[haroos]

just who the hell were the snake ? (not shake, snake).
are they the tiste liosan's memories (just a crazy idea), or memories of KC (since they appeared in icarium's mind while he was doing his shit) ?

Spoiler

is icarium now a living prison ?
there is something to suggest that , when it says that the prison of the KN is held with mind and belief, on the other hand mappo says they lost him again, meaning he is just away.
or ... is the "belief and mind" supplied by errant and his faith ?


and just so i'm clear, what exactly is the cliffhanger ?
the survival rate of the human armies ?

This post has been edited by haroos: 23 September 2010 - 08:50 PM

[Aptorian]

The snake were human children. Just mortal creatures struggling to survive. But their ordeal was significant. And there was meaning in their plight. Something that usually makes the gods and powers that be sit up and take notice. So they may be becoming something else. The named refugees, held and others, of course seem to have special roles, they may have been chosen for something special. Who knows yet besides Erikson.

As for Icarium, the way I read it, powering the Sky Keep and that whole ceiling of the KCNR tear between the realms, drained him to the point that his soul was actually consumed in the process. I think he was either completely destroyed or he dissipated and became a part of the new magic structure that he was building. As in he became a new disembodied K'rull...

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 23 September 2010 - 08:56 PM

[haroos]

 Aptorian, on 23 September 2010 - 08:55 PM, said:

The snake were human children. Just mortal creatures strugling to survive. But their ordeal was significant. And there was meaning in their plight. Something that usually makes the gods and powers that be sit up and take notice. So they may be becoming something else. The named refugees, held and others, of course seem to have special roles, they may have been chosen for something special. Who knows yet besides Erikson.

As for Icarium, the way I read it, powering the Sky Keep and that whole seeling of the KCNR tear between the realms, drained him to the point that his soul was actually consumed in the process. I think he was either completely destroyed or he dissipated and became a part of the new magic structure that he was building. As in he became a new K'rull...

ok, at least regarding the snake i take it that there is no answer as to who they are.
or even when.

as for icarium, i assume you say this because of the new warrens that are mentioned, but he did create the finnest and from it the prison, it's self containing.
i'm not clear if it used him or not.

[HoosierDaddy]

The Snake are human children fleeing collapsing FA controlled genocidal Kolanse. They are concurrent with the other events in DoD, I assume.

[worry]

 Aptorian, on 23 September 2010 - 08:55 PM, said:

Who knows yet besides Erikson.

Hetan, that's who.

[iRFNA]

Icarium created a finnest to contain the errant's eye. It's greatly implied that icarium was completely destroyed in this whole portal sealing incident.

The snake happened concurrently with DoD, as bedalle sings to icarium at the end, among other observations bedalle has (like stealing fire) that happen in the same place in the book. And the snake was definitely human children being chased across the desert by FA. It seems that they were being murdered/pursued the whole time, so it was a very long trail of children.

[Sinisdar Toste]

the general consensus is that the fate of the bonehunters is the cliffhanger, but of course the fate of icarium is also a cliffhanger.

[Abyss]

The Snake was made up of human child refugees fleeing Kolanse. Possibly cross-blood descendents of FA and/or Liosan based on that one girl Bayerall or something who slid in with them and Badalle hunted. The idea that they aren't entirely human would explain how they survived what they did.

The FA who pursued the Snake may have been diluted in belief and/or blood, again maybe human, maybe Liosan, maybe both.

Dunno where you got the Tiste Liosan memories idea.


I seriously doubt Icarium's story is done. Cotillion told Mappo back in TB that something huage was coming and that Mappo would get a chance to save Iccy, and we haven't seen that yet.



As an aside, it's a hell of a lot clearer to make a separate thread for a separate topic than to lump multiple topics into one post a la 'who were the Snake and also what happened to Icarium'.

[iRFNA]

Cotillion could easily be wrong or simply lying to mappo to lure him into place. Maybe he wants mappo to sneak up on draconus and bag him.

[Hetan]

The snake were human children from kolanse and élan. The only one who was different was the child of the quitters, brayderal. That much is clear from DoD.

Regarding Mappo, It's his own psyche that is driving him to look for Icarium. Don't know why Cotillion even comes into it on that one?

[iRFNA]

Well, ST and cotillion must have saved mappo for a reason.

[haroos]

 Hetan, on 28 September 2010 - 08:41 PM, said:

The snake were human children from kolanse and élan. The only one who was different was the child of the quitters, brayderal. That much is clear from TtH.

Regarding Mappo, It's his own psyche that is driving him to look for Icarium. Don't know why Cotillion even comes into it on that one?

then who are the quitters ?
aren't the snake survivors of the KN in kolanse ?
yet, the quitters seem to be FA.
i'm not clear on why the FA would kill everyone in kolanse only, not clear on how only children survived (most of them seem to be realy young).

[Hetan]

Did you read Dust of Dreams? It's all laid out in the first few chapters, except for brayderal, who appears a bit later , when badalle is thinking that she looks different to the other kids.

[haroos]

 Hetan, on 28 September 2010 - 09:03 PM, said:

Did you read Dust of Dreams? It's all laid out in the first few chapters, except for brayderal, who appears a bit later , when badalle is thinking that she looks different to the other kids.

i did , but i don't remember a mention of the enemy that caused their escape.

[Sinisdar Toste]

well the KN had nothing to do with snake or kolanse, but the FA did by basically slaughtering all the adults in a series of city states that ran from the pelasiar sea in the south to kolanse in the north, where the FA originally came from. the snake are all the children that, i suppose, managed to slip away in the slaughter, and even if there were ten thousand of them to start, thats a small percentage when you consider there was maybe five or six cities that they're coming from. quitters are the FA, fathers are cannibal adult humans, and ribbers are feral dogs. sheer stubbornness is what allowed them to keep going, plus some other mysterious elements, like the children's actual bloodlines and badalle's strange sorcery, that aren't quite clear.

though hetan is right in saying that all this is explained pretty well in the first couple chapters.