Malazan Empire: Pros, Cons, and Questions - Malazan Empire

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#21 User is offline   Yellow 

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:12 PM

So I guess my main question after reading this is the source of the Crimson Guard's power/vow. Ussu was about to say it, then squish. That sort of thing should be answered in the same book, not some possible future book in x years. Grr.

Unless it was made clear somewhere else and I completely missed it.

I'm disappointed that we never really got to know the Stormriders or their motives.
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#22 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:19 PM

View PostJenisapt Rul, on 12 December 2010 - 07:03 PM, said:

... Most likely Burn made the sword for the very purpose of destroying the Wall before she fell asleep.
Again, it would have been really nice if Esslemont would have devoted some more pages to the sword, the wall and why the Stormriders were attacking it.


And if Burn made the sword, why the Riders had it to pass to Greymane...


View Posttiam, on 22 December 2010 - 04:37 PM, said:

In regards to Ipshank I think it doesnt need to be over analysed. In an entire continent more or less gripped in religiouis fervour it would only take Ipshank to start preaching belief in oneself rather than the lady to make him revolutionary. That part of the book I liked, in the way that ICE didnt over sell the self belief aspct of Ipshanks preaching


Agreed. this was a nice touch, and also shows that Ipshank wasn't powered'up from anything other than his own inner badass, unless those Fener tats had some residual mojo, but i doubt it...

View PostYellow, on 22 December 2010 - 07:12 PM, said:

So I guess my main question after reading this is the source of the Crimson Guard's power/vow. Ussu was about to say it, then squish. ...


The Vow is a major plotline running thru ICE's books. No surprise that we didn't get an answer to that just yet.
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#23 User is offline   Yellow 

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 07:52 AM

That's just aggravating. Pretty disappointed with the disjointed writing throughout this book. At least RotCG had pay-off.

I've pretty much reached the end of my tether with Malazan. Erikson's final book is out soon and I no longer feel that it will have any kind of closure whatsoever. Ten books that have just petered out so that his less talented mate can have something to write about in his own ten book series.

The Andii trilogy can go fuck itself.
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#24 User is offline   Veilside 

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 01:04 PM

View PostYellow, on 23 December 2010 - 07:52 AM, said:

That's just aggravating. Pretty disappointed with the disjointed writing throughout this book. At least RotCG had pay-off.

I've pretty much reached the end of my tether with Malazan. Erikson's final book is out soon and I no longer feel that it will have any kind of closure whatsoever. Ten books that have just petered out so that his less talented mate can have something to write about in his own ten book series.

The Andii trilogy can go fuck itself.


If everything was answered in the books, they'd be ten times the size they already are.
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#25 User is offline   Yellow 

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 05:54 PM

Stonewielder could be half the size it is and answer twice as many of the questions it poses.
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#26 User is offline   Veilside 

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 09:45 PM

View PostYellow, on 23 December 2010 - 05:54 PM, said:

Stonewielder could be half the size it is and answer twice as many of the questions it poses.


And be a much less entertaining read for it.
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#27 User is offline   tiam 

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 12:14 AM

Im with Veilside on this but I completely understand your frustration, I dont think that SE is deliberately leaving things out to give ICE something to write. It much easier for ICE to do it rather than SE having to fit in an Assail novel in. Theres no real way he could have done it. The first 5 books are world building with BH being the bridge between the earlier an latter half of the series. SE is focused on the CG and it would have to be quite a contrived set of circumstances (and be a disappointment) if Assail was a Pannion Domin style of plot.

As for the CGRD no we do not have any set resolution but from what I can tell it is Imass based. Others on the site have mentioned this as well and AFAIK it for these main reasons (anyone wants to add any I havent read Return in a while)

Both groups have sworn a vow against an enemy to keep them alive
both have excessive endurance and while avowed can have their physical manifestation killed they live on as spirits, similar in a way to the way Imass are tied to their mortal flesh
They have both performed a 'ritual' of some distinction to gain these powers.
The term 'diaspora' is used only in reference to the CGRD and the Imass (Not used for the Imass anymore but in GOTM Tool clearly states the 'diaspora was coming to an end' or something like that in later books.
The Imass wont fight the CGRD (circumstantial and I read that somewhere on the board so am unsure of its validity)
Whoever joins the vow seem to benefit from it i.e. Corlo and Ogilvie ( that guy who Kyle follolws up the stairs in ROTCG) both have stamina and dont look as old as they should. Most noticeable in those first recruited to the Guard other than the Avowed.

Alot of that is speculation mind and im certain ive missed points out, but it seems more than plausible after Ussu's speech along the lines of 'you have no idea what you have tapped into' that the Guards vow may have deliberately/accidentally tapped into the Ritual or they may have used the same method for a smaler scale ritual.

This is just an attempt and im sure if you search youll find some sort of board consensus on the matter. I will say though do not lose faith in Erikson atleast until youve read the CG
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#28 User is offline   Yellow 

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 01:05 PM

View PostVeilside, on 23 December 2010 - 09:45 PM, said:

View PostYellow, on 23 December 2010 - 05:54 PM, said:

Stonewielder could be half the size it is and answer twice as many of the questions it poses.


And be a much less entertaining read for it.


Or be more entertaining.

There were two threads which I found very dull (Bakune and Ivanr) and one which didn't seem to even fit in the rest of the story and had no resolution (Kiska). I would have enjoyed the book more if these were removed. Put the Kiska one in a different book where more of that story can be told. This book was long for the sake of long.
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#29 User is offline   Sinisdar Toste 

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 09:40 PM

View PostYellow, on 24 December 2010 - 01:05 PM, said:

View PostVeilside, on 23 December 2010 - 09:45 PM, said:

View PostYellow, on 23 December 2010 - 05:54 PM, said:

Stonewielder could be half the size it is and answer twice as many of the questions it poses.


And be a much less entertaining read for it.


Or be more entertaining.

There were two threads which I found very dull (Bakune and Ivanr) and one which didn't seem to even fit in the rest of the story and had no resolution (Kiska). I would have enjoyed the book more if these were removed. Put the Kiska one in a different book where more of that story can be told. This book was long for the sake of long.


this book was the shortest malazan offering other than NoK...
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#30 User is offline   Slow Ben 

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 05:26 AM

No way was this book too long. I dont disagree that some things were a little boring, but ICE did a pretty darn good job of introducing an entire continent and peoples into a book without it seeming rushed or pushed.

Other things-


Manask was flat out amazing. Just hilarious. He stole every chapter he was in, except for the one where he was unconscious through most of it.

Why, oh why did they have Bars yell SKINNERRRRRRRRRR! They had to have realizd what the reaction would be. Did they think it would be funny or just not care?

Differing from some i really enjoyed Suths POV's. After the first two i thought we had another Kyle on our hands, but instead he matured in front of us from a plainsman joining the army to prove how tough he was and to test himself into a Malazan soldier. Good stuff.

Theres about 10 more, but they've already been talked to death.
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Posted 25 December 2010 - 05:35 AM

One thing that threw me off regarding Ipshank - when he first landed and took in the girl as his disciple, I was almost sure he was a priest of the Crippled God. The whole "I am my own man" thing I did not see coming. Or was that another priest that I'm mixing up with Ipshank?
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#32 User is offline   Slow Ben 

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 06:42 AM

Yeah, I thought that too. Just the way his internal monologue was working it sounded like he was a follower of the CG.
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#33 User is offline   Yellow 

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 12:01 PM

So now that Skinner's the King in Chains and he's out collecting parts of the CG (presumably to secure his power), does that mean that Erikson's next book will not really resolve the CG storyline and things will carry on pretty much as they are, or does it mean that all this CG stuff ICE is writing about is too little too late?

I'm not looking to cause an argument, I really want to hear people's thoughts. I personally believe the ending of tCG will not have any real closure, but I've said that before so I won't go into it.
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#34 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 11:07 AM

Well, I personally wouldn't be surprised if Skinner made an appearance in TCG. He is the King in Chains afterall and the last book of the MBotF obviously deals with ethe House of Chains and the Crippled God.
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#35 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 11:07 AM

Well, I personally wouldn't be surprised if Skinner made an appearance in TCG. He is the King in Chains afterall and the last book of the MBotF obviously deals with ethe House of Chains and the Crippled God.
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#36 User is offline   Sinisdar Toste 

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 08:58 AM

View PostBauchelain the Evil, on 26 December 2010 - 11:07 AM, said:

Well, I personally wouldn't be surprised if Skinner made an appearance in TCG. He is the King in Chains afterall and the last book of the MBotF obviously deals with ethe House of Chains and the Crippled God.

agreed. where would he be going with one of the largest chunks of the CG, except to the next largest chunk?

i fully expect to see leoman, kiska, skinner and the disavowed and maybe even iron bars in tCG.
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#37 User is offline   Yellow 

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:15 AM

If they're not in there, would the continuity still make sense?

Are there many people who read Erikson but haven't heard about ICE, do you think? The reason I ask is that I'm sure there are lots of people who read the books but don't go on the web to find out more (after all, his sales would be pretty poor if it were just the people on this forum, right?). Do people realise that there's another author writing in this series? If not, will they get confused if Skinner turns up and people find out that he's the King in Chains? I'd be wondering where I missed that.

They would also be under the impression that Laseen is still the Empress.
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#38 User is offline   Skywalker 

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 03:49 PM

View PostYellow, on 27 December 2010 - 09:15 AM, said:

If they're not in there, would the continuity still make sense?

Are there many people who read Erikson but haven't heard about ICE, do you think? The reason I ask is that I'm sure there are lots of people who read the books but don't go on the web to find out more (after all, his sales would be pretty poor if it were just the people on this forum, right?). Do people realise that there's another author writing in this series? If not, will they get confused if Skinner turns up and people find out that he's the King in Chains? I'd be wondering where I missed that.

They would also be under the impression that Laseen is still the Empress.


That was a very thought-provoking post, Yellow... I for one would consider my understanding of the "main series" incomplete without ICE's novels (NoK, and SW to a lesser extent than RotCG). But yes, if Skinner shows up in tCG, that makes SW a more integral part of the skein

Those folks who read only SE's work but not ICE's are missing quite a bit!
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#39 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 05:50 PM

View PostYellow, on 27 December 2010 - 09:15 AM, said:

If they're not in there, would the continuity still make sense?

Are there many people who read Erikson but haven't heard about ICE, do you think? The reason I ask is that I'm sure there are lots of people who read the books but don't go on the web to find out more (after all, his sales would be pretty poor if it were just the people on this forum, right?). Do people realise that there's another author writing in this series? If not, will they get confused if Skinner turns up and people find out that he's the King in Chains? I'd be wondering where I missed that.

They would also be under the impression that Laseen is still the Empress.


No they wouldn't it's spelled quite clear in DoD by the EGs that Mallick Rel became Emperor. At that point, those who haven't yet read RotCG would probably go and grab a copy to see how it happened...or just spoil themselves in this forums.
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#40 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 06:08 PM

View PostBauchelain the Evil, on 27 December 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:

View PostYellow, on 27 December 2010 - 09:15 AM, said:

If they're not in there, would the continuity still make sense?

Are there many people who read Erikson but haven't heard about ICE, do you think? The reason I ask is that I'm sure there are lots of people who read the books but don't go on the web to find out more (after all, his sales would be pretty poor if it were just the people on this forum, right?). Do people realise that there's another author writing in this series? If not, will they get confused if Skinner turns up and people find out that he's the King in Chains? I'd be wondering where I missed that.

They would also be under the impression that Laseen is still the Empress.


No they wouldn't it's spelled quite clear in DoD by the EGs that Mallick Rel became Emperor. At that point, those who haven't yet read RotCG would probably go and grab a copy to see how it happened...or just spoil themselves in this forums.

Since there's a mention of the King in Chains in Tiserra's reading in TTH, I expect we may come to see Skinner in the Darujhistan novel yet. He didn't have much trouble getting from Quon Tali to Korel, nor did Kallor from Genabackis to Jacurucku, a jaunt off to Darujhistan shouldn't be beyond him. Nevertheless, it might be that we will hear of how he became to be King in TCG, if the Second catches up to him or he and the Disavowed defend the TCG, which is altogether possible. It may come with the explanation of his armour, and Ardata's supposed involvement there. The feud was introduced in book six, elaborated on in book eight, perhaps a resolution in book ten? :)
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