[buddhacat]

Terez, on 23 November 2010 - 10:06 PM, said:

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

Brigitte dead to get back into the pattern.

This won't happen; Min saw that she was still connected to Gaidal, and that in the future he would be younger than her. In the past, he was always born first.

This is not true - there is a quote of Brigitte thinking about how in many stories, she was older than Cain. Either in COT or TOM (the only 2 WOT books I've read this year.)

[Terez]

buddhacat, on 26 November 2010 - 11:35 PM, said:

Terez, on 23 November 2010 - 10:06 PM, said:

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

Brigitte dead to get back into the pattern.

This won't happen; Min saw that she was still connected to Gaidal, and that in the future he would be younger than her. In the past, he was always born first.

This is not true - there is a quote of Brigitte thinking about how in many stories, she was older than Cain. Either in COT or TOM (the only 2 WOT books I've read this year.)

Sorry dude, but you're wrong.

RJ said:

TITLE - The Fires of Heaven
CHAPTER: 14 - Meetings

"Is Gaidal about?" Nynaeve asked. He was usually close by Birgitte, and he made Nynaeve nervous, refusing to acknowledge her existence, scowling when Birgitte spoke to her. It had been something of a shock at first to find Gaidal Cain and Birgitte – long-dead heroes linked in so many stories and legends – in Tel'aran'rhiod. But, as Birgitte herself had said, where better for heroes bound to the Wheel of Time to await rebirth than in a dream? A dream that had existed as long as the Wheel. It was they, Birgitte and Gaidal Cain and Rogosh Eagle-eye and Artur Hawkwing and all the others, that the Horn of Valere would summon back to fight at Tarmon Gai'don.

Birgitte's braid swung as she shook her head. "I have not seen him for some time. I think the Wheel has spun him out again. It always happens so." Expectation and concern both touched her voice.

If Birgitte was right, then somewhere in the world a boychild had been born, a mewling babe with no knowledge of who he was, yet destined for adventures that would make new legends. The Wheel wove the heroes into the Pattern as they were needed, to shape the Pattern, and when they died they returned here to wait again. That was what it meant to be bound to the Wheel. New heroes could find themselves bound so as well, men and women whose bravery and accomplishments raised them far above the ordinary, but once bound, it was forever.

"How long do you have?" Nynaeve asked. "Years yet, surely." Birgitte was always tied to Gaidal, had been tied in story after story, in Age after Age, of adventure and a romance that even the Wheel of Time did not break. She was always born after Gaidal; a year, or five, or ten, but after.

[Terez]

I went back and read Birgitte's POV in TOM (she only has one) just to make sure there wasn't a continuity error. I would say that you were (ironically) remembering Min's viewing that I was talking about in the first place, but it's in Winter's Heart, not Crossroads:

RJ said:

TITLE - Winter's Heart
CHAPTER: 12 - A Lily in Winter

"I am Min Farshaw," she replied curtly. This was Birgitte Silverbow, hero of a hundred legends? The woman was foul-mouthed! And what did she mean, Silverbow was dead? The woman was standing right in front of her! Besides, those multitudes of images and auras flashed by too quickly for her to make out any clearly, but she was certain they indicated more adventures than a woman could have in one lifetime. Strangely, some were connected to an ugly man who was older than she, and others to an ugly man who was much younger, yet somehow Min knew they were the same man. Legend or no legend, that superior air irritated her no end.

Min's viewings are supposedly all about the future, so presumably Moghedien just screwed up their birth cycles to the point that now Birgitte will sometimes be older than Gaidal (including this time around) instead of always younger.

I also did a search on 'older' and 'younger' in both COT and TOM, and while I found that Brandon seems to use both words more often, I didn't find any continuity errors.

If you happen to care why I neg-repped you, really it's because I get pissed off pretty easily (though it rarely lasts long), but in principle it was because you were all, 'that is not true', instead of something like, 'Really? I could have sworn I read Birgitte thinking that sometimes she was older somewhere in COT or TOM....' I haven't read COT all the way through in two or three years at least, but there's a fair chance I remember it better than you anyway. Just saying.

Also,

This post has been edited by Terez: 27 November 2010 - 12:54 AM

[buddhacat]

Terez, on 27 November 2010 - 12:52 AM, said:

I went back and read Birgitte's POV in TOM (she only has one) just to make sure there wasn't a continuity error. I would say that you were (ironically) remembering Min's viewing that I was talking about in the first place, but it's in Winter's Heart, not Crossroads:

RJ said:

TITLE - Winter's Heart
CHAPTER: 12 - A Lily in Winter

"I am Min Farshaw," she replied curtly. This was Birgitte Silverbow, hero of a hundred legends? The woman was foul-mouthed! And what did she mean, Silverbow was dead? The woman was standing right in front of her! Besides, those multitudes of images and auras flashed by too quickly for her to make out any clearly, but she was certain they indicated more adventures than a woman could have in one lifetime. Strangely, some were connected to an ugly man who was older than she, and others to an ugly man who was much younger, yet somehow Min knew they were the same man. Legend or no legend, that superior air irritated her no end.

Min's viewings are supposedly all about the future, so presumably Moghedien just screwed up their birth cycles to the point that now Birgitte will sometimes be older than Gaidal (including this time around) instead of always younger.

I also did a search on 'older' and 'younger' in both COT and TOM, and while I found that Brandon seems to use both words more often, I didn't find any continuity errors.

If you happen to care why I neg-repped you, really it's because I get pissed off pretty easily (though it rarely lasts long), but in principle it was because you were all, 'that is not true', instead of something like, 'Really? I could have sworn I read Birgitte thinking that sometimes she was older somewhere in COT or TOM....' I haven't read COT all the way through in two or three years at least, but there's a fair chance I remember it better than you anyway. Just saying.

Also,

I think that may be the one I'm remembering. Min's viewings are not all about the future - for example, her viewings of Lan in tEotW - about the sword in his cradle and the seven towers (this is from some 8-10 year-old memory). Daved Hanlon and Taim having blood in their *past* and in their future.

As for my tone, when I'm certain, I use words that convey that. (For instance, I used "I think" at the beginning of this post, because that's exactly the right word.) Simple, really. As for neg-rep, knock yourself out - i have never cared for it one way or another. It's tame stuff compared to the good ol' days of the froup. I know you are well-respected for your knowledge and so on; I have little negativity emanating from my side. WOT may be serious business, but there was a reason I read COT before TOM this year - I was setting my expectations.

[Terez]

buddhacat, on 27 November 2010 - 03:09 AM, said:

Min's viewings are not all about the future

Yes, they are. RJ said so at least twice.

Quote

- for example, her viewings of Lan in tEotW - about the sword in his cradle and the seven towers (this is from some 8-10 year-old memory). Daved Hanlon and Taim having blood in their *past* and in their future.

All of these things were in the context of things that will happen in the future.

Regardless, Birgitte was always younger than Gaidal before.

Quote

I used "I think" at the beginning of this post

But not for the other one.

[buddhacat]

Terez, on 27 November 2010 - 03:15 AM, said:

buddhacat, on 27 November 2010 - 03:09 AM, said:

Min's viewings are not all about the future

Yes, they are. RJ said so at least twice.

Quote

- for example, her viewings of Lan in tEotW - about the sword in his cradle and the seven towers (this is from some 8-10 year-old memory). Daved Hanlon and Taim having blood in their *past* and in their future.

All of these things were in the context of things that will happen in the future.

Regardless, Birgitte was always younger than Gaidal before.

Quote

I used "I think" at the beginning of this post

But not for the other one.

Alright, then despite the textual evidence of Min statng things about people's past that she has no way knowing other than with her ability, I must defer to RJ's out-of-text comments ... not satisfactory, but OK. The tFOH quote in your earlier post was more on the money, although contradicting Min's viewing.

[Terez]

How does it contradict Min's viewing?

[Cause]

Given that the wheel of time is infinite its not impossible to believe that Birgitte was at some point older then cain and that some point in the future she will be the younger of the two again. The pattern repeating again and again over millions of ages. Nothing is impossible time without end.

[Illuyankas]

10) Assuming that, because of the whole 'If I'm alive again she must be too!' thing from Rand's anger therapy on top of Dragonmount, Ilyana's been trireincarnated (shutupitsawordnow) as Elayne, Aviendha and Min to match Rand/Lews, how could Lews Therin survive a woman who is as contradictory and annoying as Elayne and Aviendha stuck together for 200-300 years? I mean, Min can only do so much as the tolerable female character in the series. (it's a pity that Moiraine is the second most endurable despite being gone for 7 books)

[Tsundoku]

acesn8s, on 19 November 2010 - 06:14 PM, said:

Lots of easing the badger ...

That's an awesome metaphor. Can I use it?

[Abyss]

Illuyankas, on 29 November 2010 - 10:46 AM, said:

10) Assuming that, because of the whole 'If I'm alive again she must be too!' thing from Rand's anger therapy on top of Dragonmount, Ilyana's been trireincarnated (shutupitsawordnow) as Elayne, Aviendha and Min ...

Surely you mean 'threeincarnated '.

acesn8s, on 19 November 2010 - 06:14 PM, said:

Lots of easing the badger ...

Typically countered with 'cat uses litterbox' and/or 'accountant opens briefcase'.

[Tattersail_]

Abyss, on 29 November 2010 - 03:17 PM, said:

Illuyankas, on 29 November 2010 - 10:46 AM, said:

10) Assuming that, because of the whole 'If I'm alive again she must be too!' thing from Rand's anger therapy on top of Dragonmount, Ilyana's been trireincarnated (shutupitsawordnow) as Elayne, Aviendha and Min ...

Surely you mean 'threeincarnated '.

acesn8s, on 19 November 2010 - 06:14 PM, said:

Lots of easing the badger ...

Typically countered with 'cat uses litterbox' and/or 'accountant opens briefcase'.

spanking the monkey?

[Abyss]

Tattersail, on 29 November 2010 - 03:30 PM, said:

Abyss, on 29 November 2010 - 03:17 PM, said:

Illuyankas, on 29 November 2010 - 10:46 AM, said:

10) Assuming that, because of the whole 'If I'm alive again she must be too!' thing from Rand's anger therapy on top of Dragonmount, Ilyana's been trireincarnated (shutupitsawordnow) as Elayne, Aviendha and Min ...

Surely you mean 'threeincarnated '.

acesn8s, on 19 November 2010 - 06:14 PM, said:

Lots of easing the badger ...

Typically countered with 'cat uses litterbox' and/or 'accountant opens briefcase'.

spanking the monkey?

more of a counter to the 'cheerleader raises pom-poms high' sword form.