[Abalieno]

Added another message from Erikson.

[Tattersail_]

where is this?

[worry]

Right below the other one.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Great reading his insight here! I too struggled with this first novel, almost on the brink of quitting the series just as soon as i started almost 3 years ago, but the intrigue was just simply too great of a pull, i.e. "How is this gonna end? Kruppe said what?! Darkness as a 'good' character? Oh boy!" via inner dialogues running through my skull. Now i look back and really appreciate the fact that he left me (mostly) in the dark, or wandering a little bit, as he said. Currently halfway through my reread project (currently halfway through Midnight Tides, which has been outstanding this second time around), and has been worth every penny and second of my time!

And to you dudes talking about the timeline, does it really, truly matter? We are talking about 300,000+ years of "recorded" history, for crying out loud! It doesn't need to be spot on. Plus, we are all pretty intelligent folks here, and can put the pieces together. Heck, i just make it up sometimes as i go, with what seems to fit for me as a reader! Anyways, sorry for that last bit.......doh....

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 02 October 2010 - 08:41 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

In defense of the people for whom the timeline is a concern: yes, the series covers over 300,00 years of history. But the major concerns with the timeline all take place within 5 years or so. (Or however old a certain boy in TtH is purpoted to be, for the most part.)

[Beezulbubba]

Saw this posted to another forum. This person said he/she was going to do a re-read in chronological order before the Crippled God comes out.
* disclaimer, don't bitch and moan at me if it is your opinion this is incorrect, I just lifted this and pasted here (from another forum), I had no part in the post, nor (since I am just starting MT) do I know the chronological order.

In-Depth Chronological Order of the Series

Prologue I of Midnight Tides/Prologue I of Reaper's Gale

Prologue I of Memories of Ice

Prologue II of Memories of Ice

Prologue of Gardens of the Moon

Night of Knives



Blood Follows

The Lees of Laughters End

The Healthy Dead



Prologue II of Midnight Tides

Chapter 1 of Gardens of the Moon

Midnight Tides

Prologue and Book I of House of Chains

Gardens of the Moon

Deadhouse Gates/Memories of Ice (occur simultaneously)

Books II-IV of House of Chains

Prologue II of Reaper's Gale

The Bonehunters

Return of the Crimson Guard

Reaper's Gale

Toll the Hounds

Dust of Dreams

[Tattersail_]

It would just be best to read them as they came out surely. It is what makes this series so great, we get to think for ourselves a lot!!

xxx

[Sinisdar Toste]

that seems like it would be a really interesting reading schedule, if just for variety in your rereading.

thats it! i'm going back and starting over!

[The Seguleh 46th]

Salt-Man Z, on 04 October 2010 - 06:12 PM, said:

In defense of the people for whom the timeline is a concern: yes, the series covers over 300,00 years of history. But the major concerns with the timeline all take place within 5 years or so. (Or however old a certain boy in TtH is purpoted to be, for the most part.)

I get ya, and i understand why it can be so important to some readers. I just personally don't mind the inconsistencies, and the presentation of oral history from various characters/races really adds the spice to that, IMO. As far as that certain child, i get ya, but it really didn't bother me in the least. If that child was 2 or 3 (and anonymous), would anyone really care about his story? Heck, he wouldn't even be able to do much more than eat, drool, or starve! Ok, just being a bit silly now....sorry!

[Spiridon_Deannis]

Abalieno, considering how embarassingly eager you have been to post SE´s comments here, I am surprised you have ignored this one from the reread yet. Could it be because he addresses you personally ? And not exactly the way you would have liked ? Don´t be amused - just READ UP !

41. StevenErikson
Saturday October 09, 2010 12:37pm EDT
Flag | Bookmark
Hello all,
Over the past two days I have been working through the manuscript of The Crippled God with my editor, who came down to Falmouth from London with a sense of history, since with Gardens of the Moon he did the same -- down to where I was living at the time, and we went through things page by page, line by line. Needless to say, when it was done, yesterday afternoon, there was a moment of deepfelt emotion. Now I await the proofs, to arrive sometime in the beginning of November, for a final work-through.

It's still hard to believe this series is done, this chapter concluded.

Listening on headphones to Crissie Hynde and Sinatra dueting on 'Luck be a Lady' and while this might make you younger readers cringe, what can I say? Best version I've ever heard of that old swing tune. Crissie's voice is to die for.

There have been questions on my writing process, so let me cover that with a general description of how I go about writing on a daily basis. First of all, and this is an undercurrent I keep alive for many reasons, I begin with being thankful. To do this for a living is such a privilege, I damn near feel guilty about it. Disbelief still stirs every now and then, even after all these years. So, thank you all for making this possible.

Not sure if I'm jumping the gun responding here. I know Cam will be coming on board at some point, so I will make a point of returning to you when that happens, so that Cam and I can possibly get into one of our usual dialogues, where you can all listen in, as it were. But at the moment the number of questions seems manageable, though it may still take me a couple sessions to go through them all.

I prefer to sit in a cafe where I can look out the window, watch people passing by. The Falmouth High Street is ideal, as it stays busy and one gets to recognise various locals. It's the far focus and near focus exercise that's become habit by now: no point in making my vision any worse than it already is, after all.

I order my decaf: as for any possible change in my creativity due to this alteration, well, the decaf is somewhat misleading. I think what was bugging my insides was as much the oil in coffee as the caffeine. I do fine with instant coffee and I still drink cola. But too much caffeine keeps me up at night. That said, I'm usually up till two a.m. most nights, winding down with a couple hours playing Star Trek Online (didn't know I was a Trekker? How could I not be? Though I'm more original series than the others).

Laptop fired up, music on, I re-read what I wrote the day before; or in the case of this last novel, I re-read what I wrote over the previous two days (accordingly, this novel went to the publisher as the most polished since Deadhouse Gates -- the copy-editor had all of two typescript pages of queries, and that on a 350 000 word novel). In this re-reading process, I do an intense edit, word by word; at the same time, I mentally work back into the narrative stream. I ground myself back into the world.

This done, I then begin writing new stuff. Sometimes it arrives smoothly, almost effortlessly. Other times, it's an hour to get through the first few paragraphs. Either way, I'm not bothered. The pressure I feel has nothing to do with that. Instead (and what made the last three months writing The Crippled God a daily descent into a butterflies-in-the-gut ordeal) the pressure I feel is to accurately and truthfully translate what's in my head (and heart) onto the page. The most basic challenge of communication -- I don't mean to make it sound profound or anything. Thing is, I want to get it right. I am well aware of reader expectations, of the promises I have in effect made to all of you, and I want to deliver on those promises.

Abalieno has gone on at length on these chapter posts on matters of timing, consistency, and authorial intentions; sometimes to the frustration of others. I understand the root of his (?) argument. The reader arrives with faith: the author arrives with a pitch, a series of arguments seeking to persuade the reader to give up a little of that faith.

Things get problematic when what the author wants to talk about is 'this,' while what the reader is looking for is 'that.' At that point, the notion of faith becomes currency: it becomes ... well ... a spinning coin. If faith is currency, which of has the most to lose? Reader, or author?

To me, the answer seems obvious. Reject the author and the author needs a real job, and quickly. So, in other words, I take this seriously. The fictional dream is all about the reader trusting the author (and a bit of the other way round, but that is a separate topic). But it's always a slippery slope for the author. You plant the seeds, and imagine a future where those blossoms blaze with fire and life; but once a reader is made aware of the fact that things are going on beneath the surface, they in turn awaken their accuity: they start looking under every rock.

If I was to honestly describe here the extent to which I gave thought to how I was going to write these novels, you'd probably lock me up in a padded room. So much of writing doesn't involve putting words to the page. I had come out of two exceptional writing schools. The notion of structure was a coruscating force running through me. I was well aware that before too long they'd all start looking under every rock (assuming anyone ever came to the story in the first place); and I well knew the risks involved in that happening.

My first structural solution was to anchor every moment of narration to a particular character point-of-view: thus limiting the details to what that character could experience. Underlying that surface would be the character's own sense of place in that world, in life experiences, in attitude, in world-view. [by the way, I broke that single character-based POV later on, but then, I had my reasons. I always do;)].

This structural approach proved immensely liberating. The very idea that characters could get it all wrong was so ... cool. At the same time, what choice does the reader have, but to follow along or toss it in? To keep them on board, I'd clearly need other incentives, but more of that later -- and it should be clear here that I am speaking of writing process, not the world Cam and I co-created; our approaches to that are quite similar. Our approaches to the writing process may well be very different). So let's just say they're with me (you're with me, that is). What does this do to that old handshake agreement on faith?

Hence the slippery slope. Because, with this reassuring smile, I then lie. I mislead, I play shell games. I flat out contradict, setting characters against one another over interpretations of events, history, etc.

Layer over that a mindfuck of traditional fantasy tropes (relying on the belief that the readers knew those tropes), and things start getting complicated. Looking back, I think that is why so few fantasy writers really break out from those tropes. Their first engagement on the bargain-table is to offer familiar trappings, only to then slide in original, inventive elements to differentiate their work from all that went before ... when they deem it safe to do so. And if they don't, if it ends up being all old hat, then the novel fails and will likely vanish, or never get published in the first place.

Gardens of the Moon kinda wrecked all that, arriving like a drunk bull in a china shop. But was it really drunk? Or was it all an act? Maybe it's just running an insurance scam with the shop owner?

The core of this series centres on Shadowthrone and Cotillion. They are not reliable. On another level, the core of the series is about language, and the very dialogue that is the exchange between story-teller and audience. On a third level, the core of the series is an invitation to humanity, in the value-laden sense of the word, and so is about compassion, grief, love, and courage (and of course about their opposite forces in the human condition).

Would this series have turned out fundamentally different if Gardens of the Moon had immediately found a publisher? Would it have been lighter, happier, more positive, more affirming of the best that is within us?

Questions like that one arrive like a perfectly cooked ribeye steak (and I do like my steak, medium rare if you please). I have one answer, here in the still swirling wake of reviewing The Crippled God with my editor, and bearing in mind a comment he made to me about this last book, but to say anything at all would be a kind of spoiler. Remind me of this question once the book's out: but then, you might well have your answer. It's there in The Crippled God.

The series is also the track of a life. Mine. Twenty years' worth of it, anyway. I am reminded of jgtheok's question on religion, and his/her beautifully written line: 'sometimes the cosmology/theology seems like nothing but chains, all the way down.' Yikes, wish I'd written that one. It's one thing to bargain with the currency of faith, it's another to question its very value. I've noted that Toll the Hounds is the cipher for the series (and that statement can be tracked down a number of paths), but in this instance the meaning I intend is simply this: that novel took me into despair's depths, and then made me climb back out.

Read here and take your spoiler regards The Crippled God. I climbed back out, friends.

Abalieno, you will sit at my table for four novels, but so many of your questions are the stuff of conjecture -- and conjecture, particularly in regard to character motivations, is the very thing I want to keep forever alive. How can I answer? And for the sake of those still at the table, seeing the game through to its very end, why should I? I do understand the fence you're balanced on at the moment; and I understand that you are asking me for a helping hand to presuambly help you decide whether to rejoin the game or not. And for all that I also know that I have invited you, as I have all these other readers, to look under every rock. Yet, still I find myself resisting the notion of replying directly to your questions.

But maybe I can go this far: the notion of retcon or restructuring between Gardens of the Moon and the rest of the series, amuses me, but not in a cruel way. Invention on the fly is part of the joy of writing, while on the other side there is the deliberate, planned, ferocious intent; and I have plenty of both. The challenge is as you say: making certain the two are not entirely at odds. There's plenty of false trails in GotM, just as there are in the rest of the novels in the series. Are they deliberate on my part? Yes and no. Hence, my amusement -- I can answer you no other way, and that answer is no answer at all, is it?

Oh, here, then. The Jaghut are damnably hard to kill. They know that. They plan for it. Quick Ben is always scheming. Even his schemes consist of schemes. As he'll tell you given the chance, he's a genius who knows more than he ever thought he knew. [ ref a different question, from Karsa_Orlong ... Soletaken of D'ivers? Shapeshifting? When has QB not shapeshifted? Go back to the meaning of those two invented words: Soletaken, to change from one shape to another; D'ivers, to change from one to many. Making sense yet? QB shape-changes with every time you meet him, and at least one of him utters corny lines -- thankfully the others killed that one off soon thereafter). Laseen is human and screws up with the best of them; and sometimes Shadowthrone says things even he doesn't believe. Blame Cam, I'm only the stenographer.

Well, like I said, this could take a few sessions. Some goof is on the piano here in Mango Tango; he might even be good but try writing with that stampeding through your skull. Time to sign off for now. Abalieno, don't get pissed, I'm not done with responding to your questions; and as for everyone else, I have notes on all your queries, so bear with me.

cheers for now
SE

http://www.tor.com/b...on-start-asking

This post has been edited by Spiridon_Deannis: 10 October 2010 - 07:30 PM

[Aptorian]

Oh my, I really loved this line:

Quote

Gardens of the Moon kinda wrecked all that, arriving like a drunk bull in a china shop. But was it really drunk? Or was it all an act? Maybe it's just running an insurance scam with the shop owner?

[Mcflury]

Aptorian, on 10 October 2010 - 07:55 PM, said:

Oh my, I really loved this line:

Quote

Gardens of the Moon kinda wrecked all that, arriving like a drunk bull in a china shop. But was it really drunk? Or was it all an act? Maybe it's just running an insurance scam with the shop owner?

Aye. I recognised some Tehol in that line as well

[Spiridon_Deannis]

Mcflury, on 10 October 2010 - 08:13 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 10 October 2010 - 07:55 PM, said:

Oh my, I really loved this line:

Quote

Gardens of the Moon kinda wrecked all that, arriving like a drunk bull in a china shop. But was it really drunk? Or was it all an act? Maybe it's just running an insurance scam with the shop owner?

Aye. I recognised some Tehol in that line as well

Biggest joke is that Abalieno didn´t even get it...

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

I don't know about you guys, but I always find SE's comments a pleasure to read. They all seem to explain a load about the series without actually explaining anything at all. I think what's nice is the way he keeps in contact with his fans, which you just don't get with the majority of authors.

[Puck]

Green Pig, on 10 October 2010 - 08:40 PM, said:

I don't know about you guys, but I always find SE's comments a pleasure to read. They all seem to explain a load about the series without actually explaining anything at all. I think what's nice is the way he keeps in contact with his fans, which you just don't get with the majority of authors.

Totally agreed.

[Abalieno]

Spiridon_Deannis, on 10 October 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

Abalieno, considering how embarassingly eager you have been to post SE´s comments here, I am surprised you have ignored this one from the reread yet. Could it be because he addresses you personally ? And not exactly the way you would have liked ? Don´t be amused - just READ UP !

I would have linked that one, done it elsewhere already.

I'll read up at the right time. Today I finished that masterpiece that is Disciple of the Dog, then I'll have to finish the first Bakker fantasy book and The Way of Kings that I've already started. I have my plans.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Aptorian, on 10 October 2010 - 07:55 PM, said:

Oh my, I really loved this line:

Quote

Gardens of the Moon kinda wrecked all that, arriving like a drunk bull in a china shop. But was it really drunk? Or was it all an act? Maybe it's just running an insurance scam with the shop owner?

Nice! I really need to get called back into work so i can finish Midnight Tides and get closer to completing my re-read! I know, it's sad, but sitting on a train for 10+ hours gets pretty boring, and while i do read at home sometimes, its the freaking MLB playoffs right now! That San Francisco/Atlanta series has been utterly amazing, if you don't mind pitching duels (which can be boring for some, i understand...)!

Sorry, got excited a bit there. Feel free to delete my completely irrelevent post. Sigh........

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 11 October 2010 - 07:59 AM

[Puck]

Abalieno, on 11 October 2010 - 06:14 AM, said:

I'll read up at the right time. Today I finished that masterpiece that is Disciple of the Dog, then I'll have to finish the first Bakker fantasy book and The Way of Kings that I've already started. I have my plans.

No wonder you can't focus on one thing when you're hopping all over the place. Frankly, just because you think you have to do a thousand things at the same time doesn't mean other people have to comply with your wishes. As you might have noticed, most people who actually focus on reading the series we're talking about don't need any of the stuff you demand.

[Tattersail_]

Abalieno, on 11 October 2010 - 06:14 AM, said:

Spiridon_Deannis, on 10 October 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

Abalieno, considering how embarassingly eager you have been to post SE´s comments here, I am surprised you have ignored this one from the reread yet. Could it be because he addresses you personally ? And not exactly the way you would have liked ? Don´t be amused - just READ UP !

I would have linked that one, done it elsewhere already.

I'll read up at the right time. Today I finished that masterpiece that is Disciple of the Dog, then I'll have to finish the first Bakker fantasy book and The Way of Kings that I've already started. I have my plans.

What is the point in skipping between all the different books. read one series then another, otherwise how can you get lost in a world and picture all the characters and understand all the jokes if you're getting mixed up between books. If you have only read the first few books then you cannot understand what is going on and where the series is going. it's impossible.

[Spiridon_Deannis]

Abalieno, on 11 October 2010 - 06:14 AM, said:

Spiridon_Deannis, on 10 October 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

Abalieno, considering how embarassingly eager you have been to post SE´s comments here, I am surprised you have ignored this one from the reread yet. Could it be because he addresses you personally ? And not exactly the way you would have liked ? Don´t be amused - just READ UP !

I would have linked that one, done it elsewhere already.

I'll read up at the right time. Today I finished that masterpiece that is Disciple of the Dog, then I'll have to finish the first Bakker fantasy book and The Way of Kings that I've already started. I have my plans.

Hmm, interesting - you´ll read up at the *right time* (whatever that means), but in the meantime, you *kindly request* that SE change & correct a lot of things in his cycle that do not please you. Well, if SE is nice, he might just rewrite the whole cycle according to your wishes so that you can finally put him on your absolute-priorities list. Or SE could simply tell you to go stick it and do your homework. Wait...gee...he just did the latter, didn´t he ? I could add now that this is NOT a cycle for haphazard skip-reading, that it requires dedication & rereads, that it was designed that way, etc., etc. - but that would be blowing dust in the wind, now wouldn´t it ?