[ansible]

Sinisdar Toste, on 19 August 2010 - 05:28 AM, said:

don't see what the need for undeniable evidence is. it's pretty obvious that the accessing and manipulation of warrens, in whatever form that takes, increases the lifespan of a normal human being. who needs this definite, pinned down proof - or exact limit on how old mages can get - and why would you expect it from SE or even ICE?

kellenved is old. obviously i have no proof of this, but i expect he was at least a century old before the empire was founded. it should take at least that long for a nobody dal honese warlock with a talent for shadows and trickery to figure out how to get into an azath house.

Mostly I agree with you, which is why I think it's odd that Tattersail was specifically mentioned to be over 200 years old. There doesn't seem to be any indication elsewhere of exactly how long mages or other humans live, which is why I balk at using the "But Tattersail is 200!" argument. Ah, Gardens of the Moon...

[Use Of Weapons]

I think that, though Kanubis has a possible theory, the quote from 'Lives of the Three' is so clearly a snatch from a biography that Grub is clearly one of the three of the title. So Shal-Morzinn is a red herring.

[Tattersail_]

i think it is a red herring as well, in context it does look as grub is one of the three!! By then maybe he will be 300 years old?

[Silk]

well the world of the malazans is littered with 3's .... I think it was stated in one of the books how things migrate to 3's....... 3 Brothers of Dark, Shield Anvil/Mortal Sword/Destriant, Shal Morzim 3, the 3 Nachts and the list goes on

[champ]

ansible, on 19 August 2010 - 06:41 AM, said:

Mostly I agree with you, which is why I think it's odd that Tattersail was specifically mentioned to be over 200 years old.

Tattersail's age was only mentioned because it was directly involved in the story, her internal monologue in whether she was cradle snatching Paran, as she was comparing both their ages/experiences and whether it was suitable for them to get it on!

[D'rek]

Off the top of my head, human mages that are known to have lived longer than usual lives:

Bellurdan
Hairlock
A'Karonys
Ipshank
Tayschrenn
Kellanved
Dancer
Bidithal
Febryl

Spoiler

Possum
Ho
Ho's wickan-witch friend
Yath
Baruk
Derudan
Mammot
the other T'orrud

That plus several quotes supporting it, makes it seem pretty damn obvious to me. Also, watch the spoilers there's been quite a few up-thread that aren't in tags.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 20 August 2010 - 03:15 PM

[Bauchelain the Evil]

On regard of who the other two of the Life of the Three could be, couldn't it simply be about the First Swords of the Empire.

So, Dassem, Grub and

Spoiler

Korbolo Dom

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

D, on 20 August 2010 - 03:12 PM, said:

Off the top of my head, human mages that are known to have lived longer than usual lives:

Bellurdan
Hairlock
A'Karonys
Ipshank
Tayschrenn
Kellanved
Dancer
Bidithal
Febryl

Spoiler

Possum
Ho
Ho's wickan-witch friend
Yath
Baruk
Derudan
Mammot
the other T'orrud

That plus several quotes supporting it, makes it seem pretty damn obvious to me. Also, watch the spoilers there's been quite a few up-thread that aren't in tags.

I agree with this post entirely. Except for the part where you lead off the list of human mages with Bellurdan lol.

[D'rek]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 21 August 2010 - 10:02 PM, said:

D, on 20 August 2010 - 03:12 PM, said:

Off the top of my head, human mages that are known to have lived longer than usual lives:

Bellurdan
Hairlock
A'Karonys
Ipshank
Tayschrenn
Kellanved
Dancer
Bidithal
Febryl

Spoiler

Possum
Ho
Ho's wickan-witch friend
Yath
Baruk
Derudan
Mammot
the other T'orrud

That plus several quotes supporting it, makes it seem pretty damn obvious to me. Also, watch the spoilers there's been quite a few up-thread that aren't in tags.

I agree with this post entirely. Except for the part where you lead off the list of human mages with Bellurdan lol.

right... damn Fenn

[Tattersail_]

interesting theory about the three first swords, however, I don't think this would be what the writer is implying, it could be three people pivotal to the late empire period, maybe Karsa, grub and Kruppe? these are very random though, my favourite theory is grub, nil and nether but again this leaves no place for

Spoiler

sinn

in terms of people living longer I think that this world is massively different to our world so why would people live the same amount of years as us? the world is different and the populace is different, it is highly likely that their are people that live past 100, 200, 300. take the t'lan imass, they used a ritual but there are ones that didn't and are still alive, and the humans of wu descended from these didn't they? it is highly conceivable that the mortals of wu could live past 200.

although as someone said earlier, the only reason tattersails age was mentioned was because it was relevant to that scene

[ansible]

champooon, on 19 August 2010 - 11:34 AM, said:

ansible, on 19 August 2010 - 06:41 AM, said:

Mostly I agree with you, which is why I think it's odd that Tattersail was specifically mentioned to be over 200 years old.

Tattersail's age was only mentioned because it was directly involved in the story, her internal monologue in whether she was cradle snatching Paran, as she was comparing both their ages/experiences and whether it was suitable for them to get it on!

Paran is 22 or so at the time; whether Tattersail is 100 or 200 wouldn't make much relative difference. It's still got the potential for the old woman/young man stigma. It is rare that we see humans that live to be over 100 unless they are a mage or using alchemy. Yes, many important people end up living longer, but I'm talking about the average person. Someone said Dujek was 80; he wasn't young by any means, though probably more fit than the average real human who is 80.

Conversely, most of the mages we encounter are long-lived. I don't think anyone in this thread has ever made a statement to the contrary, including myself. It is indeed obvious, and I'm not sure where anyone got the idea that it was being questioned.

My question was simply how much longer mages usually live than normal humans. It's not ten years extra and it's not a thousand, but somewhere in between. I don't think we have a good sense of that number, which is why I asked.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

It probably depends on power levels. Being a mage is a hazardous occupation so its likely most die before they reach the end of what would have been their 'natural' lives.

[random marine doomed to die]

Sinn, Grub and

Spoiler

Temul (reading BH right now)

edited for spoiler syntax

This post has been edited by random marine doomed to die: 01 September 2010 - 01:18 AM

[waylander001]

random marine doomed to die, on 01 September 2010 - 01:15 AM, said:

Sinn, Grub and

Spoiler

Temul (reading BH right now)

edited for spoiler syntax

agree wholehearedly Marine, certainly a very viable option

for anyone wanting to know why read Bonehunters (page288 of transworld pprbck)

Spoiler

when standing outside the walls of y-gatan, Keneb remembers Grub "hinting of glory and/or infamy in Temuls future", then Gaul pronounces that "Coltaine walks in your shadow" to the lad in the same passage, but even more than that it's the feel of the passage as a whole, it shows Temul as now an adult Warleader and seems to hint at a future of military command for the young wickan

although not conclusive it certainly hints that he could have a profound part to play in the "late Empire" period .... and i have to disagree with some, I think the Wickans will have a large part to play in that part of the Empires history

This post has been edited by waylander001: 02 September 2010 - 11:15 PM

[random marine doomed to die]

Thanks Waylander, did not have the book in front of me. You got to it before I could.
That is exactly what I was thinking about.

This post has been edited by random marine doomed to die: 03 September 2010 - 02:50 AM

[ShadowRaven]

ansible, on 24 August 2010 - 10:20 PM, said:

My question was simply how much longer mages usually live than normal humans. It's not ten years extra and it's not a thousand, but somewhere in between. I don't think we have a good sense of that number, which is why I asked.

The way I've seen it is that they can (usually) live to around 300 years of age or so. Kellanved was somewhat over 200 years old when he ascended, and he was referred to as truly looking old. I think it was in DG where Cotillion says that although their magic enabled them to have longer lives, they had to ascend to reach their goals for which even an extended human lifespan wasn't enough.

Of course, all mages have different levels of knowledge which means there are special cases like Baruk and the other Torrud Cabal members. But since Baruk is a talented alchemist he might be able to make something similar to the Century Candles Kallor uses to keep himself 'immortal', so we can't say with absolute certainty what the 'average lifespan' of a mage is.

[waylander001]

random marine doomed to die, on 03 September 2010 - 02:49 AM, said:

Thanks Waylander, did not have the book in front of me. You got to it before I could.
That is exactly what I was thinking about.

Glad to pipe in!!

Some people have said BH is one of their least liked books, partly because "not much happens in that book" - but i beg to differ, the book is jam packed with information. I just came across the part where

Spoiler

apsalar is going through the Edur forest with Telorast and Curdle (right before she meets paran on the carrack) and they come across the place where the three dragons who are chained to the stones in Shadow Realm apparently fought in the past and left devestation in their wake. telorast and curdle also speak of Blackwood and Bloodwood in the same breath - i know there is a thread somewhere in the midnight tides forum querying this fact as a continuity error - but nope, erikson has mentioned it already

anyway - Bonehunters rocks!! and to think i was going to skip it to finish this 3rd re-read faster....

This post has been edited by waylander001: 03 September 2010 - 01:32 PM

[Tattersail_]

no book should be skipped. BH's is amazing. What about the ending as well, it rocks!

[waylander001]

Tattersail, on 03 September 2010 - 01:33 PM, said:

no book should be skipped. BH's is amazing. What about the ending as well, it rocks!

awesome does not even cover it

[random marine doomed to die]

Always thought MoI would be my favourite, because ... well Gruntle.
Just finished my reread of BH and now not so sure. The Bonehunters is top notch and might be my favouritre of the series.
(yes I have read all 11 + B&KB)