[Omtose]

Any speculations on faction sizes from people who have played this type of game before? 4, 4, 6 maybe? I can't imagine Zhang and Huang having a different number of people in their factions, unless there is some drastic role difference that gives one of them an advantage.

[Galain]

I like the leaders as ops masters theory and yes, if you want to play in the middle of the board, prepare to be picked on.

[Galain]

 Omtose, on 30 November 2010 - 11:05 PM, said:

Any speculations on faction sizes from people who have played this type of game before? 4, 4, 6 maybe? I can't imagine Zhang and Huang having a different number of people in their factions, unless there is some drastic role difference that gives one of them an advantage.

Eh, it's always been normal distros in the past, I believe. The recruitment game was literally everyone was a 1-man recruiter and a lucky NA or two enabled you to build a following.

Here's the setup...

From the setup, it's pretty clear Yuan Shao is the "scum" faction and based on typical numbers will make up 3 people of 14. Zhang Xiu can win the game without anybody alive. Huang Zhong can only win with at least one team alive. By secondary objective, Zhang Xiu needs to be in two cities at the end and Huang Zhong needs to be in the same two cities OR be the only one in Jiang Ling. All that says to me is that Huang Zhong is probably a "bigger" faction than Zhang Xiu. If one faction can "win" (not talking about secondary objective) without being alive at the end and the other faction can NOT win at the end without having at least one guy alive, then the faction that needs someone alive is probably a little bigger.

[Galain]

So like, I think these are all of the possible outcomes.

1) Yuan Shao win (Zhang Xiu and Huang Zhong wiped out)

2) Zhang Xiu win (Yuan Shao and Huang Zhong wiped out)
2a) Zhang Xiu secondary win (2+ alive, 1+ in each req city)

3) Zhang Xiu + Huang Zhong win (Yuan Shao wiped out, Huang Zhong at least 1, Zhang Xiu optionally wiped out)
3a) Zhang Xiu secondary win (2+ alive, 1+ in each req city)
3b) Huang Zhong secondary win (1+ alive, 1+ in each req city or all in 1 req city)
3c) Xhang Xiu + Huang Zhong secondary win (2+ alive each, 1+ each in each req city)

[Omtose]

Nice catch, I need to go back and read it all again; it does make sense that Zhang would be the smallest given their win conditions (or, at least smaller than Huang).

So, if we say Yuan is the "scum" faction with 3 people, any ideas on their role distribution? 2 killers, possibly with another role on the side, and ruler/operation master (assuming we go with theory that ruler is operation master)?

So, that'd put us at 3-4-7, or 3-5-6, assuming Zhang is smaller than Huang but larger than Yuan.

Sound speculation or way off once more?

[Silchas Ruin]

But at the same time, you have no clue who is in the middle of the board... so your decision on who to go after really is up in the air. Of course, if you are in the middle...you likelyhood of being sucessfully targeted goes up to 100%

[Silchas Ruin]

Holy hell... major cross post.. musta forgot to hit send lol

[Galain]

 Omtose, on 30 November 2010 - 11:18 PM, said:

Nice catch, I need to go back and read it all again; it does make sense that Zhang would be the smallest given their win conditions (or, at least smaller than Huang).

So, if we say Yuan is the "scum" faction with 3 people, any ideas on their role distribution? 2 killers, possibly with another role on the side, and ruler/operation master (assuming we go with theory that ruler is operation master)?

So, that'd put us at 3-4-7, or 3-5-6, assuming Zhang is smaller than Huang but larger than Yuan.

Sound speculation or way off once more?

I'd say that's solid speculation. Possibly the scum faction has a guard, too. Like Ops Master + Killer + Guard or something like that, maybe the Killer or Guard are also the Ops Master so it's like Ops/Guard + 2 Killers, etc.

I'd say 3-5-6 is probably the best guess. D'rek, based on past exp, is extremely careful when balancing faction numbers. To her, a single RI is worth more than any power role. So you don't usually see lopsided factions. That said, there's also the officer defection mechanic. It says that it could be used to switch sides or even try to infiltrate the enemy. It will be really interesting if the town can infiltrate the scum. Would mean the scum don't necessarily know each other.

I could see scum being able to infiltrate town factions and of course, the two town factions, each other.

[Galain]

 Silchas Ruin, on 30 November 2010 - 11:24 PM, said:

But at the same time, you have no clue who is in the middle of the board... so your decision on who to go after really is up in the air. Of course, if you are in the middle...you likelyhood of being sucessfully targeted goes up to 100%

It's as WIFOM as you can get, but I'd guess scum are likely to be in the middle of the board, or possibly spread out to each of the side cities.

[Silchas Ruin]

I think 3 seems likely... but I don't think we should rule out a 4-5-5 split.

[Emurlahn]

checking in, will post mote in 3 hours when on lunch as i will need time to look through this properly

[Tulas Shorn]

From reading th e setup:

Yuan Shao had half a million men, divided into 5 100k armies

I presume one of these will be sent against the rebel Huang. He has no land of his own, and is a roving hero, with his band of 20k merry men (it's China, numbers have far less impact)

and Zhang is a "warlord", meaing he has territory, and power. less then Yuan Shao, but still considerable.

so, if I were to wager a guess, I'd say

Yuan: 4-5
Huang: 3-4
Zhang-5-8

these are just ballpark munbers, putting the fluff inot context

also, as a wild stab in the dark: Operations will probably be related to "positioning" of each faction, as they attempt to take their "objective" cities.

[Tulas Shorn]

From reading th e setup:

Yuan Shao had half a million men, divided into 5 100k armies

I presume one of these will be sent against the rebel Huang. He has no land of his own, and is a roving hero, with his band of 20k merry men (it's China, numbers have far less impact)

and Zhang is a "warlord", meaing he has territory, and power. less then Yuan Shao, but still considerable.

so, if I were to wager a guess, I'd say

Yuan: 4-5
Huang: 3-4
Zhang-5-8

these are just ballpark munbers, putting the fluff inot context

also, as a wild stab in the dark: Operations will probably be related to "positioning" of each faction, as they attempt to take their "objective" cities.

[Tulas Shorn]

iirc, as the outcome of ROt3K 3, (the recruitment game), Yuan Shao assumed the role of historical Cao Cao, as the rebuilder of China, assuming the role played by Wei, the largest of the 3 kingdoms.
don't quite remember where everyone else fit in that.

[Omtose]

 Tulas Shorn, on 01 December 2010 - 01:45 AM, said:

From reading th e setup:

Yuan Shao had half a million men, divided into 5 100k armies

I presume one of these will be sent against the rebel Huang. He has no land of his own, and is a roving hero, with his band of 20k merry men (it's China, numbers have far less impact)

and Zhang is a "warlord", meaing he has territory, and power. less then Yuan Shao, but still considerable.

so, if I were to wager a guess, I'd say

Yuan: 4-5
Huang: 3-4
Zhang-5-8

these are just ballpark munbers, putting the fluff inot context

also, as a wild stab in the dark: Operations will probably be related to "positioning" of each faction, as they attempt to take their "objective" cities.

I think you're mixing up Huang and Zhang. Look at the victory conditions:

Zhang Xiu's forces win when Yuan Shao's forces are completely defeated.

Huang Zhong's forces win when Yuan Shao's forces are completely defeated as long as any Huang Zhong player is still alive at the end of the game.

To me, that says Huang would have more members than Zhang, since Zhang wins as long as Yuan gets destroyed, even with 0 members left. The only way Huang would have less members is if they had a major role advantage; I suppose it's a possibility, but at this point it seems improbable.

[Ruse]

This is just a quick post. I will be able to most more tomorrow.

[Serc]

Not much point discussing numbers/roles at this stage in the game, I feel, but we'll see. Personally, I suspect that Yuan Shao probably has the biggest faction, seeing as the other two are set against him, and both have a better chance at victory; unless he's got some amazingly powerful roles in there, that would leave the Yuan Shao faction in a bad way.
Meh. We'll see, I am most likely wrong, as I don't know what roles are out there and how the "board" or "map" mechanic would factor into this.

[Emurlahn]

want to say thanks to galain for the mini map, will be usefull to keep that handy that said

 Galain, on 30 November 2010 - 11:11 PM, said:

From the setup, it's pretty clear Yuan Shao is the "scum" faction and based on typical numbers will make up 3 people of 14. Zhang Xiu can win the game without anybody alive. Huang Zhong can only win with at least one team alive. By secondary objective, Zhang Xiu needs to be in two cities at the end and Huang Zhong needs to be in the same two cities OR be the only one in Jiang Ling. All that says to me is that Huang Zhong is probably a "bigger" faction than Zhang Xiu. If one faction can "win" (not talking about secondary objective) without being alive at the end and the other faction can NOT win at the end without having at least one guy alive, then the faction that needs someone alive is probably a little bigger.

this post is complete rubish

for starters its repeatidly said theres no scum or town in this game, its faction

Yuan Shaos army of 500k gives them 3 out of 14 players? with the other 11 players allied against him? ridiculous

im almost certian that Yuan will have 6 or 7 players

Zhang Xiu will have 4

Huang Zong will have either 3 or 4

i doubt that the leader of each faction is the opperation manager, the title may lose something from its translation from chinease, but it just seems like an underling title to me.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 21 hours and 25 minutes remaining
14 Players still alive: Emurlahn, Galain, Kessobahn, Korabas, Liosan, Merrid, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Silchas Ruin, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Emurlahn, Galain, Kessobahn, Korabas, Liosan, Merrid, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Silchas Ruin, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

---

("Ops master" is purely a mafia term)

[Merrid]

Looking at the objectives it definitely looks like Yuan Shao is a 'scum' sort of faction and Zhang Xiu and Huang Zhong are a sort of factionalised town. If we take that as true, the most likely role distribution would be 3-5-6, since I agree with Omtose that it's likely Huang would have more players than Zhang due to their need to keep their own alive to win, and if Zhang and Huang are allied and work together it's very much a town-scum set-up in the objectives sense. I tend to think Yuan Shao would have 5 members though, to represent the 5 armies Yuan Shao commands, so Yuan Shao plus 4 subordinates, which would make the role distribution 5-4-5. I'm more inclined to think that because with a lot of roled characters (and likely some BPs) it becomes much harder for Yuan Shao to win if it's 3-11 rather than 5-9. Then again, they could have protection up the wazoo, we can't really know at this stage.