[GingerBreadMan]

Weave, on 17 September 2010 - 03:11 AM, said:

I've just reread the prologue, and I actually think the "discrepency" is a whole lot simpler to explain. Kallor has just raised the continent and the 12 million there in, but the 7 million, is the actual amount of bones he sits/his throne resides on/in. It's from these 7 million that he draws the power to curse the three elder Gods. The 7 million was likely the major bastion of The Kallorian Empire, with the remaining 5 million being in all the out lying territories.
Seems a bit of a stretch the more I try to rationalise now I've come to type it out actually....
Perhaps the 7 million sacrifoces were that? Willing sacrifices who gave their lives to grant Kallor the power required to Curse three EG, and he 'only' had to kill 5 million?

Why do they have to be willing sacrifices?

Couldn't he have rounded them up like the Nazis did, have mass ritual executions for the "power of blood"?

As to the original question, even if Kallor was originally just a human..he has lived so long that he would have to be an ancestor to the modern humans...

[HoosierDaddy]

So, he's his own father or some such?

Spoiler for a later book, I have no idea which, maybe House of Chains, maybe The Bonehunters, maybe the Bible. I don't know.

Spoiler

The Kallorian Empire and the First Human Empire occurred at roughly the same time, with the HFE being slightly earlier. Kallor isn't like the missing like or anything.

[Weave]

GingerBreadMan, on 18 September 2010 - 11:31 PM, said:

Why do they have to be willing sacrifices?

Couldn't he have rounded them up like the Nazis did, have mass ritual executions for the "power of blood"?

Dunno doesn't have to be:) I just think the imagery of 7 million people giving their lives for 1 man would be pretty damn powerful.
Seems to resonate more than the slaughter of innocents, in terms of granting mystical power. I guess, anyhoo, sacrificial magical cursing power isn't an exact science

[Defiance]

Samuel L. Jackson.

[foolio]

about killing everyone on Jacuraku, I dotn think everyone dies. Dont we see some rough post apocolyptic Mad Max folks looking on K'rul when he is arriving to destroy Kallor. Are there not pockets of grubby humans that are smart enough to not mess with K'rul?

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Those are the survivors of the Fall of the CG.

[Sinisdar Toste]

on the continent of korelri

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Sinisdar Toste, on 05 October 2010 - 04:26 PM, said:

on the continent of korelri

That's it! I couldn't remember the name of the continent(except it started with a K) so in the end I didn't bother.

[foolio]

So Kallor, at that time, is on a seperate continent than where we see those post apoclyptic survivors? And he has already killed everyone on the continent he is on?

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Yes. He was on Jacuruku, which was his empire.

[LordofTheFallen]

Kallor is fully human, K'rul states that at the beginning of MoI. Kallor was a High King with a cruel streak, he claimed to own a massive empire and ended up destroying it himself.
We know that the CG was called down to counter Kallor, and that it landed in Korel, meaning that Korel was once part of Kallor's empire. It is also believed that he ruled over Jacuruku and that was the continent that he ended up destroying.
But... the continent that he destroyed was enclosed inside a private warren, the Imperial Warren, by K'rul, Draconus, and Sister of Cold Nights. This leads us to believe that Jacuruku wasn't the continent that he distroyed or at least not the one that he reduced to ashes.

Oh, and Kallor was cursed to live forever, always fail, and never ascend. He keeps himself mobile and relatively young by using alchemics.

[Illuyankas]

He's a Badassian.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

LordofTheFallen, on 16 October 2010 - 07:08 PM, said:

We know that the CG was called down to counter Kallor, and that it landed in Korel, meaning that Korel was once part of Kallor's empire. It is also believed that he ruled over Jacuruku and that was the continent that he ended up destroying.

Actually I don't believe Korel was part of his Empire. The Circle of mages that brought the Crippled God into their realm obviously lost control of the summons, either after they all died or before. Either way, they weren't aiming the Crippled God at a continent like a nuke, presumably they were trying to bring him in as an ally/someone they force to fight for them, he was just ripped into the realm and ending up falling on Korelri.

[Illuyankas]

The Kallorian Empire covered both Korel and Jacuruku, it just started in Jacuruku sixty-seventy years after the Human First Empire (a ridiculously close second) and annexed Korel shortly afterwards.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Illuyankas, on 16 October 2010 - 10:18 PM, said:

The Kallorian Empire covered both Korel and Jacuruku, it just started in Jacuruku sixty-seventy years after the Human First Empire (a ridiculously close second) and annexed Korel shortly afterwards.

Really? I don't remember that. I just remember Kallor making a quote about 50 years to conquer a continent (Jacuruku) where does it say Korel was annexed?

[HoosierDaddy]

You'd argue with a gentleman shark? Good show, ole chap!

I don't remember this part either. The prologue part starts with "Continents of Korelri and Jacuruku", but that would be because K'rul fed upon the blood being spilled in Korel (there being no more blood to shed on Jacuruku) to empower him for his part of the curse. He then moves onto Jacuruku where the other two EGs are also moving toward.

[HoosierDaddy]

Weave, on 19 September 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

GingerBreadMan, on 18 September 2010 - 11:31 PM, said:

Why do they have to be willing sacrifices?

Couldn't he have rounded them up like the Nazis did, have mass ritual executions for the "power of blood"?

Dunno doesn't have to be:) I just think the imagery of 7 million people giving their lives for 1 man would be pretty damn powerful.
Seems to resonate more than the slaughter of innocents, in terms of granting mystical power. I guess, anyhoo, sacrificial magical cursing power isn't an exact science

The section sort of denotes him having "mastery" over his subjects such to the extent that not even the Jaghut Tyrants did. Now, the way it reads is that it is the numbers part to them, but Jaghut Tyrants controlled through some sort of magical mastery over their subjects didn't they?

[Silencer]

I can't remember exactly, but wasn't the 12 million, the reference pertained to no specific place OR TIME?

For example, if Kallor just killed 7 million people to curse the Elder Gods, and his had ruled this continent for more than however many years it is that took him to conquer it (i.e. he has been on the throne for at least 10 additional years), then does it not follow that, over the course of his conquest, he has had more than the present 7 million inhabitants of his empire under his power?

Essentially, K'rul is talking cumulative, not what he has at present.

Like, when we talk about Stalin having more than 40 million people killed during his reign, we don't mean he killed 40 million at once. Right?

Same thing here. Over the course of his conquest and rule, Kallor has had a total of 12 million people under his power. He just killed 7 million of the most recent subjects to curse the EG's, there's nothing to say the previous 5 million didn't die of natural causes, or during war, or by Kallor's cruelty prior to his mass genocide.

Discrepancy = solved?

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Silencer, on 17 October 2010 - 01:16 AM, said:

I can't remember exactly, but wasn't the 12 million, the reference pertained to no specific place OR TIME?

For example, if Kallor just killed 7 million people to curse the Elder Gods, and his had ruled this continent for more than however many years it is that took him to conquer it (i.e. he has been on the throne for at least 10 additional years), then does it not follow that, over the course of his conquest, he has had more than the present 7 million inhabitants of his empire under his power?

Essentially, K'rul is talking cumulative, not what he has at present.

Like, when we talk about Stalin having more than 40 million people killed during his reign, we don't mean he killed 40 million at once. Right?

Same thing here. Over the course of his conquest and rule, Kallor has had a total of 12 million people under his power. He just killed 7 million of the most recent subjects to curse the EG's, there's nothing to say the previous 5 million didn't die of natural causes, or during war, or by Kallor's cruelty prior to his mass genocide.

Discrepancy = solved?

Idk, its a nice semantic argument, but I think there is probably something wrong with him only having ruled over 12 million people if he ruled for 50 years or more. Considering there were 7 million there (at least) to be killed en masse at the end, it seems like over the period of that half century there would have been more than a total of 12 million people. I know he didn't start with an empire of a full continent, but I also didn't get the impression it was new at the time of the MoI prologue.

The exact quote is something about having enslaved 12 million souls, which I have a theory as meaning he somehow captured the souls of those people (perhaps similar to someone else we see later in the series). Which explains why the 7 million and 12 million dollar quotes are unrelated.

@HD Yea I think the Jaghut had some way of forcing their will upon people considering that was what Raest tried to do when he woke up (he said he couldn't to Silannah because she was a true Eleint and wouldn't be a slave or something like that. Also he tries to do it to Paran who refuses because of his Hounds blood only).

[Illuyankas]

12 million total
7 million Jacuruku, killed by Kallor for the curses
5 million Korel, squashed by godblets.