[Korabas]

Omtose, on 03 December 2010 - 05:40 AM, said:

D, on 09 November 2010 - 07:02 PM, said:

Officers may defect between forces, or may feign defection in order to infiltrate the enemy camp.

Path-Shaper, on 02 December 2010 - 01:09 AM, said:

Kuai Yue, a former advisor to Liu Biao, is dead. (Liosan and High Mage Quick Ben)

Path-Shaper, on 02 December 2010 - 05:39 AM, said:

Yang Dajang, chief officer of personnel of Yuan Shao's forces, is dead. (Serc and Lisheo)

Concerning the defection mechanic. Maybe everyone in this game is considered an officer and I'm just reading too much into it, but if you'll note D'rek says that officers may defect. Serc had officer in his title, Liosan didn't, which could further the theory about him being able to defect. Then again, everyone who isn't a leader could be considered an officer.

Now, my question is, if we go with Emurlahn's theory about who knows who and how defection works, then how do fake defections work?

If Officers are the only ones who can defect, it seems they'll be the bottom of the food/command chain. If they are higher up, they are likely to be powerplayers. Sure, they may still cause collateral, but two heavy hitters choosing to switch to the same faction would unbalance the game (and probably lynch dominance) immensely. Two near RIs is a different matter... maybe the only 'role ability' officers have, is being able to defect?

Anyway, that would put Serc as a peon, not as the recruiter as some seem to think.
Fake defections... maybe just that when you switch faction, you get a new contact in your chosen faction, but your victory conditions remain the same? It would be like a one-time find, basically.

Anyway, to continue my triangle hard-on for Serc and Rashan being connected with Mockra... this chain theory makes it slightly more viable again.

Vote Rashan

for potentially being higher in the command chain than Serc.

[Rashan]

Korabas, on 03 December 2010 - 10:05 AM, said:

Omtose, on 03 December 2010 - 05:40 AM, said:

D, on 09 November 2010 - 07:02 PM, said:

Officers may defect between forces, or may feign defection in order to infiltrate the enemy camp.

Path-Shaper, on 02 December 2010 - 01:09 AM, said:

Kuai Yue, a former advisor to Liu Biao, is dead. (Liosan and High Mage Quick Ben)

Path-Shaper, on 02 December 2010 - 05:39 AM, said:

Yang Dajang, chief officer of personnel of Yuan Shao's forces, is dead. (Serc and Lisheo)

Concerning the defection mechanic. Maybe everyone in this game is considered an officer and I'm just reading too much into it, but if you'll note D'rek says that officers may defect. Serc had officer in his title, Liosan didn't, which could further the theory about him being able to defect. Then again, everyone who isn't a leader could be considered an officer.

Now, my question is, if we go with Emurlahn's theory about who knows who and how defection works, then how do fake defections work?

If Officers are the only ones who can defect, it seems they'll be the bottom of the food/command chain. If they are higher up, they are likely to be powerplayers. Sure, they may still cause collateral, but two heavy hitters choosing to switch to the same faction would unbalance the game (and probably lynch dominance) immensely. Two near RIs is a different matter... maybe the only 'role ability' officers have, is being able to defect?

Anyway, that would put Serc as a peon, not as the recruiter as some seem to think.
Fake defections... maybe just that when you switch faction, you get a new contact in your chosen faction, but your victory conditions remain the same? It would be like a one-time find, basically.

Anyway, to continue my triangle hard-on for Serc and Rashan being connected with Mockra... this chain theory makes it slightly more viable again.

Vote Rashan

for potentially being higher in the command chain than Serc.

well how about voting for Mockra to see if he is connected to Serc? The thing is, Serc was team YS and that aint my team, if you are not on team YS then you should not vote for me, simples, I already made the mistake of letting you know this early in the game, i just haven't rubbed it in your face. if we get rid of mockra then we will know if serc was related to him. i'm certainly not a leader, and if mockra or ruse turn out to be good then i'd be happy to vote myself tomorrow.

[Mockra]

I believe I explained the conundrum earlier, but I shall summarize again here:

You were linked to me, and you were linked to Serc. I was linked to Serc. Thus, lynching you gives info on me. Lynching me, gives less info on you. It's not a huge difference, but it's one that will likely come into play one way or another in resolving this triangle-thing.

However, with limited time left, I am inclined to change my vote to Ruse to get the lynch, which we can easily manage from here if he's on 5 votes...need to find PS' last post.

[Korabas]

Tiamatha, on 02 December 2010 - 11:41 PM, said:

Ok, so looking back over Korabas and his hard on for me.

Ok he complaining about me ignoring the lynch train on Mockra, I'm sorry but that was so cliche to malazan mafia that if I was to contribute all that would have happened was I would have got involved in a argument where I would be insulted and sworn at. I play mafia for fun not to be insulted and sworn at, yes I know tension can run high but I do try to leave off thread, it just common courtesy.

I can understand why some players see Korabus post as a STFU Tiam, if you then add his little defence of me when he said that he had alt guessed me and that my posts was no different from previous games. He then votes for me as he isn't sure thus looking like he distancing from me.

The problem is this is a faction game I said successful NA can win a game, but so does misdirection.

I do not think that Korabas who by my reading of his posts comes off as a reasonably smart guy, would so early in a faction game come out and hump one of his own teammates and give both him and me away.

If he is on my team. Worst Team mate ever.

As this is a faction game I think he fake symping and he done it perfectly.

Vote Korabas

If I had been fake symping and done it perfectly, no-one would have called it fake symping, so your reasoning is flawed to begin with.

To continue: if you had read more than just that one post that I dedicated to you, you would have seen that I had been fucking warning Rashan (and others) a gazillion times when he proclaimed he was in the HZ/XZ faction.

I have CONSISTENTLY been warning people to not give an impression to belong to one faction exclusively, whether that is YS or HZ/ZX.

This would have been abundantly clear if you actually had read all my posts and look at my behavior throughout the thread instead of just picking one post to react to because it concerns you, which is just lazy, especially since I have been a high poster AND providing good chunks of opinion and content rather than spam.

It is shit like this that makes me wonder why I even fucking try and be involved with the game and people's reactions and behavior when i can sit back and wank while the big guns with their night actions decide the game during the night phase.

So, rather than say I have been fake symping you, just admit you are lazy and placed a defensive/ distancing vote or that you want to get as little heat and discussion as possible involving you because you have a power role yourself and are afraid of attention.

Fuck, if I didn't already have a vote on you, I would SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO vote you for this. And it wouldn't be even OMGUS, because all you have been doing this game is defending yourself and isolating yourself behind a big wall of theorycraft.

[Mockra]

Omtose, on 03 December 2010 - 06:17 AM, said:

I really need to get some sleep. I was hoping to get a bit more information before I had to go, but nothing lately has been of particular interest (when it comes to building a case). I almost feel like I'm grasping at straws here, but Ruse leaving without voting did strike me as odd. So:

Vote Ruse

If nothing else, his CF will prove useful.

Anyway, I'm off.

3 hours to go:

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

5 Votes for Ruse ( Rashan, Galain, Omtose, Emurlahn, Tulas)
1 Vote for Tiamatha ( Korabas )
1 Vote for Rashan ( Mockra, Korabas)
2 Votes for Korabas ( Kessobahn, Tiamatha )

Players not voted: , Merrid, Ruse, Silchas Ruin,




Ruse has said he's not voting, I haven't seen Merrid around for a while, and Silchas was definitely a low-poster for ages, so he may not be on. We can lynch Ruse, however, quite easily, even with three hours out.

[Mockra]

Ignore the Omtose-quote above, I used it to open a new reply tab, and to remind me to add his vote to the list.

[Mockra]

*And ignore Korabas' vote on Rashan, then, if he's still voting Tiam....you didn't remove vote.

[Rashan]

Korabas, on 03 December 2010 - 10:25 AM, said:

Tiamatha, on 02 December 2010 - 11:41 PM, said:

Ok, so looking back over Korabas and his hard on for me.

Ok he complaining about me ignoring the lynch train on Mockra, I'm sorry but that was so cliche to malazan mafia that if I was to contribute all that would have happened was I would have got involved in a argument where I would be insulted and sworn at. I play mafia for fun not to be insulted and sworn at, yes I know tension can run high but I do try to leave off thread, it just common courtesy.

I can understand why some players see Korabus post as a STFU Tiam, if you then add his little defence of me when he said that he had alt guessed me and that my posts was no different from previous games. He then votes for me as he isn't sure thus looking like he distancing from me.

The problem is this is a faction game I said successful NA can win a game, but so does misdirection.

I do not think that Korabas who by my reading of his posts comes off as a reasonably smart guy, would so early in a faction game come out and hump one of his own teammates and give both him and me away.

If he is on my team. Worst Team mate ever.

As this is a faction game I think he fake symping and he done it perfectly.

Vote Korabas

If I had been fake symping and done it perfectly, no-one would have called it fake symping, so your reasoning is flawed to begin with.

To continue: if you had read more than just that one post that I dedicated to you, you would have seen that I had been fucking warning Rashan (and others) a gazillion times when he proclaimed he was in the HZ/XZ faction.

I have CONSISTENTLY been warning people to not give an impression to belong to one faction exclusively, whether that is YS or HZ/ZX.

This would have been abundantly clear if you actually had read all my posts and look at my behavior throughout the thread instead of just picking one post to react to because it concerns you, which is just lazy, especially since I have been a high poster AND providing good chunks of opinion and content rather than spam.

It is shit like this that makes me wonder why I even fucking try and be involved with the game and people's reactions and behavior when i can sit back and wank while the big guns with their night actions decide the game during the night phase.

So, rather than say I have been fake symping you, just admit you are lazy and placed a defensive/ distancing vote or that you want to get as little heat and discussion as possible involving you because you have a power role yourself and are afraid of attention.

Fuck, if I didn't already have a vote on you, I would SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO vote you for this. And it wouldn't be even OMGUS, because all you have been doing this game is defending yourself and isolating yourself behind a big wall of theorycraft.

but you don't have a vote on him you have one on me ha

[Rashan]

okay korabas you are a little crazy saying that he should read the thread yet you didn't even realise you had a vote on Tiamatha, then on me and then stating you got one on him. to me you are playing a very good game, i cannot place you on any faction, i like the fact that you keep hunting tiam down, this makes me suspect you have a finders role and that you are able to find alignment, location or role. what was it you found with your night action? in fact we have had one night where we had a death, alot of people would have had actions too, which leads me to believe a lot of people know of things they are not sharing. is this because they don't know who to trust?

[Korabas]

Seeing how I had switched votes....

Remove vote
Vote Tiamatha.

I will not lynch Ruse as I think he just might be on my side.

[Korabas]

Mockra, on 03 December 2010 - 10:27 AM, said:

*And ignore Korabas' vote on Rashan, then, if he's still voting Tiam....you didn't remove vote.

It usually doens't matter
But yeah, I had forgotten I had switched to Rashan, switched back now.

[Korabas]

Rashan, on 03 December 2010 - 10:40 AM, said:

okay korabas you are a little crazy saying that he should read the thread yet you didn't even realise you had a vote on Tiamatha, then on me and then stating you got one on him. to me you are playing a very good game, i cannot place you on any faction, i like the fact that you keep hunting tiam down, this makes me suspect you have a finders role and that you are able to find alignment, location or role. what was it you found with your night action? in fact we have had one night where we had a death, alot of people would have had actions too, which leads me to believe a lot of people know of things they are not sharing. is this because they don't know who to trust?

Ehm, you basically ask me to reveal?
That's a big no-no, man.

[Rashan]

so effectively by removing ruse we would know where your allegiances lie and what team you'd be on. as we are close to removing him this was a weird thing to say, unless of course it is misdirection hmm

[Rashan]

there won't be enough people on to turn the vote around to tiamatha, he is on 2 votes i think, even if me and mockra changed to him that would put him on 4 votes, ruse may come on but no one else is on and then we wouldn't get a lynch. with korabas and mockra adding to the ruse vote then we would get a lynch and a whole host of information

[Korabas]

Rashan, on 03 December 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

so effectively by removing ruse we would know where your allegiances lie and what team you'd be on. as we are close to removing him this was a weird thing to say, unless of course it is misdirection hmm

Ehm, no. I don't know whether he is on my faction, but I think there is an above average chance he is.
I may be dead wrong about it and completely fake symped.

[Rashan]

well he is our best chance at a lynch before night time, its 2 hours left. i don't mind changing to tiam but we'd need more poeple online

[Mockra]

Korabas, on 03 December 2010 - 10:47 AM, said:

Mockra, on 03 December 2010 - 10:27 AM, said:

*And ignore Korabas' vote on Rashan, then, if he's still voting Tiam....you didn't remove vote.

It usually doens't matter
But yeah, I had forgotten I had switched to Rashan, switched back now.

Been playing too many Tapper games, where you have to have proper, single-line, bolded voting phrases, hehe. But it pays to make sure, right?


@Rashan - no-one is going to reveal anything directly until they are sure their team has a majority, and even then...very risky maneuver. It's just something that you don't do, because revealing someone else's allegiance gives away your own, revealing who you guarded tells people you have a dangerous role, etc etc.
No-one is going to share anything unless its accidental. I've spotted one or two things which strike me as odd, but I'm not even pointing them out yet because it's too early in the game to be revealing that I *don't* have certain info others seem to, or that I have contradictory/complimentary info.

@Korabas - not even to get a lynch? Fair enough, but that's gonna leave a lot of even the early game up to NA's, which implies you have epic faith in your team's power roles or you yourself are one...

[Mockra]

Screw it, nearly 1am here, I wanted to be on for day time-out in case I was needed, but really at this point that will be pushing it. Got times mixed up earlier unfortunately so I thought it would have timed out two hours ago. *sigh*

Remove Vote

Vote Ruse

Because he's the most viable lynch, I want the info, and I'm not sure what team he's on. Plus it will give at least some interesting WIFOM-style info about those he's..."interacted" with.

EDIT: Fixing bold tags.

This post has been edited by Mockra: 03 December 2010 - 11:07 AM

[Korabas]

Rashan, on 03 December 2010 - 10:55 AM, said:

there won't be enough people on to turn the vote around to tiamatha, he is on 2 votes i think, even if me and mockra changed to him that would put him on 4 votes, ruse may come on but no one else is on and then we wouldn't get a lynch. with korabas and mockra adding to the ruse vote then we would get a lynch and a whole host of information

Sigh.

Info is good, but not the end-all.
As I have been thinking the sides in this game are equal from the start (a 3-4-7 divide), according to that theory, both sides lost 1 guy so far (HMQB for the Zs, Liosan for YS) and are thus equal in numbers, meaning no side controls the lynch vote. Now, this may change with kills overnight, but that could just as easily be beneficial for my side as for my enemy's. Last thing I want is lynch someone on my side and then lose one or more other players also on my sideat night, meaning the enemy faction also theoretically controls the lynch on day 3.

[Korabas]

Mockra, on 03 December 2010 - 11:03 AM, said:

No-one is going to share anything unless its accidental. I've spotted one or two things which strike me as odd, but I'm not even pointing them out yet because it's too early in the game to be revealing that I *don't* have certain info others seem to, or that I have contradictory/complimentary info.

@Korabas - not even to get a lynch? Fair enough, but that's gonna leave a lot of even the early game up to NA's, which implies you have epic faith in your team's power roles or you yourself are one...

Nope, see my theory above. We've seen one kill at night only, so a lynch gone wrong for my side plus a kill gone wrong for my side gives a definate superiority in numbers to the enemy. I might have done it if there were 2 killers and there was a chance they'd even the score