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Shadow House and the Deadhouse

#1 User is offline   ansible 

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 04:12 AM

I don't know if this theory has been discussed before or if it's common knowledge. I did a search of this forum and didn't find any dedicated topics.

On my reread of NoK, the way that ICE refers to the Deadhouse and Shadow House got me thinking. He refers to them both as "the House" constantly. I don't think SE has ever referred to either of them as "the House." SE usually uses the term "Shadowkeep", not "Shadow House"; he refers to the Deadhouse as an Azath, and I don't think the word "Azath" is even in NoK.

This might be a little simplistic, but the descriptions of the Shadow Moon event are noticeably physical, not just magical.

Night of Knives, Tor TP, p.63 said:

He raised one crooked finger. 'Ah. But you are, you see. You're still on your wretched isle. And at the same time, you are here. Two realms overlapping. Two places at once. What is called a Convergence.'


Night of Knives, Tor TP, p.258 said:

'The Conjunction is like an eclipse between Realms. Even here it passes as we speak.'


Although I don't have quotes to back this up, Shadow is often described as wandering over the physical realm, like another layer of reality that slides over the world. What if the Shadow Moon was simply the convergence of the physical locations of Shadow House and the Deadhouse? An eclipse is a good metaphor; imagine Shadowkeep to be a small keyhole to the Shadow realm, one that allows power and control over it. We already know the Azath are portals to other realms, another keyhole. So the night of the Shadow Moon, those two keyholes align (as in, physically overlap and occupy the same space) and passage through the Deadhouse would allow access into Shadowkeep.

Shadow House generally cannot be accessed from the outside. When Kiska stumbles upon it (on her way to the Deadhouse, no less), she is entranced by its black glass and Edgewalker has to stop her from getting too close to it. (After Edgewalker spits her out of Shadow, she tries to escape a cultist and hits her head...she awakes at the wall at the back of the Deadhouse. From Shadow House to the Deadhouse without actually going anywhere.)

Night of Knives, Tor TP, p. 232 said:

'That is Shadow House. The heart of Shadow, so to speak.'

'Really? That? But it's-'

'Alive. Quite so. And very dangerous.'


Azath houses are also described as being "alive." But it's dangerous to get close to from the outside, also like an Azath. Once inside, though, you pretty much have free reign. So how to get inside Shadowkeep? That would seem to be the only way to claim the Shadow realm and become its ruler.

Also, I have often seen it said that Oleg's entombment comment refers to being captured by the Azath, similar to this quote:

Night of Knives, Tor TP, p.215 said:

'No one knows just what the House is. Some claim it's simply a gateway. Others say it's an entity itself, one that straddles the realms. Whichever the case, we are by no means the first to try to master it. Through the ages countless have attempted and all have failed. And all who failed are now enslaved by the House to its defence.'


But:

Night of Knives, Tor TP, p.81 said:

She needed no more convincing, yet she suddenly remembered. 'What is entombment? What is that?'

'The price of failure. Eternal enslavement to Shadow House.'


Edgewalker comes out and says that entombment is enslavement to Shadow House, not the Azath (though it certainly must be both, and Oleg had to be referring to the Azath). Clearly Shadow House also traps those who try to assault it, just as an Azath does. Could Shadowkeep be a "shadow" of the Azath? That is, a physical reflection of an Azath in the real world? Physical objects often have counterparts in Shadow, as seen by Apsalar in tBH and even in NoK with the Stormriders. They approach physically from the south where Obo, Tay, and Agayla; but a huge glacier is also seen approaching Shadow House at the same time.

This seems to answer a number of questions. 1) Why is the Deadhouse the only Azath that Kel and Dancer could use to gain access to Shadow? After so many years of traveling the Azath and residing in the Deadhouse, they must know of multiple physical Azath locations. What makes the Deadhouse special? 2) Why did they have to access it on the night of the Shadow Moon? They had entered the Deadhouse many times before, probably hundreds. What was different about that night? I feel both of those questions are relevant and are answered by the eclipse/keyhole theory.

I think that the transubstantiation bit is less relevant to ascension than entrance into the Shadowkeep; taking control of an entire warren would be grounds for ascension, I think. My guess is that being a "shade" like Oleg made Kel and Dancer less noticeable to the Azath; with a huge number of physical, living beings fighting right on its doorstep, two dead or half-dead shades are lower on its radar than say, Temper. We see Kellanved actually crawling through the Azath's yard on his hands and knees; normally just setting foot into the yard is asking to be enslaved. So, in typical fashion, the showdown with Surly both finishes their role in the Empire and makes them less noticeable to the Azath. When Edgewalker comes into Shadow House (just like a Guardian would be allowed in the Azath after being enslaved), he finds Kellanved lying on the ground, which to me implies recent entry and exhaustion. Sure, he plays a little trick on Edgewalker with the fake body, but why lie down at all if you didn't have to? He even asks Cotillion to help him up. This means to me that they entered Shadowkeep directly; they did not enter Shadow first and then Shadow House, but appeared inside it. This was the key to claiming the throne and ascending. It also connects Kel and Dancer's long study of the Azath with their rule of Shadow - it wasn't just the path to Shadow, but the actual nature of the Shadowkeep and the throne inside it.

We have seen multiple links between Azath and Shadow - Tremorlor anchoring a fragment of Kurald Emurlahn used by the Whirlwind Goddess, Icarium's assault on the Jhag Odhan Azath somehow further shattering the warren - but nothing this direct, I think.

Alright, crazy theory time over.
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#2 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 04:26 AM

That's quite an impressive bit of brain work.
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#3 User is offline   Sinisdar Toste 

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 05:13 AM

And it hits all the points and doesn't ring any wrong notes i think.

right in the middle of reading it, i remembered something Panek once said to Cot, "They all cast shadows Uncle, into your realm. That's why there's so many prisoners."

it seems to me that this would fit nicely with your - overlapping houses allowing direct access to Shadowkeep - theory. The Deadhouse would certainly cast a shadow and as an Azath it does hold every gate, including shadows. the Deadhouse was really just a door where no door would usually be.

and wow, how long did that sleuthing take you? very nice.
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#4 User is offline   Tattersail_ 

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:38 AM

Personally I thought this had to be the case, but I could never have puit it into words like you have done. Very logical and explained easily. Impressive
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#5 User is offline   Knight of Darkness 

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 12:54 PM

Sounds like an interesting theory, but doesn't Edgewalker follow Kellanved and Dancer's trail (in the dust) into the house in the epilogue?
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#6 User is offline   HiddenOne 

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 02:24 PM

Good work, Ansible. I agree with your theory. What if all the Houses have an Azath correlative that aligns in these Conjunctions to provide access? Maybe some Azaths have Ascended to become the Houses, Holds, whatever?

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#7 User is offline   Tattersail_ 

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 02:34 PM

crazy theory time is great, ascended azaths, how cool is that? ubercool thats how!!
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#8 User is offline   Sinisdar Toste 

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 07:52 PM

View PostKnight of Darkness, on 08 September 2010 - 12:54 PM, said:

Sounds like an interesting theory, but doesn't Edgewalker follow Kellanved and Dancer's trail (in the dust) into the house in the epilogue?


he does, but at this point he's already in a chamber of slanted walls 'dark as vitrified night'. thats gotta be shadowkeep

Even then, mere moments having trickled by since their ascension, Cotillion is wielding shadow-knives, and ST is rearranging the entire visual makeup of the keep.
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#9 User is offline   Wampyry 

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 03:11 AM

Great job. Makes a lot of sense. Imagine it took you a long time to piece it together; it is worth the effort
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#10 User is offline   GingerBreadMan 

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 08:05 AM

Good theory
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#11 User is offline   WickanAssasin 

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:44 PM

View PostKnight of Darkness, on 08 September 2010 - 12:54 PM, said:

Sounds like an interesting theory, but doesn't Edgewalker follow Kellanved and Dancer's trail (in the dust) into the house in the epilogue?


now this may be further speculation, but it may be that since Edgewalker is enslaved to Shadow, he can enter ShadowKeep through more normal routes without it being considered as an assault
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#12 User is offline   Defiance 

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 04:43 AM

Wow, this is amazing. I love the idea concerning the Azath. Finally makes sense why Kellanved got so injured by Surly - I never considered he actually planned it so that the Azath wouldn't take notice of him.
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#13 User is offline   King Lear 

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 02:33 PM

View PostSinisdar Toste, on 08 September 2010 - 07:52 PM, said:


he does, but at this point he's already in a chamber of slanted walls 'dark as vitrified night'. thats gotta be shadowkeep

Even then, mere moments having trickled by since their ascension, Cotillion is wielding shadow-knives, and ST is rearranging the entire visual makeup of the keep.


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#14 User is offline   The Seguleh 46th 

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 08:27 PM

My brain is bleeding, but i like it! Never actually thought of what you said, but i always had a nagging feeling that something was a bit odd about this convergance, as Kel and Dancer had previous access to the Deadhouse, as various other Azaths, i would imagine. Great stuff Ansible! Now i got to stopper my brain bleed. Shit......
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#15 User is offline   ansible 

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 02:18 AM

Thanks for the comments, everyone.

I've been reading RG and I came across a pretty strong supporting quote (discussion in spoilers cause this is NoK forum):

Spoiler


As for the question of Edgewalker finding the tracks in the ash, I also believe (as Toste said) that he is already inside Shadowkeep at this point and is just seeing the tracks Kel and Dancer have made since entering.
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