[Cause]

So we have one book left and quite a bit still left up in the air. What has been left unexplored, whats still needs to be done?

1) What is Alanna's role in things. She has been bonded to the Dragon for seven books or so and yet never seemed important. It now seems that Verin has sent her a letter and a task. What is it? Why? Will this bond ever matter?

2)How many letters did Verrin Send? Allana, Rand, Egwene and Mat all seem to have one, I remeber reading an offhand comment in towers of midnight of someoone tucking away an envelope with a red seal but I forget who it was. What else is going on.

3)I recall a prophecy where Rand heals wounds of cutting madness. Was this the taint on Saidin? I originally thought it might have been machin shin (sp), the dark wind in the ways. I have been expecting for him to do something about it for ages but perhaps traveliing makes it irrelevant.

4)Will he bind the court of the nine moons? Will Seanchan be at the last battle. Not a lot of time here. I also recall a prophecy of him releasing people from their chains and putting others in chains. I thought it would be Damane and Asmodean. Not a lot of time left for him to convince the Seanchan that the practice of Damane is evil.

5) Sharra! The largest of the three land groupings in the world and seemingly it has no role to play?

7)What role will the See people play? Rand has not really got much use out of them beyond the shipping of food to Arad Doman which I still cant understand why gateways were not used instead. Like the Aiel they had specific prophecies of him but have not played even a tenth of the part that they did?

8) Will he send help to Lan as he promised? Does not seem to be time but I know it wont end badly for Lan. Are we dealing with a difference in time frame again?

9)Will Rand survive the Last battle? At first I thought yes, then I thought yes but not in the way we expect. Now I wonder if at all. SO much forshadowing for it it seems but what a powerull shock it would be if he did not. Also while I dont think Aviendhas sight of the future will come to pass it is interesting that both her, elayne and rand are obviously dead in one generation when they should in theory survive for hundreds of years yet. Of course I am not yet sure what to make of, and how much to trust these visions.

So much else is still left dangling in the wind I cant even remeber it all. Still for one book left their is definitly a lot to get done. Though Terez has said he planned five outriger books? Odd since I thought I remeber him saying he wanted to write new books in a different universe but that it would be similiar to the lands of the Seanchan in culture.

[Tattersail_]

how do people think the last book will tie everything together. i am thinking it has to be huge! how does Rand get the Seanchan involved? Does Mat see Tuon again? Does Tuon realise she can channel?

will we see what happens after the last battle? how will rand die? what will happen between the white tower and the seanchan?

where does moiraine fit in?

i feel there is too much to be resolved in one final book!

[Cause]

Speaking of the white tower. Will the Aes Sedai and Ashaman ever get together and live in peace.

@Tattersail I imagine given the wheel of time theme present in the book a few of the last chapters will be jumping forward in time to see whats changed.

Speaking of which, again while I dont believe in the full truth of Aviendhas vision I thought it was interesting that she saw illuminated ones. Its never outright spoken but I imagine these were people who can channel and yet they were not imprisoned but rather seemed honoured. Its a theme of the book that things change dramatically with time but so gradually that only we the reader can really pick it up. Either way its interesting to see the that the Seanchan will likely change eventually. I wonder how much influence the DO had in influencing their culture in the first place.

[Tattersail_]

i want to reply and keep this thread going, it would be great to hear what other people think as well. i wondered about the illuminators. that means the seanchan do not have collared people any more. i missed this completely first time round. if Aviendha can get the Aiel to see sense then there would be no war in the world. it is only the Aiel that fight if you go off the remnant of a remnant. the whole world seems to be conquered by the seanchan which i guess would be down to Mat?

[Chance]

Resolve the black tower...thought that might end something someone else fixes.

Cause, on 19 November 2010 - 08:25 AM, said:

4)Will he bind the court of the nine moons? Will Seanchan be at the last battle. Not a lot of time here. I also recall a prophecy of him releasing people from their chains and putting others in chains. I thought it would be Damane and Asmodean. Not a lot of time left for him to convince the Seanchan that the practice of Damane is evil.

8) Will he send help to Lan as he promised? Does not seem to be time but I know it wont end badly for Lan. Are we dealing with a difference in time frame again?

9)Will Rand survive the Last battle? At first I thought yes, then I thought yes but not in the way we expect. Now I wonder if at all. SO much forshadowing for it it seems but what a powerull shock it would be if he did not. Also while I dont think Aviendhas sight of the future will come to pass it is interesting that both her, elayne and rand are obviously dead in one generation when they should in theory survive for hundreds of years yet. Of course I am not yet sure what to make of, and how much to trust these visions.

If Aviendhas vision is to be belived he will bow to Tuon, now that she knows this to be calamity in the making it might change, perhaps that part will be forfilled in a unexpected way.

The basics should be Jordan does not write a tradgedy I'd guess everyone major but Rand and possibly Perrin are safe as can be and after Aviendhas vision it seems any victory which Rand does not survive is no true victory at all so probably someone will sacrifice themselves instead of him or so.

Yepp I found it weird in Aviendas vision that they all where dead Rand made sense it was kinda implied he went to mount Doom to die either in the last battle or shortly after, the others simply did not make sense.

Mat will see Tuon again (as there where outrigger novels about the pair planned before Jordans death) and the visions once more implied she was resonable tried to change things which probably makes her aware of her capacity.

Quote

Speaking of which, again while I dont believe in the full truth of Aviendhas vision I thought it was interesting that she saw illuminated ones. Its never outright spoken but I imagine these were people who can channel and yet they were not imprisoned but rather seemed honoured.

If so it changed far to late (100s of years after the start of the war), chaining wise ones was the reason for the war at its begining.

/Chance

This post has been edited by Chance: 19 November 2010 - 10:18 AM

[Cause]

I dont see Mat ever being truly part of the Seanchan empire unless they or at least Tuon promises to change. Seeing women treated like they are as Damane would kill him. There is strong forshadowing in the glossary under towers of midnight about the Damane issue. Its where the first Adam was made and used and the glossary speaks of a prophecy where the seanchan imperial family will go back there and right a wrong. Obviously the use of Damane. Thing is their is just no longer time for such a cultural institution to be changed in just the days we have left of the series. We have seen that taking off the colar still leaves former Damane as basket cases in need of years of therapy. Will be very interesting to see how all this will be handled.

In fact its another thing I find strange that Rand would demand peace between his lands and the Seanchan while they still continue to use Damane. I would think he demand they change or demand the others make them. I wonder if Aviendhas vision about him bowing before the empress was his choice or forced? Obviously that will have t be changed.

[hmqb]

If rand ends up bowing to the seachan empress, even to save the whole entire world I am gonna be pissed...

Also I don't see how Avdhiedsga's vision can be right, because what we saw before when facing the seachan they could just form circles, and then be invicible to the seachan's single casters, and I don't see why the black tower would fall before the white tower you saw how fail the white tower was.

[Abyss]

Things i figure we WILL see in the last book...

Loial and the Ogiers saving Caemlyn.

The Seanchan and Rand finally arriving at a temporary truce and them joining the Last Battle. Possibly due to Mat telling Tuon to take her head out of her tradition-fixated butt and getting on with saving the bloody world. Or possibly due to Mat blowing the Horn and Uther Hawkwing showing up and telling the Seanchan to quick fucking about and get with the program.

The Black Tower decimated, but the surviving Ashaman linked with Aes Sedai so on the whole stronger going into the big finish.

Logain taking out Demandred, rising to M'Hael or similar position.

Galad dead (the whole 'Rand's blood spilled at Shayol Ghul' thing).

Rand going into hiding with Min.

Aviendha returning to the Aiel to prevent the visions from happening.

Lan and Nyneave dead. Because of any of the main characters these two would have huge impact but aren't necessary for the various futures that have been hinted at. It's solid tragedy. Ideally Nyneave goes out strangling Morindin with her braid.

Brigitte dead to get back into the pattern. Elayne upset but stoic uber-queen.

Alanna dead. Probably the DO's most effective attack on Rand before the end.

Tam dead. Probably prompting Rand back into the fight after Alanna bites it.

Fain pulls a Gollum moment.

Egwene and Gawyn, happily ever after more or less.

Perrin and Faile, happily ever after more or less. Expect Perrin to agonize over dead wolves and/or Two Rivers people.

Thom and Moiraine, happily ever after. Or dead. Could go either way with this. Moiraine assisting Rand with Callandor and dying in the process would be a nice touch.


NOT RESOLVED...

The whole Seanchan damane thing.

The future of the Aiel.

Fain and Moghedien and whatever the dark evil power they represent.

Anything to do with Sharra.

[Tattersail_]

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

Things i figure we WILL see in the last book...

Loial and the Ogiers saving Caemlyn.

The Seanchan and Rand finally arriving at a temporary truce and them joining the Last Battle. Possibly due to Mat telling Tuon to take her head out of her tradition-fixated butt and getting on with saving the bloody world. Or possibly due to Mat blowing the Horn and Uther Hawkwing showing up and telling the Seanchan to quick fucking about and get with the program.

The Black Tower decimated, but the surviving Ashaman linked with Aes Sedai so on the whole stronger going into the big finish.

Logain taking out Demandred, rising to M'Hael or similar position.

Galad dead (the whole 'Rand's blood spilled at Shayol Ghul' thing).

Rand going into hiding with Min.

Aviendha returning to the Aiel to prevent the visions from happening.

Lan and Nyneave dead. Because of any of the main characters these two would have huge impact but aren't necessary for the various futures that have been hinted at. It's solid tragedy. Ideally Nyneave goes out strangling Morindin with her braid.

Brigitte dead to get back into the pattern. Elayne upset but stoic uber-queen.

Alanna dead. Probably the DO's most effective attack on Rand before the end.

Tam dead. Probably prompting Rand back into the fight after Alanna bites it.

Fain pulls a Gollum moment.

Egwene and Gawyn, happily ever after more or less.

Perrin and Faile, happily ever after more or less. Expect Perrin to agonize over dead wolves and/or Two Rivers people.

Thom and Moiraine, happily ever after. Or dead. Could go either way with this. Moiraine assisting Rand with Callandor and dying in the process would be a nice touch.


NOT RESOLVED...

The whole Seanchan damane thing.

The future of the Aiel.

Fain and Moghedien and whatever the dark evil power they represent.

Anything to do with Sharra.

first thing first, i am in work and you just made me laugh out loud. The comment about Nynaeve did it, strangling Moridin with her braid.

I think the Seanchan and Damane thing will be resolved.

it will be good to see the Ogier's saving Caemlyn that would be a scene!

things that i haven't thought about until now until you brought them up. Rand's blood. Galad. Artur Hawkwing and Tuon.Facepalmed myself!!

i think Olver is Birgitte's love. Cain or whatever his name was.

overall some good points, you're a thinking machine. rep'd accordingly!

[acesn8s]

Tattersail, on 19 November 2010 - 03:49 PM, said:

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

Things i figure we WILL see in the last book...

Loial and the Ogiers saving Caemlyn.

The Seanchan and Rand finally arriving at a temporary truce and them joining the Last Battle. Possibly due to Mat telling Tuon to take her head out of her tradition-fixated butt and getting on with saving the bloody world. Or possibly due to Mat blowing the Horn and Uther Hawkwing showing up and telling the Seanchan to quick fucking about and get with the program.

The Black Tower decimated, but the surviving Ashaman linked with Aes Sedai so on the whole stronger going into the big finish.

Logain taking out Demandred, rising to M'Hael or similar position.

Galad dead (the whole 'Rand's blood spilled at Shayol Ghul' thing).

Rand going into hiding with Min.

Aviendha returning to the Aiel to prevent the visions from happening.

Lan and Nyneave dead. Because of any of the main characters these two would have huge impact but aren't necessary for the various futures that have been hinted at. It's solid tragedy. Ideally Nyneave goes out strangling Morindin with her braid.

Brigitte dead to get back into the pattern. Elayne upset but stoic uber-queen.

Alanna dead. Probably the DO's most effective attack on Rand before the end.

Tam dead. Probably prompting Rand back into the fight after Alanna bites it.

Fain pulls a Gollum moment.

Egwene and Gawyn, happily ever after more or less.

Perrin and Faile, happily ever after more or less. Expect Perrin to agonize over dead wolves and/or Two Rivers people.

Thom and Moiraine, happily ever after. Or dead. Could go either way with this. Moiraine assisting Rand with Callandor and dying in the process would be a nice touch.


NOT RESOLVED...

The whole Seanchan damane thing.

The future of the Aiel.

Fain and Moghedien and whatever the dark evil power they represent.

Anything to do with Sharra.

first thing first, i am in work and you just made me laugh out loud. The comment about Nynaeve did it, strangling Moridin with her braid.

I think the Seanchan and Damane thing will be resolved.

it will be good to see the Ogier's saving Caemlyn that would be a scene!

things that i haven't thought about until now until you brought them up. Rand's blood. Galad. Artur Hawkwing and Tuon.Facepalmed myself!!

i think Olver is Birgitte's love. Cain or whatever his name was.

overall some good points, you're a thinking machine. rep'd accordingly!

The Seanchan Ogier Gardners teaching the Travelling People the song.

Elyane getting turned to the Dark One by 13 BA and 13 Fades because she persisted in putting herself in danger, but yet her babes still being born.

Lots of easing the badger and 9 horse hitching.

[Cause]

The Aiel or Rand will teach the song. They know of it from their visions of their past. Also Rand knows it because he remebers his past lives in addition to that.

Speaking of the blood thing. How far along is elayne? I fugured the prophecy could mean his children would be born there?

[Slow Ben]

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

Logain taking out Demandred, rising to M'Hael or similar position.

Did i miss some hint of him being a darkfriend/dreadlord? Or is this just speculation.



I keep expecting a clash between Logain and Taim (whenever Logain gets back from wherever the hell he is).

[Abyss]

Slow Ben, on 21 November 2010 - 06:04 PM, said:

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

Logain taking out Demandred, rising to M'Hael or similar position.

Did i miss some hint of him being a darkfriend/dreadlord? Or is this just speculation.



I keep expecting a clash between Logain and Taim (whenever Logain gets back from wherever the hell he is).

The entire thread is speculation.

And i meant that Logain, as a good guy, wil take out bad guy Demandred, and take over as commander of the Asha'men.

[Slow Ben]

My fault, I had a brain fart.

You said M'hael (which makes perfect sense and is the same damn thing i was thinking) but for some reason thought Na'blis instead.


Nothing to see here....move along....

[Terez]

Chance, on 19 November 2010 - 10:14 AM, said:

If Aviendhas vision is to be belived he will bow to Tuon, now that she knows this to be calamity in the making it might change, perhaps that part will be forfilled in a unexpected way.

Just to make it clear, Aviendha's grandaughter Oncala assumed that the Seanchan would not hold to the Peace because Rand had bowed to their Empress. We have no real reason to believe that this is true; Oncala is the one who broke the Peace by deceiving and manipulating the Andoran queen into entering the war based on contingency plans stolen from Seanchan HQ. The Aiel were not held to the Peace, but ultimately they are the ones who broke it. Before then, the war was only between the Aiel and the Seanchan.

The root issue in Aviendha's vision of the future is that the Aiel have an honor-based society. In the time of the Dragon's Peace, they felt like they had lost honor because there was no one to fight. I think that also one of the points was that the issue of the captives was in many ways just an excuse to fight someone again, and certainly not worth the consequences.

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

Galad dead (the whole 'Rand's blood spilled at Shayol Ghul' thing).

I have considered this, especially since I think the evidence points to Rand dying and being resurrected before the Last Battle is won. And then there's the whole 'wrapping himself in white as if putting on his own shroud' thing.

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

Brigitte dead to get back into the pattern.

This won't happen; Min saw that she was still connected to Gaidal, and that in the future he would be younger than her. In the past, he was always born first.

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

Elayne upset but stoic uber-queen.

I hope Moiraine kicks her sorry ass off the Sun Throne.

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

Fain pulls a Gollum moment.

Supposedly, it ain't happening. See your thread.

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

NOT RESOLVED...

The whole Seanchan damane thing.

This, I doubt. Tuon will channel before the end. Yeah, I know it wasn't resolved in Aviendha's vision, but I'm hoping that the reality will be very different from what she saw.

Cause, on 21 November 2010 - 05:31 PM, said:

Speaking of the blood thing. How far along is elayne? I fugured the prophecy could mean his children would be born there?

A lot of people think that, but she's only about 4 months prego at the moment.

This post has been edited by Terez: 23 November 2010 - 10:07 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

Terez, on 23 November 2010 - 10:06 PM, said:

Abyss, on 19 November 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

NOT RESOLVED...

The whole Seanchan damane thing.

This, I doubt. Tuon will channel before the end. Yeah, I know it wasn't resolved in Aviendha's vision, but I'm hoping that the reality will be very different from what she saw.

Heh, you and just about every other WoT fan in the world

[Terez]

Also, what the hell is Gawyn going to do with the Bloodrings? He took three of them. Will this have something to do with Galad's shroud? The white of Egwene's dream seems to represent him joining the Whitecloaks, and this makes sense, but underneath that is this ideal that he has of absolute goodness, of the active intervention of the Light. In some ways, he's not far off, but the concept seems important to his character. It seems to be his only flaw. The suicide mission of the Bloodknives could easily fit the dream - if he believes that it is the 'right thing', he will do it. But what for?

So, now that Gawyn has given up his hatred of Rand, what role does he have to play? Last we see him, he's at Merrilor with Egwene. His mommy is alive, and Rand shows up. Clouds part, and birdies sing.

One possibility is that they will use the Bloodrings to try to prevent Rand and Perrin from breaking the seals. It is really hard to see them going to Shayol Ghul.

Another thing I can see is RJ having made some play on the linguistic ambiguity of sangreal (holy grail/royal blood). The blood on the rocks thing...we know the blood is what saves everyone from the Shadow. Obviously it's key. Elaida says that the royal line of Andor is key. Rand is obviously the most important of them, but that doesn't discount Gawyn and Galad and Elayne and Morgase and Perival Mantear (Perceval) from playing important roles. If Rand dies without going to Shayol Ghul...in that case I could see Gawyn and/or Galad (and maybe Perival too, why not) believing they have a reason to go there, to carry some of Rand's blood to spill on the rocks? The holy grail? Or maybe Galad would figure out that his blood would work. This one seems like a stretch, though...so much easier for this to be fulfilled by the Aiel.

There are a lot of options, but I still tend to think that Gawyn has a more important role to play than finally accepting Egwene's authority over him, or the small victory of getting her to agree that he could protect her if he saw fit. If the Bloodrings don't come into play somehow, I will be disappointed.

But at the same time, if the Bloodrings have anything to do with 'he who is dead yet lives'.....'disappointed' is not the word. More like deus ex machina. But I am fairly confident that is not where RJ was going with them. They are fine to introduce some last-minute conflict, but not last-minute resolutions. Huge difference.

[Cause]

I figure it will be something as silly as him putting on all three at once to save Egwene!

[Terez]

You would.

[buddhacat]

I think those 3 rings are simply a keepsake that have no further bearing on the story. People will wonder about them, just as Egwene wondered about Aviendha's bracelet, Rand wondered about Aviendha's necklace, but in the end, there's nothing to see, move along. Same principle.