I suggest you go have an intense love affair. Doesn't matter with who, be it man, woman, or German Shepard.

Quote

Crossroads of Twilight Book Tour, Waterford, CT - 17 January 2003

Q: 1. What happens when balefire hits balefire? 2. What happens if you balefire yourself?
RJ: (with a chuckle) You don't want to know! That would be a bit tricky, kind of like performing eye surgery upon yourself.

Quote

Letter to Paul Ward from RJ - March 2000

Paul Ward: (Possible questions: Does balefire affect itself? Can you balefire balefire? If you balefire another person, but then you get balefired, what happens to the person you balefire?) [By the time RJ responded to this guy, he'd forgotten what questions he asked.]
RJ: The balefire weave exists wholly or partly outside time, which removes it from its own effect.

Quote

Brisbane 20 September 1999 - Willum reporting

RJ explained that if person A were to balefire person B, and person C was to balefire person A, if that balefire was strong enough, person B would never have been balefired. This seems like common sense.

Quote

Brisbane 20 September 1999 - Joel Gilmore reporting

Ok, first and foremost we have an answer to the balefire-balefire paradox. If A balefires B, then C balefires A, B WILL come back alive again. I explored this quite thoroughly with him, getting him to repeat himself more than once. It is definite. It is over.

Quote

Australia Interview - August 1999

Q: Balefire is one of the most confusing things in the book, for me. I find the fine aspects of it, the whole threading together of the things that work in it... Could you be a little more elaborate on that?
RJ: All right. The cosmography we're looking at here, is not the cosmography of here and now. The Wheel of Time is in its way a spinning wheel. The fabric of reality is woven by the threads. Those threads are the lines that are formed by people passing through time. Each person has a thread. The thread has its sole dimension in time, its life is in time. Those are the threads that are used to weave the fabric of reality. When balefire strikes a person, a thread here, it doesn't simply stop the thread there. The thread burns backwards a little bit, like you just took a thread and put a match to it and it burns up a little bit before it goes out. It depends on how hot the flame is how far it's going to burn back and what the material is opposed to. It burns up a little bit, it doesn't just catch fire on the end and go out. So that person that was hit here is burned out of the pattern back to here. What that person did between here and here was no longer done. Other people remember seeing it. They may remember the supposed effects of it but what that person did wasn't done. It didn't happen, it's not real. Now that's a little bit of a shiver on the fabric of reality as it is. The reason that there was an unofficial agreement in the War of the Shadow to not use balefire any more, to stop using it, was simply that several cities were destroyed in that way. Hundreds of thousands of threads were burnt out from the pattern in one go and the fabric of reality began to unravel. And even the guys going for the Dark One knew that there's not a whole lot of point to winning if winning means there's nothing there to rule, nothing there to win. If you burnt out the stakes, forget it. Have I made it a little clearer I hope?
Q: I was really referring to the scene where the wall falls on them and Rand uses balefire and they all come back to life. There's a prophecy about Mat how he was going to die and I'm not sure whether that incident is where he dies or not.
RJ: Well you're not supposed to be, are you! Once, Mat was hanging by his neck and Rand wasn't sure whether he caught a heartbeat or not. You see, the thing is Mat doesn't know. Mat thinks he's got a little ace in the hole but maybe he hasn't. Maybe he doesn't have that ace in the hole that he has a death to give yet, and still live, the way he thinks. Maybe. There's an acronym they use on the net, RAFO. Read and find out.

Quote

Letter to Thomas Howard - 14 March 1997

Q: What the hell is up with balefire (in regards to Nynaeve and the boat)? The main issue with this was whether or not balefire burned inanimate objects back through time in addition to living creatures.
RJ: Yes it does.

Quote

A Crown of Swords book tour 9 October 1996, Dunwoody, GA - Erica Sadun reporting

Q: What happens when two people balefire each other simultaneously?
RJ: A lot of confusion.

Q: Why doesn't somebody just balefire the Dark One?
RJ: The quantity necessary would destroy the world.

Quote

Letter to Tom McCormick from RJ - November/December 1993

Tom McCormick: Please find out if Lews Therin balefired himself in the prologue in The Eye of the World, or if he just drew too much of the One Power. If it isn't critical to the continuing plot, I'm sure he'll say.
RJ: Lews Therin did not use balefire on himself; he simply drew as much of the One Power as he could, then kept on pulling it in.