[Shinrei]

The context for this topic creation is the fact I'm doing a full re-read at the moment.


1) Why was Tavore made Adjunct? I know it makes for a nice circle, but her rise from some random-noble-and-sister-to-an-ex-adjunct-flunky-captain-of-outlawed-bridgeburners is a tad underexplained.

Correct me if I'm wrong about this though, since I'm only up to (almost the end of) HoC in my reread and may be forgetting some detail provided later.

2) Why does Whiskeyjack constantly refuse healing of his damn knee? That "oh, when we have time" BS never made any logical sense. It smells to high heaven of a plot device simply designed to create a sort of what-a-waste-pathos and not meant to have a logical explanation, which is piss-poor writing IMO. I find myself disbelieving that Erikson didn't have something else in mind and I'm just too dumb to see it. It's the primary reason I choose DHG as my favorite book over MOI, since I find that whole Whiskeyjack/Kallor scenario to be forced. Yes, Pormqual was a plot device too, but was more believable somehow.

3) How did Karsa make short work of 2 Hounds of Darkness? I know this has popped up before, but remember Karsa found himself subdued by a group of humans. Hundreds of humans were wiped out in a matter of seconds by Azalan demons. 5 Azalan demons couldn't take 2 Hounds of Darkness. Karsa (who couldn't handle hundreds of humans) then defeats 2 Hounds. I know that Karsa has become more powerful since his first capture, but the power relation still seems too extreme.

More to come I'm sure.

How'bout'you?

[champ]

Sketchy memory here but...

1) Tavore was a prominant scholar on Kellanvend/Dancer who had an obsession with tactics, this would obv of helped, sure others will elaborate further.

2) Wasn't it was either Hood or the Crippled God who had a hand in this, in him refusing the healing time again to get some revenge, cant remember the specifics of it!

3) It's Karsa, thats my best answer! Plus didnt he have his handy new sword by this point...

Very vague I know, but thats what i can contribute at the moment...

[Kanubis]

1) Remember in some book that Tavore, as a child, would use figures to replay famous military conflicts trying to work out how inevitable defeats could have been averted etc? Everything we know about Laseen makes it likely that she kept a very close eye on the Untan noble families. It's not unfeasible that someone with Tavore's steel would catch her eye. Remember, she's a 'cold steel' commander through and through, and apparently they're quite rare.

2)  Derp (No idea)

3) Playing the 'X beat Y, but Y beat Z, so Z must be always lose to X' game with MBotF is utterly fruitless. For the sake of your sanity don't go there. Personally I like this particular aspect of it. Oh, he did have the ultimate 'Best Mate's Ghosts in a Sword' weapon by then though.

[Illuyankas]

3) The Deragoth use their warren just like the Hounds of Shadow, you can see it when they first appear before Kalam releases the azalan to fend them off. Karsa's personal Fuck You field deters all warrens, Elder or otherwise. Also Karsa having his ass beat by humans was two full years before HoC.

[Traveller]

champooon, on 17 November 2010 - 01:07 PM, said:

Sketchy memory here but...

2) Wasn't it was either Hood or the Crippled God who had a hand in this, in him refusing the healing time again to get some revenge, cant remember the specifics of it!

Yep, that definitely rings a bell... I think it might have something to do with Whiskyjacks sister/Hood involvement? I'm certain that it's mentioned as the reason why, I just can't quite remember the specifics... damn, I need a re-read, I've answered this question before!

As to Karsa.. he may have been beaten by humans, but it was a whole town he took on.. and Cuttles (?) squad that finally caught him.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 17 November 2010 - 01:45 PM

[Coco with marshmallows]

what keeps bothering me?

The timeline.

Fair enough, SE admitted about book 5 that it was wrong.
And yes, the timeline isn't important, but it niggles.
And, after admitting its wrong - stop putting dates in the books after that then, please.

[Gothos]

Karsa was subdued mostly due to a floor breaking under him, getting impaled on a large wooden shaft and getting a sorcerous net (that is designed to kill dhenrabi, no less) tossed over him. Not quite the same as 'a few hundred humans'.

Also, as mentioned before, various Hounds use sorcery to boost their attacks, possibly with a sort of semi-kinetic aura that can burst through walls and whatnot. Karsa's Fuck You (love that name, by the way) field sets the game more evenly.

[Roldom]

for point to, i think whiskyjacks sister (dunsparrow or somthing??) mother died when she was born so she was dedicated to hood, whiskyjack and fiddler (dont know how that fits in the timeline ) break in and rescue her hood gets his revenge by making WJ keep rejecting mallets offer of help, which he later regrets,

theres still a connection between hood and WJs sister, even though fid and WJ tried to brake the link by laughing at it

[Ulrik]

Well, most was said already, but my POV:)

1) She is damned superb-strategist. Studied all great leaders and rulers, QB dares to think that she can best even ST. Also she is cold iron and loyalty to empire (which proves fatal for Laseen, yeah)

2) Well, I usually refuse to go to doctor "pah, next week, OK?", but this was work of Hood who was still pissed of beacause of Whiskeyjack´s trick...and probably already needed him in front of door...

3) He is Karsa... Im not his huge fan, but, well...from his clash with Ashoka Regiment he got a lot of experience, one personal warren of motherfucker protection, beastly sword and evolved levels of stubborness. And he got his share of blood in the fight with Deragoth. But Karsa usually turn be better in slaying beasts than humans...probably it lookes better to "Witness!".

[Shinrei]

Thanks for the answers, although I was hoping people would contribute their own niggling points (thanks coco).

I like Illy's answer for #3, but I'm not still not seeing it for #1. I'm a coldsteel cha-cha dancer but the Emperor of Japan still hasn't had me over for tea. We're given no backstory as to why Laseen would have any reason to know who the hell Tavore is beyond another name on the nobles for culling roll call.

[Shinrei]

Roldom, on 17 November 2010 - 02:36 PM, said:

for point to, i think whiskyjacks sister (dunsparrow or somthing??) mother died when she was born so she was dedicated to hood, whiskyjack and fiddler (dont know how that fits in the timeline ) break in and rescue her hood gets his revenge by making WJ keep rejecting mallets offer of help, which he later regrets,

theres still a connection between hood and WJs sister, even though fid and WJ tried to brake the link by laughing at it

Hmm...I don't remember this at all. Guess it'll come up as I continue my re-read.

[Roldom]

have u read all the released books? i think its in bonehunters.... just realised i may of spoiled....

[D'rek]

#1 - Tavore also may have had a big hand in exposing the nobles' in-roads on the officer academy, as well as their connection with Talons.

---

#4 - In MT, when the Sengar/Buhn brothers go questing for the sword, they have to cross a giant crevasse that stretches from horizon to horizon. There's no mention of it in their journey back.

[Kanubis]

Shinrei, on 17 November 2010 - 03:04 PM, said:

Thanks for the answers, although I was hoping people would contribute their own niggling points (thanks coco).

I like Illy's answer for #3, but I'm not still not seeing it for #1.  I'm a coldsteel cha-cha dancer but the Emperor of Japan still hasn't had me over for tea.  We're given no backstory as to why Laseen would have any reason to know who the hell Tavore is beyond another name on the nobles for culling roll call.

I think if my former Adjunct had taken a personal assistant for a secret mission to foil the plans of a god who was my ascended predecessor that I'd had killed, I'd be aware of his family.


That aside, Laseen probably didn't treat the most anonymous noble's cat's fleas as 'just another name' - I'd imagine she was aware of every house in a fair amount of detail.

[Gothos]

D, on 17 November 2010 - 03:27 PM, said:

#4 - In MT, when the Sengar/Buhn brothers go questing for the sword, they have to cross a giant crevasse that stretches from horizon to horizon. There's no mention of it in their journey back.

I... I never noticed that. I think I was just too awe-struck by Trull's being badass and all.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Shinrei, on 17 November 2010 - 03:04 PM, said:

Thanks for the answers, although I was hoping people would contribute their own niggling points (thanks coco).

I like Illy's answer for #3, but I'm not still not seeing it for #1. I'm a coldsteel cha-cha dancer but the Emperor of Japan still hasn't had me over for tea. We're given no backstory as to why Laseen would have any reason to know who the hell Tavore is beyond another name on the nobles for culling roll call.

I don't get why you can't wrap your head around the idea that Laseen would know who a prominent and wealthy citizen, who was also the pre-eminent scholar on her predecessors and herself, was. Just because it didn't happen in the 5 seconds of screen time we got of Laseen and Tavore before HoC doesn't mean it didn't happen.

By your reasoning it makes just as much sense to question how the hell Lorn became adjunct, because we never get any backstory on her other than the fact that she grew up in the Mouse. Which, btw, Laseen had destroyed basically in her time as regent. It seems like perhaps Lorn would be much less trust-worthy as Laseen's chosen adjunct than a woman whose brother was part of an army that was fake-exiled for political reasons.

[Hetan]

#1 - What everyone else said - but I will just add - have faith in SE
#2 - Hood played a part in this -read Bonehunters for the full monty or just read the replies already posted.
#3 - What Illy said - Karsa is his own warren by this point.

[Abyss]

TAVORE - was a master swordfighter, instrumental in the purges and known to be a military scholar. She worked hard specifically to rise to Adjunct because of the shame on her family by Paran's betrayal. As far as we know Laseen gave her the job because Tavore had something to prove and would try harder. We don't have much backstory on Lorn but it appeared that she got the job because she was very very good at killing mages. In TB we learn that the Adjunct was never supposed to be a military commander role the way Tavore's played out by necessity on 7C.

WHISKEYJACK avoided healing because of a subtle curse by Hood after WJ rescued his sister from Hood's priests back in the day, way before even GotM. Hood probably felt kind of silly about that after MoI.

KARSA - The fight with the Ashok marines was years earlier (and they were badass, to be clear). By the time Karsa faces the deragoth he's been aspected by the CG and the Faces, spent a few years in Raraku and got his personal fuck you field (rep to Illy for that) mojo working.

D, on 17 November 2010 - 03:27 PM, said:

#4 - In MT, when the Sengar/Buhn brothers go questing for the sword, they have to cross a giant crevasse that stretches from horizon to horizon. There's no mention of it in their journey back.

Horizon to horizon is relative. We didn't need a play by play of the journey back once they escaped the Jheck and there was a blizzard going at the time.


Mine: Harllo is HOW OLD????


- Abyss, ..important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not...

[D'rek]

Abyss, on 17 November 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

TAVORE - was a master swordfighter, instrumental in the purges and known to be a military scholar. She worked hard specifically to rise to Adjunct because of the shame on her family by Paran's betrayal. As far as we know Laseen gave her the job because Tavore had something to prove and would try harder. We don't have much backstory on Lorn but it appeared that she got the job because she was very very good at killing mages. In TB we learn that the Adjunct was never supposed to be a military commander role the way Tavore's played out by necessity on 7C.

It'd be interesting to know just when Lorn got the job as adjunct. She's said to have had Claw training beginning just after the Mouse incident (ie when she was about 11), but you have to wonder if she got her reputation as a mage killer while a Claw or after she became adjunct and got an Otataral blade.

Abyss, on 17 November 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

Mine: Harllo is HOW OLD???? a dragon

Fixed.

[Ulrik]

 5 - We still dont know if Madrun Badrun and Lazan Door are alive! This part is IMO veeery selfish from SE, unless he made deal with ICE. Which brings question - how the hell mere (?) Seguleh survived being, probably literally, "under mountain"? 

This post has been edited by Ulrik: 17 November 2010 - 06:46 PM