[Mulch]

The lady, the great ravens, and the crusty guy in the tent... are there any other bits of the Crippled God kicking about??

Also he's got the part of the lady, is he going to reabsorb crone and her buddies at some point?

[Khellendros]

I'm still uncertain as to whether the Lady was a part of the Crippled God. I know she says it is flesh of her flesh, but she could have been making it up to convince that first Lord Protector to commit himself to her. The form she appears in to him at the beginning of the book - fish-scaled and such, suggests she came from the sea originally. Which makes sense, seeing as the Stormriders are her long-time enemy, and they also come from the sea. It seems to me that she could have come across some of the pieces of the Crippled God which fell into the sea, and used their power to provide a barrier to the Stormriders on Korel, as well as build up her own power.

[D'rek]

Alternatively, it could simply be that The Lady's pieces are not the CG's pieces but he's going to use one anyways! Nevertheless, I do like the similarity of The Lady and the Great Ravens...

[Aptorian]

Don't forget the waddling mutant baby monster from Ivanr's Elder dream.

[Abyss]

This notion of stray chunks of the CG taking on a life of their own is certainly supported by the existance of the Great Ravens. The Korelri we see at the beginning already worship a 'Lady' so why wouldn't the CG chunks take that form to get cooperation?

[polishgenius]

If I recall correctly, the Ravens weren't parts of the CG but maggots that came from his flesh, no?

[tiam]

yeh maggots from the flesh but their still repositories of the CG power from the flesh they ate as maggots (if thats how it works). Similar to Feather Witch eating the errants eye and gaining power tht way i suppose

[Quint]

the lady is a stray chunk of TCG... end of

[Traveller]

Abyss, on 11 December 2010 - 07:21 AM, said:

This notion of stray chunks of the CG taking on a life of their own is certainly supported by the existance of the Great Ravens. The Korelri we see at the beginning already worship a 'Lady' so why wouldn't the CG chunks take that form to get cooperation?

I've just been reading through the Stonewielder threads now I've finished it ( I didn't want any RotCG- type spoilers).

My thoughts on the 'Lady' are that she was, originally, a separate entity from the Crippled God - but that she became stronger as she was able to tap into the CG's power. Like all the others that have used the CG's power, she probably became corrupted and more prone to his influence as she drew on it.

So, the Lady was already there, maybe a minor ascendant, with a handful of believers. The CG's presence gave her a major power boost; her priority was finding a way to protect them.

I think this is more likely than the Lady being a sentient, separate part of the CG, as we have seen the CG on different continents before, but he/it is essentially the same being. The Great Ravens came from maggots within his flesh - essentially separate beings that travelled and Fell with him - not an integral part of him though.

The CG's 'heart' that landed in Kolanse is another such source of power that gets used by others - the blurb from the CG, for example...

'Awaiting Tavore and her allies are the Forkrul Assail, the final arbiters of humanity. Drawing upon an alien power terrible in its magnitude, they seek to cleanse the world, to annihilate every human, every civilization, in order to begin anew.'

So it looks like the FA are using the CG to their own ends, too (And that was where his heart landed, iirc.)

I think this is what the Lady is doing. She probably just started using the CG's power, and became corrupted through it's use and it's taint. The Stormriders were well aware of the CG's landing ( I still think it's no coincidence that there are 3 craters/rings in a line across the map, and 3 fallen chunks) so she used the local believers to build the Wall.

The new power also gave her the ability to manifest; although by the looks of it she was using a corpse from the sea at the beginning- probably because it was near by. The purpose of the magic deadening was used to stop any mages from locating the CG's parts - they would be like beacons to mages, and by jumping on any magic user the way she did, she also stopped anyone from daring to use Warrens, which would have made it possible to locate the CG parts, and travel to them. This means that the Wall and the forts had to be physically attacked.

The true identity of the Lady may yet be revealed, anyway, sort of like the Whirlwind Goddess was - a relatively minor character who got caught up with the CG, and ultimately taken over or consumed by it.

The fact that the Lady sets the Wall up as an 'alter' to collect blood kind of hints at her being Elder, as blood gathering/sacrifice is a trait of the elder gods.

This post has been edited by First Tiger: 20 January 2011 - 05:45 PM

[Luzburg]

I don't have the exact quote but the sea-folk did tell the Crimson Guardsmen that they knew her of old as the Destroyer. This does points to her being an angry old sea spirit.

[Hetan]

First Tiger, on 20 January 2011 - 01:21 PM, said:

The fact that the Lady sets the Wall up as an 'alter' to collect blood kind of hints at her being Elder, as blood gathering/sacrifice is a trait of the elder gods.

And this is how I felt of her too - not necessarily Elder per se, but it made me think of that comment to Mael in DoD regarding his daughters running wild. Seemed far more likely to me for it to be one of them to be honest.

[MTS]

Would they be Elder though? I wouldn't have thought so, as Sechul 'birthed' (for lack of a better word) Oponn and as far as I know they aren't Elder.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

MTS, on 01 February 2011 - 11:19 PM, said:

Would they be Elder though? I wouldn't have thought so, as Sechul 'birthed' (for lack of a better word) Oponn and as far as I know they aren't Elder.

Can't be sure, but I think Setch more created Oponn than birthed them. He does call them 'his finest toss' or something similar.

Also, Lady Envy is basically considered an Elder God because of her lineage (and her sorcery is always described as Elder). Makes sense that any children of Mael would be given similar stature.

[MTS]

Birthed, created, you know what I meant.

We have no evidence that Envy or Spite receive their power from blood though (well, Spite got her Eleint power from blood, but that's different).

This post has been edited by MTS: 02 February 2011 - 12:01 AM

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

MTS, on 02 February 2011 - 12:00 AM, said:

Birthed, created, you know what I meant.

We have no evidence that Envy or Spite receive their power from blood though (well, Spite got her Eleint power from blood, but that's different).

It seems like you're defining Elder only as someone who accepts/gains power from blood sacrifice? I just meant in terms of genealogy.

[MTS]

Well sure, but the reference to Elders was in terms of the Lady, who explicitly said she relied on blood sacrifice to forestall the Riders.

[Luzburg]

MTS, on 02 February 2011 - 01:28 AM, said:

Well sure, but the reference to Elders was in terms of the Lady, who explicitly said she relied on blood sacrifice to forestall the Riders.

What if the blood was for supercharging the CG pieces for her own use?

[snake0026]

Khellendros, on 10 December 2010 - 01:54 PM, said:

I'm still uncertain as to whether the Lady was a part of the Crippled God. I know she says it is flesh of her flesh, but she could have been making it up to convince that first Lord Protector to commit himself to her. The form she appears in to him at the beginning of the book - fish-scaled and such, suggests she came from the sea originally. Which makes sense, seeing as the Stormriders are her long-time enemy, and they also come from the sea. It seems to me that she could have come across some of the pieces of the Crippled God which fell into the sea, and used their power to provide a barrier to the Stormriders on Korel, as well as build up her own power.

Luzburg, on 01 February 2011 - 03:29 PM, said:

I don't have the exact quote but the sea-folk did tell the Crimson Guardsmen that they knew her of old as the Destroyer. This does points to her being an angry old sea spirit.

Was the Lady ever actually explicitly associated with the sea though?

Yes the sea-folk know of her as the Destroyer, but I don't think that really means much, as such a title/name has no inherent relationship to the sea, and, while I can't quite recall the backstory of the sea-folk off the top of my head, were they not simply the indigenous peoples of Korel (originally fishermen perhaps, but still people of the land) forced into their current lifestyle by virtue of the invading Korel peoples conquering their land?

Also, in the prologue, the only description of her that I can find that would suggest a possible connection with the sea is, "Yet its flesh was repulsive: a pale dead fish, mottled, pocked by rotting open sores. The fetor almost made Temal faint." (paperback, pg 20).

I wasn't initially sure what to make of that descriptor, however, my interpretation was ultimately that Temal was simply describing her skin as being as pale as a dead fish, rather than her skin actually being scaled and otherwise fishey, although even were the latter case correct, I still think it is too little to go on to actually infer any relationship between her and the sea.

Also, even the Stormriders, who clearly do reside under the ocean, are not described as being fish-scaled beneath their armour, but rather are akin to the Tiste Liosan, presumably with actual skin and whatnot. Thus, were this correct, that would make the Lady of some sentient acquatic race that has previously been entirely unmentioned and unseen, with not a single hint of their existence, a notion I find hard to believe at this point (unless of course her people were eradicated by the Stormriders, something which is never hinted at) . Rather, I think it much more plausible that the Lady was either a Thel Akai possessed (and corrupted) to her fetid state by the CG, or, more likely, she is simply a manifestation of the three pieces of his flesh in Korel (at which point, he would perhaps be free to choose the image that he assumed).

[Salt-Man Z]

snake0026, on 14 February 2011 - 09:14 AM, said:

Also, even the Stormriders, who clearly do reside under the ocean, are not described as being fish-scaled beneath their armour, but rather are akin to the Tiste Liosan, presumably with actual skin and whatnot.

At the end of NoK, when the boy and girl find the Rider washed up on shore, the boy says, "It's scaled. It's a fish."

[snake0026]

Was that the same Rider that asks why we keep killing them?

I clearly need a NoK reread it seems...