[Cerberys]

Tavore is not dead, at least not yet. Neither is Lostra Yil.

Then Fiddler and Hedge. Can't see him killing either of them off without it actually being in the story, and even if he did they would be back with WhiskeyJack anyway so who cares.

I know Ruthan Guud was being overwelmed but did they actually say he had died?

Brys Bedict made it, the king of high house life doesnt go down without an epic fight scene.

The K'Chain Assassin survived, but noone cares about him.

QB is questionable to me. Entire armies are being destroyed in fiery conflagrations so it is possible that Quick got ended fast and before he could react.

Bottle was doing his best puppet master I can see CG starting off with him being brain fried and needing high denul to save his sanity

Crump? Sort? Skulldeath? Sgt. Hellian? Urb?

The bone hunters got ravaged but seem to have pulled through with heavy losses in numbers but not so substancial losses in key members. Keneb will be missed and if Quick Ben is gone that is a huge hit but they will be getting the K'Chain host, Grubb, Sinn, Gesler and Stormy back. Seems more than fair to me. And with a Mortal Sword leading them with Malazan tactics given through mental commands I cant see any army standing in front of them short of Hoods Jaghut host or a Whiskey Jack army of the dead. But if you find out you are standing across from a WhiskeyJack led army of the dead I think you reconsider what side you are on. Not due to fear but just think out what motive does WhiskeyJack have besides whatever is the best for everyone.

Is Tool done killing a race when he kills the last Barghest or is he going after all humans?

[Abyss]

 Cerberys, on 15 October 2010 - 01:34 PM, said:

Tavore is not dead, at least not yet. Neither is Lostra Yil.

Tavore can't die unless SE is going to pull a SERIOUS game changer on us and have someone else pick up her job. Lostara is too cool to die.

Quote

Then Fiddler and Hedge. ...

Fid has to carry on to the end. Of course, it was Hedge who said so and Hedge was dead at the time...

Quote

I know Ruthan Guud was being overwelmed but did they actually say he had died?

If he is in fact an elder god as has been speculated, then possibly it was just his body being chopped up but his god-self is still around. The fact that he speculated he could kill Draconus suggests Gudd was way more powerful than he seemed. Otherwise that was a hell of a sacrifice.

Quote

Brys Bedict made it, the king of high house life doesnt go down without an epic fight scene.

I agree with you that Brys is likely on the live list, but what makes you say he's King of HHLife? I can remember Fid drawing the Champion card when Ublala saved Brys from the Errant, but otherwise not sure what you're ref'ing there?

Quote

QB is questionable to me.

QB has to have lived. Even if he's dead he has to have lived.

Quote

Bottle was doing his best puppet master I can see CG starting off with him being brain fried and needing high denul to save his sanity

Neep had a foretelling back in RG that Bottle would get them all killed, so that still has to happen, hence, likely not dead. Maybe.

Quote

Crump? Sort? Skulldeath? Sgt. Hellian? Urb?

Crump's too dumb to die, thos his munitions did go boom so it's not unthinkable.
Sort i'm expecting to see again leading the survivors or possibly second to Fist Kindly.
Skulldeath is too badass to die. Hellian is too drunk to die (aside: the bit with her puking and charging the Nahruk at the same time is one of my favorite moments in that finale for absolutely no good reason).
Urb... not looking good. last we saw his he was leading marines in with Hellian... i'm thinking noble sacrifice cadidate.

Quote

The bone hunters got ravaged but seem to have pulled through with heavy losses in numbers but not so substancial losses in key members.

I figuring a lean and seriously mauled set of survivors. Out of the seven thou or so, less than half.

Quote

Keneb will be missed and if Quick Ben is gone that is a huge hit but they will be getting the K'Chain host, Grubb, Sinn, Gesler and Stormy back.

While on some level the notion of a Bonehunters/KC force charging down on the FA is sheer fanboy crack to me, i don't think it will be that simple.

Quote

... if you find out you are standing across from a WhiskeyJack led army of the dead I think you reconsider what side you are on. Not due to fear but just think out what motive does WhiskeyJack have besides whatever is the best for everyone.

Maybe. But WJ and the BBs are aspected to death now, and since about HoC it's been suggested that whatever is driving them towards the convergence has its own agenda.

Quote

Is Tool done killing a race when he kills the last Barghest or is he going after all humans?

Good question. With the Unbound in play and the nasty way that story was left, could go either way. And Toc and Olar Ethil are still out there, as are Tool's son and Hetan's daughters.

Masan Gilani was with the Unbound and Kisswhere was with the Khudryl followers so we know they're still around.

Fundamentally, only Fid and Bottle seem to be locks for surviving the Nahruk v BH mess in whatever shape, based on some very loose foreshadowing. On a story level i'm somewhat expecting the surviving members of Fid's squad and a few others to be sent on a 'special mission' while the remaining BH, KC, Perish, Letherii and Bolkado make some sort of massive assault on the FA, but there are still a whole host of other factors at play - the Snake, Tool's Imass, Gruntle's group, Icarium, the EGs, Silch and Rud... the brain, it fails in the face of the awesome.

- Abyss, speculative.

[Defiance]

Spoiler from SE, saying a person who's still alive:

Spoiler

Tavore. In the Tor Q&A, he said Tavore is his favorite character and we'll all find out why in TCG.

[Tattersail_]

 Defiance, on 15 October 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

Spoiler from SE, saying a person who's still alive:

Spoiler

Tavore. In the Tor Q&A, he said Tavore is his favorite character and we'll all find out why in TCG.

doesn't the blurby/synopsis say as much too?

[Abyss]

 Defiance, on 15 October 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

Spoiler from SE, saying a person who's still alive:

Spoiler

Tavore. In the Tor Q&A, he said Tavore is his favorite character and we'll all find out why in TCG.

That doesn't necessarily mean that that character lives. Lorn and Beak both died, stayed dead, but were still referred to and even sideways affected events in later books.

See also 'There are no Hounds of Light' - Steven Erikson, 2004ish.

[Defiance]

Believe what you'd like, but that person is alive.

[D'rek]

Bottle seemed pretty confident that he was going to lose himself spreading himself amongst multiple Wyvals for too long. Plus he was under a pile of corpses in the first trench, so I doubt any retreat event would have included him. But, if you believe Quick Ben made it out, then Quick had said before that he would pull Bottle back if he ever got lost from himself.

[haroos]

 D, on 15 October 2010 - 04:06 PM, said:

Bottle seemed pretty confident that he was going to lose himself spreading himself amongst multiple Wyvals for too long. Plus he was under a pile of corpses in the first trench, so I doubt any retreat event would have included him. But, if you believe Quick Ben made it out, then Quick had said before that he would pull Bottle back if he ever got lost from himself.

i think most of those you expect to see will survive.
this is based on reading that there were survivors at all from the army.
after reading what the KC are capable of, there shouldn't be even 1 left.
so ... if there are, then imo it's the people you expect to see.

[Abyss]

 Defiance, on 15 October 2010 - 03:08 PM, said:

Believe what you'd like, but that person is alive.

Oh i think they're alive.
I'm just saying this is SE - he isn't guaranteeing anything.

[TheSurvivor]

 Defiance, on 15 October 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

Spoiler from SE, saying a person who's still alive:

Spoiler

Tavore. In the Tor Q&A, he said Tavore is his favorite character and we'll all find out why in TCG.

Hearing it from the horse's mouth makes me so much more excited. I've been patiently waiting for

Spoiler

Tavore to show some awesomeness even remotely close to her brother's.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 15 October 2010 - 06:31 PM
Reason for edit: because it kind of kills the point of the spoiler block if you then post the name...

[Mcflury]

On the case of Bottle: I'm pretty sure he still lives. Sure, he might be crazier than before and seriously ill, but I don't think he'll be dead. Especially since QB's backupplan probably included teleporting himself away or something, leaving the BH without a high mage (apart from Sinn, who in my opinion isn't exactly reliable). I can see Tavore forcing Bottle to become her new high mage.

Also, Hedge and his crazy new Bridgeburners probably didn't take too heavy beatings as well. I'm guessing their newfound munitions did a hell of a job and Hedge will find himself completely overwhelmed with requests of other BH'ers to become part of his select little group.

Also, on the matter of QB... say he did die (which I seriously doubt)... wouldn't he just end up with Whiskeyjack also? So again, even if QB died, we'd probably still seem some of him. But I doubt he died, he might have lost a life or two, but he probably survived. I'm guessing Kalam just popped out of nowhere and strangled whatever was threatening QB

And on the note of Tavore finally doing something as awesome as her brother... I never thought Paran did anythng very cool. If anythng, he always seems to be a bumbling baboon with tremendous power, but lacking the skill to actually use it in a proper way. I always feel as if everyone, and I mean everyone (even Ublala) is playing a game way above Paran's head.
Of course, I never really liked the character of Paran. Can't put a finger on why though.

[D'rek]

 Mcflury, on 15 October 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

On the case of Bottle: I'm pretty sure he still lives. Sure, he might be crazier than before and seriously ill, but I don't think he'll be dead. Especially since QB's backupplan probably included teleporting himself away or something, leaving the BH without a high mage (apart from Sinn, who in my opinion isn't exactly reliable). I can see Tavore forcing Bottle to become her new high mage.

From a purely logistical perspective, I don't see how Bottle could survive the battle. His body is lying amidst corpses in the first trench, which is overrun by Nah'ruk. The heavies may have held the Nah'ruk at the second trench, but they couldn't push them back to the first. So what exactly, Bottle is supposed to have stood up and run past several Furies of Nah'ruk with no support at all? Seems unlikely to me. Then there's these quotes:

Quote

He could see a sliver of sky, could see the wyval wheelinground up there, eager to descend and feed. Grandma, you always said don't reach too far. Close your dead eyes now, and remember, I loved you so.
He left his body, winged skyward.

Quote

But he felt himself being torn apart. He felt his mind shredding away. He could not do much more of this. Yet Bottle did not relent.

which sound pretty determinedly deadifying for Bottle.

Now personally I think he is going to be stuck out of his body and Quick Ben is going to reel him back

Quote

QB: "Give me a reason not to [have the Adjunct make you a High Mage]. [...]
Bottle: "All right. See what you think of this one, then. Keep me where I am ... as your shaved knuckle in the hole.."

Quote

Bottle: "I'll try. But if it's that risky, you might lose me. I might lose me, which is even worse."
QB: "That's why I've tied this thread to this particular doll."
Bottle: "You miserable shit."
QB: "Stop complaining. I'll pull you back if you get into trouble. That's a promise."

but then Bottle will be with Quick, wherever he is, and not with Tavore so no high mage for her.

In fact, I think there will deliberately be no able mages left for Tavore and the Bonehunters will be stuck being particularly non-magic.

Consider:

Sinn - with the Che'malle
Grub - with the Che'malle
Ebron - dead
Quick Ben - unknown
Bottle - mind-shredded
Beak - dead
Tavos Pond - dead

leaving only minor mages like

Nep Furrow
Balgrid (who is awesome, but clearly minor since his warren and style isn't even consistent)

[Defiance]

I'm going to be very sad if Bottle is dead. I've become a big fan of him on my reread; he's probably in my top 10 favorite characters now.

[Abyss]

 Mcflury, on 15 October 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

...I never thought Paran did anythng very cool. If anythng, he always seems to be a bumbling baboon with tremendous power, but lacking the skill to actually use it in a proper way. I always feel as if everyone, and I mean everyone (even Ublala) is playing a game way above Paran's head....

The Gdanisban convergence in TB says you're wrong.

 D, on 16 October 2010 - 01:31 AM, said:

... I think there will deliberately be no able mages left for Tavore and the Bonehunters will be stuck being particularly non-magic.

Consider:

Sinn - with the Che'malle
Grub - with the Che'malle
Ebron - dead
Quick Ben - unknown
Bottle - mind-shredded
Beak - dead
Tavos Pond - dead

leaving only minor mages like

Nep Furrow
Balgrid (who is awesome, but clearly minor since his warren and style isn't even consistent)

Plus the TTG lost their main mage, tho they still have the Mott girl, and the Perish lost their Destriant.

Deadsmell and the Letherii Atri-Ceda are still in play, but that is an interesting point. it's been suggested more than once that the CG has a grudge against magic, yet a force lacking magic is moving to oppose him.

[Cerberys]

 Abyss, on 15 October 2010 - 02:12 PM, said:

 Cerberys, on 15 October 2010 - 01:34 PM, said:

Tavore is not dead, at least not yet. Neither is Lostra Yil.

Tavore can't die unless SE is going to pull a SERIOUS game changer on us and have someone else pick up her job. Lostara is too cool to die.

Quote

Then Fiddler and Hedge. ...

Fid has to carry on to the end. Of course, it was Hedge who said so and Hedge was dead at the time...

Quote

I know Ruthan Guud was being overwelmed but did they actually say he had died?

If he is in fact an elder god as has been speculated, then possibly it was just his body being chopped up but his god-self is still around. The fact that he speculated he could kill Draconus suggests Gudd was way more powerful than he seemed. Otherwise that was a hell of a sacrifice.

Quote

Brys Bedict made it, the king of high house life doesnt go down without an epic fight scene.

I agree with you that Brys is likely on the live list, but what makes you say he's King of HHLife? I can remember Fid drawing the Champion card when Ublala saved Brys from the Errant, but otherwise not sure what you're ref'ing there?

Quote

QB is questionable to me.

QB has to have lived. Even if he's dead he has to have lived.

Quote

Bottle was doing his best puppet master I can see CG starting off with him being brain fried and needing high denul to save his sanity

Neep had a foretelling back in RG that Bottle would get them all killed, so that still has to happen, hence, likely not dead. Maybe.

Quote

Crump? Sort? Skulldeath? Sgt. Hellian? Urb?

Crump's too dumb to die, thos his munitions did go boom so it's not unthinkable.
Sort i'm expecting to see again leading the survivors or possibly second to Fist Kindly.
Skulldeath is too badass to die. Hellian is too drunk to die (aside: the bit with her puking and charging the Nahruk at the same time is one of my favorite moments in that finale for absolutely no good reason).
Urb... not looking good. last we saw his he was leading marines in with Hellian... i'm thinking noble sacrifice cadidate.

Quote

The bone hunters got ravaged but seem to have pulled through with heavy losses in numbers but not so substancial losses in key members.

I figuring a lean and seriously mauled set of survivors. Out of the seven thou or so, less than half.

Quote

Keneb will be missed and if Quick Ben is gone that is a huge hit but they will be getting the K'Chain host, Grubb, Sinn, Gesler and Stormy back.

While on some level the notion of a Bonehunters/KC force charging down on the FA is sheer fanboy crack to me, i don't think it will be that simple.

Quote

... if you find out you are standing across from a WhiskeyJack led army of the dead I think you reconsider what side you are on. Not due to fear but just think out what motive does WhiskeyJack have besides whatever is the best for everyone.

Maybe. But WJ and the BBs are aspected to death now, and since about HoC it's been suggested that whatever is driving them towards the convergence has its own agenda.

Quote

Is Tool done killing a race when he kills the last Barghest or is he going after all humans?

Good question. With the Unbound in play and the nasty way that story was left, could go either way. And Toc and Olar Ethil are still out there, as are Tool's son and Hetan's daughters.

Masan Gilani was with the Unbound and Kisswhere was with the Khudryl followers so we know they're still around.

Fundamentally, only Fid and Bottle seem to be locks for surviving the Nahruk v BH mess in whatever shape, based on some very loose foreshadowing. On a story level i'm somewhat expecting the surviving members of Fid's squad and a few others to be sent on a 'special mission' while the remaining BH, KC, Perish, Letherii and Bolkado make some sort of massive assault on the FA, but there are still a whole host of other factors at play - the Snake, Tool's Imass, Gruntle's group, Icarium, the EGs, Silch and Rud... the brain, it fails in the face of the awesome.

- Abyss, speculative.

I got the King of Life from Pg.114 of Dust of Dreams when Fiddler says that is his card.
And Lostara Yil is the Champion of Life, same page.

[Mcflury]

 D, on 16 October 2010 - 01:31 AM, said:

 Mcflury, on 15 October 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

On the case of Bottle: I'm pretty sure he still lives. Sure, he might be crazier than before and seriously ill, but I don't think he'll be dead. Especially since QB's backupplan probably included teleporting himself away or something, leaving the BH without a high mage (apart from Sinn, who in my opinion isn't exactly reliable). I can see Tavore forcing Bottle to become her new high mage.

From a purely logistical perspective, I don't see how Bottle could survive the battle. His body is lying amidst corpses in the first trench, which is overrun by Nah'ruk. The heavies may have held the Nah'ruk at the second trench, but they couldn't push them back to the first. So what exactly, Bottle is supposed to have stood up and run past several Furies of Nah'ruk with no support at all? Seems unlikely to me.

I like your quotes of the conversation between QB and Bottle, seems like a huge hint at what's about to come indeed. Especially since QB usually knows what's about to happen from a mile away.
But just to support my own (most likely faulty) theory: Bottle can control minds... I wouldn't think of it too weird if he suddenly could control the minds of all the Nah'Ruk around him, making sure they don't notice him when he crawls past.
But as I said, that's probably a far stretch and I like the quotes you gave a lot, so I'm now indeed pretty certain Bottle's mind is somewhere outside of his body, and QB will save it. Now the only question is where the hell is QB

@Abyss: I realise that Paran is indeed a lot more than I'm willing to grant him,I know this. It just doesn't feel like that to me. Perhaps I just haven't read enough of Paran's insights or something to fully understand this character, but whatever. I'll be happy if tCG changes my idea about Paran though

[Bazile]

I'm confident that QB and G. Paran survive the series. It seems to me that SE is very fond of foreshadowing . In The Bonehunters, immediately after Ganoes orders Soliel around, He and QB have a brief conversation. The last 3 sentences are...

" Their gazes locked for a moment longer, then the wizard sighed.
' I owe you a tankard of ale when it's all over.'
' 'I will hold you to it, Quick.' "

I think the reunion will be held at Krul's Tavern. I just don't know who else will be at the table.

This post has been edited by Bazile: 25 October 2010 - 06:57 PM

[WickanAssasin]

in the case of Bottle, I have a feeling the threads that Quick Ben tied to him will bring him back, but he will be changed. don't forget that after Quick Ben fought Icarium he got nastier as a mage, and I think something similar will happen with Bottle...his soul trapping abilities will be stronger, possibly able to take over other humans.

One thing you need to consider about Ganoes Paran is that he has the blood of a Hound of Shadow in him. they are, to quote from tBH, "his kin". between that and the army he now possesses, there is more coming from him and it should be interesting.