[Terez]

QuickTidal, on 28 November 2010 - 08:59 PM, said:

Egwene and the war vote. Yeah, that was cool. Super cool even.

I particularly liked the Hall vs the Andorans on the ice. Those particular nobles will reappear as Elayne works to gain the Lion Throne. And just to warn you, that is one of those Plotlines of Forever.

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Sheriam....so Black Ajah....just sayin. Also, call me dumb but I didn't see that one coming.

The fandom generally saw that coming from TDR with the Gray Man incident, and Sheriam's comments about the 13x13 turning a person to the Shadow, to the point that by the time her beatings started, we were tired of it, because yet again, even the beatings didn't constitute proof. Just more inconclusive evidence.

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Rand. Insanity. Callandor. Crazyness. Pretty cool in an overboard kinda way. Still, good, not great.

The overboard is my favorite part.

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Rand. Okay sir, you are without a doubt a HUGE mega dick at this point in the series and are behaving like a spoiled petulant child. You deserved to have your thankless ass beaten down by the Maidens.

There are some reasons for this. Part of it is taint madness. Part of it is something that you already have clues for, but won't really understand until book 11 or 12. Personally, I would have been incredibly bored if Rand was yet another perfect savior, which is why I LOVE his plotline from...oh, about book 4 or 5 to ... well, the end probably. We still don't really know what's going on in his head. It's great.

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The ending is ho-hum....except for Faile getting taken. Cause I hate Faile anyways. Although I spose this means she'll need to be rescued at some point...after which she'll bitch at Perrin for taking too long to do it or something. Cause that's the kind of useless girl she is. Sigh.

lol. No comment.

[QuickTidal]

Terez, on 28 November 2010 - 09:12 PM, said:

Quote

Rand. Okay sir, you are without a doubt a HUGE mega dick at this point in the series and are behaving like a spoiled petulant child. You deserved to have your thankless ass beaten down by the Maidens.

There are some reasons for this. Part of it is taint madness. Part of it is something that you already have clues for, but won't really understand until book 11 or 12. Personally, I would have been incredibly bored if Rand was yet another perfect savior, which is why I LOVE his plotline from...oh, about book 4 or 5 to ... well, the end probably. We still don't really know what's going on in his head. It's great.

Oh don't get me wrong. I like also like that Rand is not your typical fantasy patriot superman saviour...and I'd probably be a bit insane too treating people poorly if I had to deal with these things....I think at this point he is being unrepentant about it and it's really off-kilter and at odds with who he started out as and who he needs to eventually be. I mean I realize he has to snap to take on the Last Battle without reservations and I realize that Jordan was driving him there, but it just seemed over-the-top here...maybe i was just more annoyed by things in this book than I was impressed. Put it this way, having him be so nasty to everyone is almost becoming status-quo and doesn't that risk THAT idea becoming boring? I was more impressed before when he straddled the line between "I am trying to be a nice guy even while I am going insane" and "Screw all of you, I hate all this!"...and not just sat firmly on the latter side of things.

BTW, Terez....your input about this series is always kind and informative and I am endlessly appreciative of that. So thanks my dear!

Also, i am still a HUGE fan of this series even after the debacle that was TPOD for me....as I loved most of the first 7 books outright.

Sigh. Of course I am a glutton for the series now and I will be starting WINTERS HEART later tonight.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 28 November 2010 - 09:36 PM

[Terez]

QuickTidal, on 28 November 2010 - 09:34 PM, said:

Terez, on 28 November 2010 - 09:12 PM, said:

Quote

Rand. Okay sir, you are without a doubt a HUGE mega dick at this point in the series and are behaving like a spoiled petulant child. You deserved to have your thankless ass beaten down by the Maidens.

There are some reasons for this. Part of it is taint madness. Part of it is something that you already have clues for, but won't really understand until book 11 or 12. Personally, I would have been incredibly bored if Rand was yet another perfect savior, which is why I LOVE his plotline from...oh, about book 4 or 5 to ... well, the end probably. We still don't really know what's going on in his head. It's great.

Oh don't get me wrong. I like also like that Rand is not your typical fantasy patriot superman saviour...and I'd probably be a bit insane too treating people poorly if I had to deal with these things....I think at this point he is being unrepentant about it and it's really off-kilter and at odds with who he started out as and who he needs to eventually be. I mean I realize he has to snap to take on the Last Battle without reservations and I realize that Jordan was driving him there, but it just seemed over-the-top here.

I know what you mean, but trust me, there is a reason for it, and I found it to be a pretty interesting reason when it became clear.

Quote

Put it this way, having him be so nasty to everyone is almost becoming status-quo and doesn't that risk THAT idea becoming boring?

I don't think so, because it's a complicated situation. To me it was always interesting - you might say he hits rock bottom in TPOD - again, there is a reason - but it doesn't continue on in the same way really. Part of Rand senses that something is horribly wrong with him, and he essentially goes into hiding not far in the future, and we don't see much of him. We're just left to wonder what the hell is going on in his head until book 11 or so.

A good question to ask at this point - what do you think about the whole Lews Therin phenomenon? Also, did you notice this?

RJ said:

TITLE - The Path of Daggers
CHAPTER: 21 - Answering the Summons

You must kill him before he kills you, Lews Therin giggled. They will, you know. Dead men can’t betray anyone. The voice in Rand’s head turned wondering. But sometimes they don’t die. Am I dead? Are you?

Rand pushed the words down to a fly’s buzzing, just on the edge of notice. Since his reappearance inside Rand’s head, Lews Therin seldom went silent unless forced. The man seemed madder than ever most of the time, and usually angrier as well. Stronger sometimes, too. That voice invaded Rand’s dreams, and when he saw himself in a dream, it was not always himself at all that he saw. It was not always Lews Therin, either, the face he had come to recognize as Lews Therin’s. Sometimes it was blurred, yet vaguely familiar, and Lews Therin seemed startled by it, too. That was an indication how far the man’s madness went. Or maybe his own.

Any thoughts? There are some more hints in the next book as to what the hell is going on here.

Quote

BTW, Terez....your input about this series is always kind and informative and I am endlessly appreciative of that. So thanks my dear!

It is my pleasure, of course.

[QuickTidal]

Terez, on 28 November 2010 - 09:47 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 28 November 2010 - 09:34 PM, said:

Terez, on 28 November 2010 - 09:12 PM, said:

Quote

Rand. Okay sir, you are without a doubt a HUGE mega dick at this point in the series and are behaving like a spoiled petulant child. You deserved to have your thankless ass beaten down by the Maidens.

There are some reasons for this. Part of it is taint madness. Part of it is something that you already have clues for, but won't really understand until book 11 or 12. Personally, I would have been incredibly bored if Rand was yet another perfect savior, which is why I LOVE his plotline from...oh, about book 4 or 5 to ... well, the end probably. We still don't really know what's going on in his head. It's great.

Oh don't get me wrong. I like also like that Rand is not your typical fantasy patriot superman saviour...and I'd probably be a bit insane too treating people poorly if I had to deal with these things....I think at this point he is being unrepentant about it and it's really off-kilter and at odds with who he started out as and who he needs to eventually be. I mean I realize he has to snap to take on the Last Battle without reservations and I realize that Jordan was driving him there, but it just seemed over-the-top here.

I know what you mean, but trust me, there is a reason for it, and I found it to be a pretty interesting reason when it became clear.

Quote

Put it this way, having him be so nasty to everyone is almost becoming status-quo and doesn't that risk THAT idea becoming boring?

I don't think so, because it's a complicated situation. To me it was always interesting - you might say he hits rock bottom in TPOD - again, there is a reason - but it doesn't continue on in the same way really. Part of Rand senses that something is horribly wrong with him, and he essentially goes into hiding not far in the future, and we don't see much of him. We're just left to wonder what the hell is going on in his head until book 11 or so.

A good question to ask at this point - what do you think about the whole Lews Therin phenomenon? Also, did you notice this?

RJ said:

TITLE - The Path of Daggers
CHAPTER: 21 - Answering the Summons

You must kill him before he kills you, Lews Therin giggled. They will, you know. Dead men can’t betray anyone. The voice in Rand’s head turned wondering. But sometimes they don’t die. Am I dead? Are you?

Rand pushed the words down to a fly’s buzzing, just on the edge of notice. Since his reappearance inside Rand’s head, Lews Therin seldom went silent unless forced. The man seemed madder than ever most of the time, and usually angrier as well. Stronger sometimes, too. That voice invaded Rand’s dreams, and when he saw himself in a dream, it was not always himself at all that he saw. It was not always Lews Therin, either, the face he had come to recognize as Lews Therin’s. Sometimes it was blurred, yet vaguely familiar, and Lews Therin seemed startled by it, too. That was an indication how far the man’s madness went. Or maybe his own.

Any thoughts? There are some more hints in the next book as to what the hell is going on here.

Quote

BTW, Terez....your input about this series is always kind and informative and I am endlessly appreciative of that. So thanks my dear!

It is my pleasure, of course.

Oh, yeah, a third person in Rands head. Yeah. I have an idea who I think it might be of course...but I don't want to come off beetle-headed to those who knows for realz who or what it is.

[Morgoth]

Now Winters Heart is your next book, yeah? That finally killed the series for me I must admit (never could get myself to start CoT which supposedly is even more atrocious). I'd be interested in your take on the book once you've gotten through.

[Terez]

QuickTidal, on 28 November 2010 - 10:13 PM, said:

Oh, yeah, a third person in Rands head. Yeah. I have an idea who I think it might be of course...but I don't want to come off beetle-headed to those who knows for realz who or what it is.

1. The most popular theory on this by far was wrong.
2. No one expects a first-reader to figure out mysteries that most of us didn't get after years of debate.

[End of Disc One]

Good luck with Winter's Heart. I'd say it's slightly better than TPoD, but still far behind the other previous books. The payoff is there, though.

[Terez]

End of Disc One, on 28 November 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:

Good luck with Winter's Heart. I'd say it's slightly better than TPoD, but still far behind the other previous books. The payoff is there, though.

Right, that is my advice for WH. The ending is the only real climactic finish of 8-10. The events leading up to it are interesting, but not so action-packed - really it's sort of more along the lines of TPOD, except that there is some Mat in the mix. Rand is still crazy, but not as much of a fuck-up as he was in TPOD. Partly because some determined women save him from fucking up royally.

[Morgoth]

Interesting is going a little far. Perin's storyline especially deserves to be ranked among the top of most pointless drivel in epic fantasy in my opinion, and if anything that was the reason Winter's Heart was the very last straw for me.

IT's a shame though, I really did enjoy the first five or so books, and perhaps I'll end up reading a summary of CoT and KoD for then to read the last 3.

[QuickTidal]

Terez, on 28 November 2010 - 10:26 PM, said:

End of Disc One, on 28 November 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:

Good luck with Winter's Heart. I'd say it's slightly better than TPoD, but still far behind the other previous books. The payoff is there, though.

Right, that is my advice for WH. The ending is the only real climactic finish of 8-10. The events leading up to it are interesting, but not so action-packed - really it's sort of more along the lines of TPOD, except that there is some Mat in the mix. Rand is still crazy, but not as much of a fuck-up as he was in TPOD. Partly because some determined women save him from fucking up royally.

Indeed. I will enter this one with trepidation...and hope that it makes a better show than TPOD.

Hey, a guy can hope right?

[HoosierDaddy]

The end of WH made up for everything I didn't like in PoD and WH.

[Terez]

Morgoth, on 28 November 2010 - 10:34 PM, said:

Interesting is going a little far. Perin's storyline especially deserves to be ranked among the top of most pointless drivel in epic fantasy in my opinion, and if anything that was the reason Winter's Heart was the very last straw for me.

Again, Perrin's plotline in 9-11 is more about shaping him into the person he needs to be for the Last Battle than anything else. And though it takes him a frustratingly long time to accomplish his goal, there are some very good things that come of it in the end. I enjoyed it, but I'm not so much an action-oriented reader as some people.

[QuickTidal]

Started WINTERS HEART....first bit of prologue.

I do like Seaine. I really do. She's so earnest!

[Terez]

QuickTidal, on 29 November 2010 - 12:58 AM, said:

Started WINTERS HEART....first bit of prologue.

I do like Seaine. I really do. She's so earnest!

I like her too, and Pevara, and all of the Black Ajah hunters. They rock. They are sort of a running theme in the prologues for the next few books. Oh, and they are one of my favorite things about the end of TPOD. The continuation in the WH prologue disappointed some people because they expected the Great Purge...

RJ said:

TITLE - The Dragon Reborn
CHAPTER: 22 - The Price of the Ring

The way back will come but on– This time it ended abruptly.

Thirteen of the Black Ajah.

She stumbled at that. It was a frightening thought, but it chilled her to the marrow beyond fear. It felt – personal. She wanted to scream, to run and hide. She felt as if they were after her. Nonsense. The Black Ajah has been destroyed. That seemed an odd thought, too. Part of her remembered something called the Great Purge. Part of her was sure no such thing had happened.

...to move along a little more quickly.

This post has been edited by Terez: 29 November 2010 - 01:14 AM

[QuickTidal]

Almost done the prologue for WH. Pretty decent so far. Like I said, I dug the opening with Seaine and Pevara and the other black hunters. REALLY liked the bit with Taim barging in to speak with Elayne and then Elayne and Aviendha's first-sistering was a nice little aside (I always laugh at the Aiel need to always be naked for important stuff) and then more Logain with his still freshly minted bonds in tow....and I've always liked Logain. It also leads me to like Toveine and Gabrelle a fair amount. Oh, and Gabrelle coming out of the house looking all disheveled after her night of jiggery-pokery with Logain...FUN-NY!

Ahhhhh....*Scott settles back into the Wheel Of Time*....so far this is totally washing the bad taste of TPOD out of my mouth.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 29 November 2010 - 01:12 PM

[Terez]

QuickTidal, on 29 November 2010 - 01:11 PM, said:

Almost done the prologue for WH. Pretty decent so far. Like I said, I dug the opening with Seaine and Pevara and the other black hunters. REALLY liked the bit with Taim barging in to speak with Elayne and then Elayne and Aviendha's first-sistering was a nice little aside

If only it were simply an aside...


(I'm speaking for the people who think Elayne's plotline in the next few books consists of taking baths with Aviendha. It doesn't, but I figured I would beat them to it.)

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(I always laugh at the Aiel need to always be naked for important stuff)

No, no...it's the Aes Sedai who are naked for important stuff. They do all the testing naked, and some important ceremonies in the Hall are topless (a modern adaptation of the ancient tradition of being Clad in the Light for such things). The Aiel...they are typically only naked in the sweat tents. The apprentice Wise Ones go to Rhuidean naked, but only the first time. The second time they are allowed to keep their clothes as a mark of their station. The chiefs don't have to be naked, but that's probably more to do with RJ's prejudice against male nudity than anything else.

I'd provide an RJ quote or two here, but I'd be tempted to quote every time he ever said NO MALE NUDITY on book tour, and that would take a while.

[QuickTidal]

Terez, on 30 November 2010 - 05:21 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 29 November 2010 - 01:11 PM, said:

Almost done the prologue for WH. Pretty decent so far. Like I said, I dug the opening with Seaine and Pevara and the other black hunters. REALLY liked the bit with Taim barging in to speak with Elayne and then Elayne and Aviendha's first-sistering was a nice little aside

If only it were simply an aside...


(I'm speaking for the people who think Elayne's plotline in the next few books consists of taking baths with Aviendha. It doesn't, but I figured I would beat them to it.)

Quote

(I always laugh at the Aiel need to always be naked for important stuff)

No, no...it's the Aes Sedai who are naked for important stuff. They do all the testing naked, and some important ceremonies in the Hall are topless (a modern adaptation of the ancient tradition of being Clad in the Light for such things). The Aiel...they are typically only naked in the sweat tents. The apprentice Wise Ones go to Rhuidean naked, but only the first time. The second time they are allowed to keep their clothes as a mark of their station. The chiefs don't have to be naked, but that's probably more to do with RJ's prejudice against male nudity than anything else.

I'd provide an RJ quote or two here, but I'd be tempted to quote every time he ever said NO MALE NUDITY on book tour, and that would take a while.

Ah indeed. It just seemed to me that there's been a number of times where the Aiel have kept people naked (though I think mainly the prisoners prior to being Gai'shan) and the fact that Aviendha always seems to like doing it. I am mistaken about the "important stuff" comment except the sistering...I misspoke it does seem to be the Aes Sedai who are naked for important things. Sorry.


Also...Terez....you sly little vixen, you didn't tell me (though your chuckle a few posts back and non-comment eluded to it)....Faile POV (I'm captured and ornery) in WINTERS HEART. Arg! LOL!!

Sigh. At the very least Morgase is there to put up a fight.

Oh well. 3 Chapters in (two Faile ones!! *Headesk*) and I'm not annoyed at all like I was with the last book. Faile aside I am enjoying it.

[Terez]

QuickTidal, on 30 November 2010 - 01:07 PM, said:

It just seemed to me that there's been a number of times where the Aiel have kept people naked (though I think mainly the prisoners prior to being Gai'shan) and the fact that Aviendha always seems to like doing it.

Yeah, they just have a very nonchalant attitude about nudity. Like, they won't stop to get dressed for an attack - waste of time - and Aviendha has no modesty undressing in front of Rand. The gai'shain just can't wear anything other than those robes.

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Also...Terez....you sly little vixen, you didn't tell me (though your chuckle a few posts back and non-comment eluded to it)....Faile POV (I'm captured and ornery) in WINTERS HEART. Arg! LOL!!

I like Faile during her capture. She handles it pretty well.

[QuickTidal]

Terez, on 30 November 2010 - 01:48 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 30 November 2010 - 01:07 PM, said:

It just seemed to me that there's been a number of times where the Aiel have kept people naked (though I think mainly the prisoners prior to being Gai'shan) and the fact that Aviendha always seems to like doing it.

Yeah, they just have a very nonchalant attitude about nudity. Like, they won't stop to get dressed for an attack - waste of time - and Aviendha has no modesty undressing in front of Rand. The gai'shain just can't wear anything other than those robes.

Quote

Also...Terez....you sly little vixen, you didn't tell me (though your chuckle a few posts back and non-comment eluded to it)....Faile POV (I'm captured and ornery) in WINTERS HEART. Arg! LOL!!

I like Faile during her capture. She handles it pretty well.

I'll have to weigh in after I read this book and see if I agree. Who knows maybe she'll get less annoying to me. Stranger things have happened. I used to loathe Nynaeve and now I love her to death.

[Abyss]

Terez, on 30 November 2010 - 05:21 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 29 November 2010 - 01:11 PM, said:

...(I always laugh at the Aiel need to always be naked for important stuff)

No, no...it's the Aes Sedai who are naked for important stuff....I'd provide an RJ quote or two here, but I'd be tempted to quote every time he ever said NO MALE NUDITY on book tour, and that would take a while.

You just know that if RJ had been around to finish the series, the Dark One would have been defeated by a massive circle of linked men and topless women.

QuickTidal, on 30 November 2010 - 02:08 PM, said:

Terez, on 30 November 2010 - 01:48 PM, said:

I like Faile during her capture. She handles it pretty well.

I'll have to weigh in after I read this book and see if I agree. Who knows maybe she'll get less annoying to me. Stranger things have happened. I used to loathe Nynaeve and now I love her to death.

Faile walks a long slow path to character recovery but it happens.

As for Nyneave, just wait for the scene where she rips her braid out of her own head and uses it like nunchucks to go all Bruce Lee on six companies of trollocs. Just wait... it's pure epic.